magflake not safe anymore???

[izzypop]

so would you guys still use magflake if ryans bag-o-mag was not around after reading that statement?

I don't know how ro/di got in here but it is safe to drink that is "forum" info not real info.

[R2R2]

Hey Fellas, let's all just take it easy. None of us want to admit that we got in a fight while chatting on the reef tank forum. Geek, the way you post causes others to take offense. Even if this is not your goal, you are responsible for it and need to adjust the way you are saying the things you are saying. The rest of us need to take this into account when we read posts by reefgeek. If he is trying to bait us into arguement, don't take the bait. I choose to believe he expresses himself in a manner that comes across as offensive, but means no harm. Either way, if we avoid arguement and stay on topic, we get the best outcome. Let's all try.

As for the topic of harmful additives, if a substance is "food grade", or "consumption grade", it is free of certain toxic elements and production residue, and must be labeled as such. "Lab grade" is generally the most pure, but may be in a form or concentration that is less desireable for use in our aquariums. I would suspect the disclaimer on the Magflake is a "cover your own arse" measure intended to protect the company and allow them to offer a black and white answer to the small segment of their market that was flooding them with questions about using their product in aquariums. On the other hand, they could easily be protecting a customer like Kent, Seachem, or Warner Marine, that buys the product from them and doesn't want everybody else doing the same. The pet industry has done this sort of thing before. Ryan

[reefgeek84]

so would you guys still use magflake if ryans bag-o-mag was not around after reading that statement?

I don't know how ro/di got in here but it is safe to drink that is "forum" info not real info.

 

It got into...cause I was commenting on tap water being safe for human comsumption, but yet everyone recommends an RO/DI for any tank...so that tells me that not everything that is human safe is aquarium safe.

[reefgeek84]

Geek' date=' the way you post causes others to take offense. Even if this is not your goal, you are responsible for it and need to adjust the way you are saying the things you are saying. The rest of us need to take this into account when we read posts by reefgeek. If he is trying to bait us into arguement, don't take the bait.[/quote']

 

I will not adjust how I say anything!!!! Just because there are some people on here that are way to overly sensitive, does not mean I need to adjust anything I do or say. I did not use any bad words and profane words or any sort. I simply stated a thought...so if I go by this mentality, I will just start posting anything that I want, whether it be true or not, and when someone calls me on it, I will just whine about it and say the person that disagrees with me is just being rude and trying to pick a fight.

[R2R2]

Take it easy geek, these discussions don't require a winner, only arguements have a winner and a looser(and usually all that argue are loosers). Ryan

[reefgeek84]

Take it easy geek' date=' these discussions don't require a winner, only arguements have a winner and a looser(and usually all that argue are loosers). Ryan[/quote']

 

Not excited nor trying to win anything...Just defend myself...

[dsoz]

I think the reason that RO/DI water is not "safe" for human consumption is that humans NEED trace elements that are found in natural water. RO/DI units take these traces out. Humans would have a hard time coming up with some of these traces if they ONLY drink RO/DI water. A one time drink would not be harmful.

 

These same trace elements are in every high quality salt that we buy. They are being added every time we water change. That is why it is fine to use RO/DI water, as long as the salt adds back the stuff that is needed by our animals.

 

The whole point of this is to give our animals the highest quality of life that we can. That is why I will not drop a bunch of MiracleGro into my aquarium when I get home tonight. That would be considered "bad." I will, however, use that same MiracleGro on my garden tonight. That would be considered "good." Two different situations, two different solutions.

 

Magflake may or may not be food grade. Does that make it "good" or "bad"? IDK. I have not had a tank long enough to wory about starting to dose. Maybe the company was tired of having questions from people with aquariums about the quality control, how much nitrate, how much phosphate in EVERY batch. So they just made a blanket statment that it should not be used in aquariums.

 

That is my $0.02

 

dsoz

[Lowman]

well it's been a while since we had a good ole fashioned family fight.

[izzypop]

this is from spectapure on drinking ro/di

 

We usually direct this question to this report by the World Health Organization (WHO) detailing the dis-advantages of drinking de-mineralized water.

 

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/chemicals/tds.pdf

 

 

For the other side of this coin, see this and other articles put out by the Water Quality Association (WQA) that basically claim that taking out ALL the "crap" in tap water out-weighs the loss of calcium and magnesium. They say you should get these and other minerals from food.

 

http://www.wqa.org/sitelogic.cfm?ID=1729

[izzypop]

to flip the coin : if it's good enough for our reef shouldn't it be safe for us? MAG-FIGHT , MAG-FIGHT , MAG-FIGHT

[Nyles]

You go ahead and mix up your water to all the proper levels and drink it.... I will take your word on it. Probably pass some knarley kidney stones.

[R2R2]

oh yeah....

 

There is very little lost to drinking RO/DI water. At a TDS of 50ppm, solids only account for .005% of the total volume and of these solids, few would be nutrients.(not that this thread really has anything to do with RO/DI water, but if we are going to run this point into the ground, then let's do it right!) R2

[Nyles]

I think we are way beyond off topic... LOL, now lets make him drink some more skimmate.

[CCR]

ANYBODY EVER............THINK. Why the members are not growing. Why so many have left. Why Board members rairly post at all. Why I'm on other sites MORE than this. SAME CRAP, DIFFERENT DAY

 

What's wrong with. this club. No that's not a question.

[izzypop]

i'll drink needlewheel skimmate all day long thats like a cup of tea, I'll put some mag flake pellets in there for nutrients so I won't die from the DI but I may die from the impurities in the magflake.

it's the beckett skimmate that is way nasty. (Ohhh no he didn't go there...)

