Unhappy acros

[Jeff.Tichenor]

Most of my acropora are not very happy and I don't know why. Some are receding at the base. One is getting burned tips and is not in high par. Others have lost color in the tips. One has browned out in the mid section.

ICP isn't showing anything major.

The only thing I can think of is ph went too high. How high is too high? Probe calibration checked. 

[Jeff.Tichenor]

Alk is ~8.5, NO3 is 13, PO4 is .11, Ca is 450, Mg is 1425.

[Jeff.Tichenor]

The only other events that have happened over the past couple months are 1) Started stirring up the sandbed every couple weeks - it's shallow. About .5 -1" deep. Its was pretty dirty initially. And 2) mounted about 20 frags and small sps colonies about 4 weeks ago. Used about 1.25 sticks of epoxy. 

Not running carbon. Do 20% water changes every 2 weeks.

[Leonardomanzano]

perhaps it's an infection or organic substance in the water column that is irritating them?

If the ICP results are within acceptable ranges I would assume it's something the ICP test isn't seeing or testing for.

Your alkalinity could also be playing a role in this, but I am not sure as we are looking at a lot of data so maybe the graph makes it look more volatile than it really is.

I don't have any acros or sps in my tank so I would personally wait for someone who has gone through something similar and could provide more insight as to what it could be!

[svt_guido]

This happened to me when I did about 20 hours of 3D printing. Is there any chance fumes may have gotten into the tank.?.

[obrien.david.j]

Sorry to hear your SPS are unhappy.    I have my ups and downs, and can be frustrating.   I'm also not a guru on understanding the conditions and zero'ing in on issues/improvement paths.   Maybe @Lexinverts or @CuttleFishandCoral or @goldenbasketreef will chime in.

I don't see any problems with your Alk (~8.5), NO3/PO4/Ca/Mg.  I too wonder how high pH can get before it's a problem, but I don't see people running >= 8.5 often - so I'd treat it as possible/likely antagonist.

When I hit mysteries i try to address possible stressors.    Activated Carbon is always on my list of <use fresh carbon in case there's something weird in my water>.   At the same time, possibly backing off lighting duration for a few weeks.  What additives are you doing?   Any Aminos - Every time I try these it's like playing with fire.  (so I currently don't add, but have plenty of other coral feeding sources)     I know this input feels generic.

Key question, are SPS the only things unhappy - is everything else looking fine?   Your description doesn't sounds like it, but I cant tell.  Losing color, burnt tips, recession at the base.    I'm starting to think Bacterial when my SPS get unhappy alone.    (thread attached below)    

Attaching my Alk and pH trends, so you can compare.  BTW, my Calcium Reactor is controlled against a Alk target of 9.0.  (Alk measured every 6hrs, via Trident)   I get the biggest daily swings after I refill my Kalk reactor with CaOH - which is applied during daily ATO cycle between Midnight-7am.

My RTN/STN thread

 

 

[Jeff.Tichenor]

8 hours ago, svt_guido said:

This happened to me when I did about 20 hours of 3D printing. Is there any chance fumes may have gotten into the tank.?.

Thanks. It's possible. We have a house cleaning crew come every couple weeks and they go a little crazy with all-purpose cleaners. 

[Jeff.Tichenor]

Thanks, @obrien.david.j. I run kalk, brs soda ash, Tropic marin A & K & part C, brs calcium, brs mag.

I've been adding acro power manually weekly for several months. I ran out about 4 weeks ago and now adding Redsea AB every few days.

Correct, my other corals are doing fine - digis, gonis, montis, lps, torches, etc. Even slimers are fine. Only acros unhappy.

[obrien.david.j]

23 minutes ago, Jeff.Tichenor said:

Thanks, @obrien.david.j. I run kalk, brs soda ash, Tropic marin A & K & part C, brs calcium, brs mag.

I've been adding acro power manually weekly for several months. I ran out about 4 weeks ago and now adding Redsea AB every few days.

Correct, my other corals are doing fine - digis, gonis, montis, lps, torches, etc. Even slimers are fine. Only acros unhappy.

I got into into trouble big time in 2021 when I started adding RedSea AB.   I'm now gunshy.

And How Do you get your pH soo high?   Are you running 100% of ATO through Kalk (I am), and doing it throughout the day?   Any other wisdom? 

In my case, my ambient CO2 is almost always <500.   Sump/Skimmer/etc is all connected to outside fresh air via the garage.   So no stuffyness.

[Jeff.Tichenor]

@obrien.david.j I dose kalk at night for about 85% of my evaporation. My skimmer recirculates for smell reduction. I do not use co2 scrubber media. My ph goes up when I air out my home in the morning where my co2 level gets to 400, the lowest my meter goes.

I also use an algae scrubber 24x7.

The drop in ph you see in my graph above is when I stopped airing out the house to purposely drop the ph. My home co2 is now 550-850.

I do not use a calcium reactor which also helps keep ph up.

[obrien.david.j]

1 minute ago, Jeff.Tichenor said:

I do not use a calcium reactor which also helps keep ph up.

Bingo.  Key difference between us.

[The ReefBox]

Hey J  what are your nutrient levels   I have been looking at your alk trends and you have swung nearly a point in the 23-25th time frame  it doesn’t always happen in just burned tips especially nutrients are in  line but acro health can be compromised by that swing in all kinds of ways   I had an alk issue a few weeks ago and lost an ORA Hawkins colony overnight. Started from base up.  Not sure if this is your issue but Alk is usually the culprit   Got pics?  Sure there are no bites from AEFW? 

