Webbed Feet Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 Hi, BRS shows a method of using accelerated gel/thick superglue for adhesive for the basic design when aquascaping, followed by a marine grade cement for final stabilization of sections, then using a soupy cement brushed over that marine grade cement with some sand pressed on to cover the cemented areas for aesthetics. Have any of your used something else other than superglue for the initial adhesive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obrien.david.j Posted December 26, 2023 Share Posted December 26, 2023 I've followed the described BRS method directly. Thick superglue, then sprayed with Insta-set accelerator. Then later coated by Marco cement to give long term stability. Only thing I'd say is make sure these structures get washed thoroughly before going into a tank. I sprayed a lot of insta set, and want it washed off. In general, this method worked great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gumby Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 (edited) After using the mortar and thick super glue. I have bought the thinner superglue for the spots that are to reach. Gives it just a little bit more strength in some spots. Also for cosmetic look. You can spead a small over the mortar spots and throw some rock dust or sand on it. This is a piece I made out small 3-4" pieces. Edited December 27, 2023 by Gumby Added pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbed Feet Posted December 28, 2023 Author Share Posted December 28, 2023 Thank you for the tips! I started creating 1 to 5 inch rubble this afternoon after making a mock up of the inside of the tank for visual reference. One question I have, how many inches below the water line of the tank would you recommend keeping the top most part of rock sculptures under? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obrien.david.j Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 17 hours ago, Webbed Feet said: One question I have, how many inches below the water line of the tank would you recommend keeping the top most part of rock sculptures under? I think it depends on what you want to keep, intensity of lights (or lack of intensity) and design style. I'm an SPS keeper. They grow, and then they grow tall. Biggest mistake I've made, building the rocks up high so they look nice without any livestock, planting corals, and then having them all live in the upper 1/4 of the water column. Tank looked top heavy. My current setup, the bare rockwork got negative ratings from family and friends for the first year. 25" tall tank, rocks generally didn't go taller than 12-14". Top half of the tank looked empty. 2yrs later, lots of growth later, tank looks good - to my taste. While SPS were growing, I added taller gorgonians to fill in and give motion. To your original question, how many inches from top of rocks to water line... Start with, what do you want to plant on top of those rocks? it will add height too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbed Feet Posted December 29, 2023 Author Share Posted December 29, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, obrien.david.j said: I think it depends on what you want to keep, .... <snip> Biggest mistake I've made, building the rocks up high ........all live in the upper 1/4 of the water column. Tank looked top heavy. <snip> 25" tall tank, rocks generally didn't go taller than 12-14". Top half of the tank looked empty. 2yrs later, lots of growth later, tank looks good <snip> .... Start with, what do you want to plant on top of those rocks? it will add height too Thanks David, kinda confirms what I've had on my mind. Reefing isn't a great hobby for those wanting instant gratification. The tank setup I've been working on should be more than capable of handling hard corals. The greater question is am I capable of having hard corals? Regardless, I'll keep the design 14 inches and under with doing my best to design in many varying heights to select from as I decide on corals. I guess my only good answer on what I want in corals is I do not want any that grow like weeds and take over entire areas in the aquarium or can be so toxic they just don't play well in the sandbox or make friends at all. I have lots to learn. Edited December 29, 2023 by Webbed Feet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtarmitage Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 If keeping SPS, it's generally a good idea to leave 50% open above the rockwork, but with LPS you have more room to create multiple levels and go higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefrun Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 My biggest regret is building my aquascape too high in half the tank. I’d also recommend drilling holes to put frag plugs in.. I’m doing that with a new scape and super excited about it Make sure you keep in mind where you’ll have your flow too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbed Feet Posted January 2 Author Share Posted January 2 6 hours ago, reefrun said: My biggest regret is building my aquascape too high in half the tank. I’d also recommend drilling holes to put frag plugs in.. I’m doing that with a new scape and super excited about it Make sure you keep in mind where you’ll have your flow too Are you using a concrete drill bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krux Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Their newer video swaps the concrete for two part epoxy, might watch that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandVib3s Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 I've usually used superglue . Thick and thin. Sometimes I'll use epoxy sticks for heavier places. I havent used the cements but I've seen some good ones. I usually finished with thick glue and just added dry sand over the top to hide