Dosing question

[John Vinson]

Wondering if I should start daily does for alkalinity, calcium and magnesium. I have a RSM250 and do a 10 gal water change once a week with the Red Sea coral pro salt (blue bucket = KH of 12).  I don't have a sump, calcium reactor or anything like that.....just the protein skimmer and the foam, bio filter, UV sterilizer and charcoal.  After the water change, alkalinity is around 10, but it drops about a point over the course of the week. I have a mixed reef with some SPSs (mostly Monti caps) and think they would benefit from some daily KH doses to keep it more stable over the week. However, I would need to adjust how much salt I added to the water change, otherwise the alkalinity would just keep rising to 12+, correct?  I am able to maintain the salinity right at 1.026 by adding 2.5 cups of salt for every 5 gallons of water in the water change (pH stays right around 8.2 as well).  

I believe I want to keep my alkalinity somewhere between 9-10, so does that mean I need to switch the salt I use?  If you're dosing, do you switch to a salt that doesn't have the other trace elements (so you only add salt to maintain the desired salinity, and the calcium, alkalinity and magnesium are added by your daily doses?).  I don't test calcium and magnesium as often as the alkalinity (I have a Hanna for that, and I'm lazy, which is why I do it more often than the others...heh).  Calcium is usually around 440-480, and my Magnesium test kit must have been bad (salifert...never got it to change colors), but I did take some water into the LFS and they came up with 1410 for magnesium.   As I understand it, if I start dosing alkalinity, I'll need to do the same for calcium (as one goes up the other goes down, or something like that, correct?)  I'm not sure how that affects magnesium or if it even matters, as every LFS I've talked to says it's all about maintaining a stable alkalinity level. 

For now, I would plan on manually dosing, and depending on how that goes and my travel schedule, I might consider upgrading to some sort of automated system (Apex?).  Looking forward to getting your thoughts on this...thanks in advance!

[islandVib3s]

If you plan on dosing everyday or other day and pulling it out everywhere it would be a waste imop. Dosing helps lessen the need for often water changes. I would test weekly and see whats being consumed before adding more in.hold on the weekly water changes to maybe everyother week and adjust from there. Some stuff says whats recommended for dosing but if its not being used up then its a waste and could have too many fluctuations which most corals hate. Stability is key my friend. 

[OregonGrownReef]

You won't adjust the salinity so it matches the alkalinity of the tank. This will lower every element in the tank as well, not just dKH. You can lower alkalinity in your new water by adding something like muriatic acid, but this has potential for disaster if not done right. In my opinion it's better for you to get a lower alkalinity salt mix and adjust it up with sodium bicarbonate to achieve desired results. Of course, this does mean you'll have to test and adjust every time you make new water. I keep my tanks at whatever the salt mixes up at for this reason. 

[OregonGrownReef]

This would be some beneficial reading regarding dosing. It may also be beneficial to read that entire guide. It's a lengthy read, but you'll save yourself from many headaches by doing so. The author is the man behind Bulk Reef Supply's 2 part formula and dosing calculators as well as probably the man who has single handedly helped tens of thousands if not more people keep corals in their tanks. 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/rhf/index.php

[Emerald525]

8 hours ago, OregonGrownReef said:

This would be some beneficial reading regarding dosing. It may also be beneficial to read that entire guide. It's a lengthy read, but you'll save yourself from many headaches by doing so. The author is the man behind Bulk Reef Supply's 2 part formula and dosing calculators as well as probably the man who has single handedly helped tens of thousands if not more people keep corals in their tanks. 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/rhf/index.php

This is a very good article. Reef chemistry is complex and I feel like over the years I gain a better understanding. Fortunately like the article states you don’t need to be a chemist to get your tank looking good. I got by with water changes with a smaller tank but if you are starting to add things like sps and lps that need calcium carbonate (aka alk aka DKH) it’s difficult to maintain with just water changes. 
I use All for Reef for my 25 lagoon and just need 7.5ml per day. 
One thing people don’t understand is sudden changes will discolor and kill your coral. A lower alk will just stunt the growth.  I don’t make rapid changes. I test weekly and if my alk is starting to drop then I just increase by 2.5ml and recheck in a week. 
 

Some of the experts are a little hesitant to recommend an all in one solution because you have less control but I find the less mixing , the more simplicity creates less human error and overall better results.

[Emerald525]

This guy really simplifies things.

 

[Gumby]

Another thing  to consider in keeping your alk that high is the adjustment the corals you buy from stores and people. In most cases their alk parameter will be between 7-9 dkh. So there will an adjustment for them into your system. 

[OregonGrownReef]

27 minutes ago, Gumby said:

Another thing  to consider in keeping your alk that high is the adjustment the corals you buy from stores and people. In most cases their alk parameter will be between 7-9 dkh. So there will an adjustment for them into your system. 