[elperron]

1 hour ago, obrien.david.j said:

I got into into trouble big time in 2021 when I started adding RedSea AB.   I'm now gunshy.

And How Do you get your pH soo high?   Are you running 100% of ATO through Kalk (I am), and doing it throughout the day?   Any other wisdom? 

In my case, my ambient CO2 is almost always <500.   Sump/Skimmer/etc is all connected to outside fresh air via the garage.   So no stuffyness.

What kind of trouble with AB?

[Jeff.Tichenor]

32 minutes ago, The ReefBox said:

Hey J  what are your nutrient levels   I have been looking at your alk trends and you have swung nearly a point in the 23-25th time frame  it doesn’t always happen in just burned tips especially nutrients are in  line but acro health can be compromised by that swing in all kinds of ways   I had an alk issue a few weeks ago and lost an ORA Hawkins colony overnight. Started from base up.  Not sure if this is your issue but Alk is usually the culprit   Got pics?  Sure there are no bites from AEFW? 

My nutrients stay pretty close to what I posted above. 

Good callout on the alk swing 6/23-6/26. I believe that's when things started to alert me with the decrease in alk consumption. I manually adjust my alk dose and it took a couple days to get it under control with a significant reduction. Looking closer at that range it looks more like a .6 swing:

My main concern was AEFW but as much as I look I'm not seeing any bite marks.

 

My other guess is it may have been leeching of the chemicals from the epoxy. There was a little over a stick used in about 3hrs without running carbon on June 22nd - right when the alk consumption started dropping.

The slow reactions may all stem from this day.

[Jeff.Tichenor]

Browned in center

 

This myogi tort is the worst

 

notice the white base and pale/white core on this one

[Jeff.Tichenor]

Thankfully, this Pink Cadillac from the growout last winter is doing fine.

[obrien.david.j]

3 hours ago, elperron said:

What kind of trouble with AB?

I wasn't watching things carefully, but I attribute my AB usage to a nutrient freefall, recovery, freefall, Cyano outbreak, Dino outbreak, ...  Basically destabilized, and I wasn't watching.    I Now Watch!   Moved to Moonshiners, add bacteria, Phyto, regular testing, ...   Things I wasn't before.

[obrien.david.j]

2 hours ago, Jeff.Tichenor said:

This myogi tort is the worst

I have a miyagi tort and a WWC yellow tip tort that both started doing a little of the same thing.  Not this extensive, but started a bit of the same way.  Stopped, hasn't progressed.

[Lexinverts]

Looking at all of the data here, the high pH is the only thing that jumps out at me. I would try to keep your pH between 8.3 and 8.5. You might have stressed the corals with the high pH and now you have some bacterial infections jumping around the tank. Correct the pH and monitor closely.

[obrien.david.j]

1 hour ago, Lexinverts said:

Looking at all of the data here, the high pH is the only thing that jumps out at me. I would try to keep your pH between 8.3 and 8.5. You might have stressed the corals with the high pH and now you have some bacterial infections jumping around the tank. Correct the pH and monitor closely.

... and now you have some bacterial infections...   I point you to my RTN thread.   I'm liking this treatment.

[CuttleFishandCoral]

Ur tank is still relatively new. Adding those large colonies on a newer system could be causing issues. Adding frags will probably do better than large colonies. It takes at least a year for a tank to reach fully maturity. 
 

Maybe look at adding some of aquabiomic bacteria or boosting the bio diversity. 
 

One of the most frustrating parts in this hobby is having things die for no apparent reason. 

Sorry u are going through this, but at least u dont have radiant horizon anymore. lol 

[Jeff.Tichenor]

I decided to try the Oxalinic Acid treatment for a potential bacterial infection.

I am using the same dosage as others have tried, 0.5gr per 10 gallons. So 8 grams for my 160 gallon system per treatment. I am treating it 3 times, every other day.

Treatments were done without any mechanical filtration or skimming. UV was off and no carbon or GFO was in use. I did leave the algae scrubber on. I turned back on the skimmer and filter roller 24hrs after each treatment.

I just finished the third and treatment yesterday. Later today I will do a 20% water change. I'll probably do another 20% water change in a couple days unless nutrient levels are too low.

[obrien.david.j]

4 hours ago, Jeff.Tichenor said:

I decided to try the Oxalinic Acid treatment for a potential bacterial infection.

I am using the same dosage as others have tried, 0.5gr per 10 gallons. So 8 grams for my 160 gallon system per treatment. I am treating it 3 times, every other day.

Treatments were done without any mechanical filtration or skimming. UV was off and no carbon or GFO was in use. I did leave the algae scrubber on. I turned back on the skimmer and filter roller 24hrs after each treatment.

I just finished the third and treatment yesterday. Later today I will do a 20% water change. I'll probably do another 20% water change in a couple days unless nutrient levels are too low.

Any noticable Negative effects?

[islandVib3s]

I think @CuttleFishandCoralis spot on. Using carbon is a must when fragging or adding corals because they release there own toxins from being irritated.  I've personally spent around 2k on acro frags in the last 4months and lost a ton, i believe its become bio diversity and age. So im taking a break for now on the acros. Only other thing i can think of that does slow or fast damage is temp stability.  Good luck either way. Side note AB+ has aminos in it. 

[Jeff.Tichenor]

1 hour ago, obrien.david.j said:

Any noticable Negative effects?

Not yet. 🤞