crevices or epoxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krux Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) Here is the HNSA build video if you want to give it a watch... quite long but he talks through the thought and process. I like this build as it takes time to think about creating appropriate habitat for tank inhabitants. If I had the time I would convert to this methodology and build out a complete structure set like he did. In particular making sure there are appropriate sized hiding spaces and swim through parts, building it in sections that can be removed completely, and taking into account how flow will move through the structure. Edited January 2 by Krux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbed Feet Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 7 hours ago, Krux said: Here is the HNSA build video if you want to give it a watch... quite long but he talks through the thought and process. I like this build as it takes time to think about creating appropriate habitat for tank inhabitants. If I had the time I would convert to this methodology and build out a complete structure set like he did. In particular making sure there are appropriate sized hiding spaces and swim through parts, building it in sections that can be removed completely, and taking into account how flow will move through the structure. Krux, did you catch the part where he stated he used 28 tubes of epoxy and then at the end corrected that to be "only" 20 tubes? SORRY BRS!!!! But with the cost of the rock, the two types of superglue (thick and thin), the 5 bottles of accelerator, 20 tubes of epoxy, we have an aquascape approaching $600 to $800 or so. $300 in epoxy tubes. Yes, "just" the cost of one high end light. I like all of the other pointers as you do Krux. But I'm wondering if there are not other ways to wonderfully bond rocks safely for aquarium reefs without purchasing reef supply vendor's products to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krux Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) The investment isn't couch change to be sure, but it can be replicated for way less I believe. The quantity he went through was for a scape that had very significant overhangs which used multiple tubes per rock - if one didn't go quite that crazy on the gravity defiance it wouldn't be as big a deal. IO Holdfast is about 10 bucks a tube, I would be surprised if more than 10 was needed for a moderate sized aquarium based on past rockwork I have done. I think cement/mortar will work fine, it is just messy and you don't get the chance to really shape it where you need it and then imprint rock texture on it to make it disappear. I think @Gumby did a great job on that rock with mortar and superglue! I imagine that doing the rock for my WB 190 would be around $1500 to make it perfect, but I am not prepared to make that investment either 😛 Edited January 3 by Krux 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefsakes Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 I use brs thick super glue and quick set to initially bond pieces together. Then once I know I'm done with the piece. I go over all the bonded joints with emarco mortar. It holds together super well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbed Feet Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 Has anyone tried a hot glue gun and hot glue adhesives? I am pursuing information in the area. Great Article Hot Glue I have asked this company to comment on environmentally safe hot glues for strong bonds involving drinking water and/or enclosed aquarium-saltwater environment usage concerning fish and corals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obrien.david.j Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 14 hours ago, Reefsakes said: I use brs thick super glue and quick set to initially bond pieces together. Then once I know I'm done with the piece. I go over all the bonded joints with emarco mortar. It holds together super well. This is how I did my rockwork. Cost me about $80 in supplies. Bought some from BRS, some from Amazon. (based on cost and availability) Insta-set Super Glue Accelerator Extra Thick Gel Super Glue (8 or 10oz bottle) E-Marco-400 Aquascaping Mortar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefsakes Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 8 hours ago, Webbed Feet said: Has anyone tried a hot glue gun and hot glue adhesives? I am pursuing information in the area. Great Article Hot Glue I have asked this company to comment on environmentally safe hot glues for strong bonds involving drinking water and/or enclosed aquarium-saltwater environment usage concerning fish and corals. For small micro scapes it may work but not for large pieces. Ask me how I know lol. I've tried a bunch of different ways to bond and the method I explained earlier is the best solution from my experiments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbed Feet Posted January 11 Author Share Posted January 11 On 1/3/2024 at 11:36 AM, Reefsakes said: For small micro scapes it may work but not for large pieces. Ask me how I know lol. I've tried a bunch of different ways to bond and the method I explained earlier is the best solution from my experiments. I am currently trying what you have Reefsakes. All working pretty well. Takes quite a bit of time. I cannot say I have felt following the BRS method of first creating a scape 100% with superglue and then after following with epoxy or reef cement is the best idea. I've found I immediately want to final bond my base rock with epoxy or cement before I start building on top of it. As far as your hot glue experiments, have you ever tried Infinity PUR MP75 Multi-Purpose Polyurethane with PUR specific designed glue gun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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