Great insight! I was going to say this, but I was looking at a wall of text I'd written and decided that I was saying too much, so I posted a link to that article instead. Haha. This is super important not just for new acquisitions into a tank, but also for selling, trading, or getting store credit. A person might get credit once, but they'll be less likely to take your corals if they die every time they go into a their tanks.

[John Vinson]

8 hours ago, OregonGrownReef said:

This would be some beneficial reading regarding dosing. It may also be beneficial to read that entire guide. It's a lengthy read, but you'll save yourself from many headaches by doing so. The author is the man behind Bulk Reef Supply's 2 part formula and dosing calculators as well as probably the man who has single handedly helped tens of thousands if not more people keep corals in their tanks. 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/rhf/index.php

Thanks for the feedback and the link, it was an interesting read and looks to be the type of guide I'm looking for.  From what I can tell, I'd like to see about doing something similar to what he does (especially if I can just add the stuff to my ATO and have it dose that way).  He doses limewater, as well as calcium and magnesium (and mentions dosing the limewater into his ATO, but doesn't say if he adds the calcium and magnesium that way as well).  He's still doing small water changes (1% daily) and adds some salt, but if I can reduce the amount/frequency of water changes I wouldn't have a problem with that either!  

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Given your system and its consumption, I would switch salt mixes to something more closely approximating seawater and slowly let your tank move down to 7-8 DKH.  I honestly never understood the high "REEF SALT" mixes.  The DKH is way outside what typical sps keepers keep their tanks.  As someone mentioned above.. the risk of high alk (among other things) is that you can have a hard time getting things INTO your system without shocking the bejezuus out of them.  

Switch salts and then dose maybe a two part maybe once a week.   Always calibrate and check your salinity when making water changes.  Changes in salinity makes BIG differences in cal and alk. 

[John Vinson]

6 minutes ago, pdxmonkeyboy said:

Given your system and its consumption, I would switch salt mixes to something more closely approximating seawater and slowly let your tank move down to 7-8 DKH.  I honestly never understood the high "REEF SALT" mixes.  The DKH is way outside what typical sps keepers keep their tanks.  As someone mentioned above.. the risk of high alk (among other things) is that you can have a hard time getting things INTO your system without shocking the bejezuus out of them.  

Switch salts and then dose maybe a two part maybe once a week.   Always calibrate and check your salinity when making water changes.  Changes in salinity makes BIG differences in cal and alk. 

This is exactly what I was thinking I need to do.  How would you recommend the salt switch happen?  Maybe start out doing a mix of 2.5 cups each of the two types of salts to begin with for a few weeks, then switch to the new salt entirely - or does it need to be even more subtle, like 1 cup new, 4 cups old first and do that for a few weeks, then 2 new, 3 old, followed by 4 new, 1 old, etc?  Or is that even necessary, can the switch be as abrupt as the next water change (provided I'm testing constantly and ready to dose, should the levels drop too quickly?) 

[obrien.david.j]

Might you have a typo in your intro post?

... do a 10 gal water change once a week with the Red Sea coral pro salt (blue bucket = KH of 12). 

My history is the red sea PRO has the high KH, but is the Black bucket.  I was using this salt, and had the same Higher Alk scenario as well.    I switched to Red Sea (BLUE) bucket, with lower KH, and am running fine now.  

Which salt are you using?

[pdxmonkeyboy]

I would say the bucket is purple... Anyways.  All those high DKH salts should be called "sea-saw" blends as they are kind of marketed as a dosing when you do a water change which is never a super great plan.   You could do a 50/50 salt blend for a couple weeks and then switch over to the new salt.  Unless you have a lot of SPS you should be fine.  Even then, I think that the negative effects of a 1 or 2 bump in DKH are over stated.  Unless you have a lot of mari-cultured stuff you should be fine. 

 

[John Vinson]

2 hours ago, obrien.david.j said:

Might you have a typo in your intro post?

... do a 10 gal water change once a week with the Red Sea coral pro salt (blue bucket = KH of 12). 

My history is the red sea PRO has the high KH, but is the Black bucket.  I was using this salt, and had the same Higher Alk scenario as well.    I switched to Red Sea (BLUE) bucket, with lower KH, and am running fine now.  

Which salt are you using?

I must be using the black bucket....I'm colorblind, so it's all the same to me

If I do start dosing and switch salts, any recommendations on the salt to switch to?  Instant Ocean Sea Salt?

Edited August 26, 2021 by John Vinson

[obrien.david.j]

The heck with color.  I started with red sea "Coral Pro Salt" too (left side of my pict), and switched to "Red Sea Salt" (right side of my pict) because my KH was too high.   I stuck with the same brand of salt, under the idea of minimizing overall changes.   That logic may have been junk, but I did it.

[Emerald525]

1 hour ago, John Vinson said:

I must be using the black bucket....I'm colorblind, so it's all the same to me

If I do start dosing and switch salts, any recommendations on the salt to switch to?  Instant Ocean Sea Salt?

I would just go with the Red Sea and not the coral pro. Like David Obrien mentioned.