 

Seriously I just started this thread for informational purposes and that's it.

[reefgeek84]

ANYBODY EVER............THINK. Why the members are not growing. Why so many have left. Why Board members rairly post at all. Why I'm on other sites MORE than this. SAME CRAP, DIFFERENT DAY

 

What's wrong with. this club. No that's not a question.

 

Then what would keep you on this site...there is a thread for this, why don't you post in there and see what can be done about it.

 

As for no growth on the club, that is not true, there has been major growth in this club since it opened again.

[izzypop]

ANYBODY EVER............THINK. Why the members are not growing. Why so many have left. Why Board members rairly post at all. Why I'm on other sites MORE than this. SAME CRAP, DIFFERENT DAY

 

What's wrong with. this club. No that's not a question.

 

You ever think you take things way to serious? it's all conversation. People are learning things and the "why can't we just get along" thing gets old already.....

[Nyles]

i'll drink needlewheel skimmate all day long thats like a cup of tea, I'll put some mag flake pellets in there for nutrients so I won't die from the DI but I may die from the impurities in the magflake.

it's the beckett skimmate that is way nasty. (Ohhh no he didn't go there...)

 

Seriously I just started this thread for informational purposes and that's it.

 

Sweet, we got a deal, I will bring one un-tainted gallon of needlewheel skimmate to the next meet for ya and yes you can sweeten it up with some sugar if you like foofy stuff. (clap) We can sell tickets at $5 each to watch... all donations to the club of course.

[Lowman]

I want a ticket too.

[CCR]

Then what would keep you on this site...there is a thread for this, why don't you post in there and see what can be done about it.

 

As for no growth on the club, that is not true, there has been major growth in this club since it opened again.

 

And where EXACTLY should I post. Loaded question so just the thread

[CCR]

You ever think you take things way to serious? it's all conversation. People are learning things and the "why can't we just get along" thing gets old already.....

Hmmmm. Should read"Why do we have so many active members that Don't post here anymore"

[albertareef]

As for the topic of harmful additives, if a substance is "food grade", or "consumption grade", it is free of certain toxic elements and production residue, and must be labeled as such. "Lab grade" is generally the most pure, but may be in a form or concentration that is less desireable for use in our aquariums.

 

Wow... I missed all the excitement!

 

I think this point by Ryan is an important one to follow up on. As he indicates, lab grade is, in fact, more pure in terms of chemical content (typically % by weight) while consumption grade indicates freedom from toxic (for humans) components - or rather their presence below certain thresholds.

 

Unfortunately, the higher purity of lab grade does not necessarily translate to safe usage for hobbyists since the remaining impurities, although at very low levels by percentage, could be very toxic to certain organisms. This is compounded by the fact that, in order to reach the desired level of purity, some chemicals are subjected to purification schemes that introduce highly toxic elements as a byproduct - albeit at very low levels (by weight). So... while lab grade might be great for insuring fidelity of chemical reactions in a lab setting (what it is designed for), it might be bad news in a reef because of it's particular "contaminant". Likewise, while consumption grade might be generally safe for us to use in food, its relatively higher levels of impurities could increase the risk of adding something you will regret!

 

Unfortunately, this means there is probably no good rule of thumb to go by other than other peoples' experience with individual products or a manufactures' willingness to certify a product for expressed purposes.

 

Apologies for the lengthy disrcourse but I think this is an important and interesting question.... and obviously one that generates some strong opinions! Skimmate anyone?!?!?

[chewie]

Oh, I see now. This thread is LOADED with flames(nutty) (scratch)

 

You guys should have seen the posts at R.D.O. or RC in the religion/politics arena. THAT was flaming(flame)

 

CCR,

 

Simma down big fella. I'd hate to see people leave because of something as goofy as this.

 

Steveweast said it best. It's CYA!

[WAVES]

Unfortunately, the higher purity of lab grade does not necessarily translate to safe usage for hobbyists since the remaining impurities, although at very low levels by percentage, could be very toxic to certain organisms. This is compounded by the fact that, in order to reach the desired level of purity, some chemicals are subjected to purification schemes that introduce highly toxic elements as a byproduct - albeit at very low levels (by weight). So... while lab grade might be great for insuring fidelity of chemical reactions in a lab setting (what it is designed for), it might be bad news in a reef because of it's particular "contaminant". Likewise, while consumption grade might be generally safe for us to use in food, its relatively higher levels of impurities could increase the risk of adding something you will regret!

 

QUOTE]

 

The one thing I see you getting in food grade vs mag flake is consistancy. Mag flake could change in every batch, I would guess that food grade mag would be more carefully monitored.

[albertareef]

The one thing I see you getting in food grade vs mag flake is consistancy. Mag flake could change in every batch, I would guess that food grade mag would be more carefully monitored.

 

Interesting point... I honestly don't know the details on food testing so well (anyone out there?) but for many reagent grade chemicals, you can get batch or lot specific analysis that list all detectable trace elements and their levels - which is one reason they can be rather expensive - vs. more generic lab grade chemicals which simply guarantee the presence of the listed chemical at XX %. So... with the latter, you could indeed have some pretty big lot variations in terms of the composition and not know about it. Hopefully, someone else can comment on the standards for human consumption items (testing frequency, parameters) but I think it might be more a matter of guaranteing what isn't in there (eg. toxic chemicals, harmful bacteria, etc.) than defining what is. The complication being "toxic" defined by human standards.

 

I really have no axe to grind in this - just thought it was an interesting philosophical question.... and one with no clear cut "right" answer from my perspective.