Heavy weight entering into reef tank fixture market

[goldenbasketreef]

Check this annoucement from Philips:

 

http://www.philips.co.uk/c-m-li/coralcare

 

Before putting up for sale to the public, Philips conducted ongoing study to compare this led fixture to T5 for growing corals.

 

http://images.consumerproducts.philips.com/Web/PhilipsConsumerLifestyle/%7B883e5b3b-b8bd-44bd-8666-e67edeba6f46%7D_CoralCare_LED_unit_-_Preliminary_Field_Test_Report_-_FINAL_v2.pdf?elqTrackId=d1902c43043547c99c55a620f76bbe01&elq=5d382ca9f6b24aef86a62bc69d2e781b&elqCampaignId=&elqaid=12591&elqat=1

 

Will be interesting to see the final product.

Very tightly space & low wattage for even spread and passive cooling.

 

[softy]

heck yeah!!  some real RnD it looks like!!

[StayPuff]

I signed up for the news letter and read all the findings.

 

The problem i have and with most results is i need to see actuall users use these things.

           I know when i was running tests on my product i had 6 failed attemtps then the 7th was success so forget the 6 bad ones we posted the one good one.

 

Things can be misleading with all new products im just walk a thin line until i see the people use it.

 

What they need to do is give this out to 200 people for free and let all 200 people coment after a month now thats the best write up anyone can give

 

Anyhow ill keep my eye on there newsletter. Thanks for posting

[Trigger334]

Can't really see what's so special about it. Nothing really new?

 

Osram Olson and TMC paired up like 2 years ago to release the first and still patent leading emitter specially reef designed to have high energy, but be the appearance of a natural reef. No more dark blue. They called it Nature Perfect. Either the Reef White version or Ocean Blue.

 

Plus, they have low watts, passive cooling, IP67 waterproof, high standard for dimming/color adjustment, and the longest warranty out for any aquatic LEDs (5 year). Probably just trying to get out in the US market as something new?

[Lexinverts]

Can't really see what's so special about it. Nothing really new?

 

Osram Olson and TMC paired up like 2 years ago to release the first and still patent leading emitter specially reef designed to have high energy, but be the appearance of a natural reef. No more dark blue. They called it Nature Perfect. Either the Reef White version or Ocean Blue.

 

Plus, they have low watts, passive cooling, IP67 waterproof, high standard for dimming/color adjustment, and the longest warranty out for any aquatic LEDs (5 year). Probably just trying to get out in the US market as something new?

 

What's special about it is that they would be the largest company to produce an LED light for growing corals that I am aware of. They already make the Luxeon LEDs, which are top of the line. If they could offer a high quality LED fixture at a halfway decent price (because of production volume) this would be a great addition to the LED market for reefers. And perhaps a top quality competitor would result in AI, Ecotech, TMC, etc... lowering their prices a little bit.

[TheClark]

I am interested in the no lense approach as a method to combat LED shadowing.  The LANI LEDs from triton are similar in this approach.  May just have to pop the lenses off of one of the frag tank fixtures for fun...

[TheClark]

Done!  Seven minutes later... will equalize out par tomorrow with dimmer knobs when whites are on too...

[earthbound]

No lenses and more diodes = better light saturation and even growth IMO. It has been proven leds can provide enough light 24" down without lenses for sps growth. It will require a higher diode density per square foot than most fixtures currently on the market to achive optimal results I think though. I have been considering trying enough d120's for edge to edge tank coverage and no lenses to see results but I really just don't have the time or money. So it's really just one more idea rattling around in my head.

 

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[reefnjunkie]

My first DIY LED builds had 60 diodes on a 24"x8.5" heat sink-I had 225 par and a 27" depth while hanging the fixture 12" above the tank.

 

Of all the LED fixtures I've tried and built over the past 5 years the D120s surprisingly out do any fixture I've seen-granted they have there issues but a "working unit" will stand toe to toe with any fixture I've seen and out perform most if not all-IME

 

Granted no bells or whistles but I don't dim, storm ramp etc- why? LOL

 

Thanks for the link GB

[Lexinverts]

My first DIY LED builds had 60 diodes on a 24"x8.5" heat sink-I had 225 par and a 27" depth while hanging the fixture 12" above the tank.

 

Of all the LED fixtures I've tried and built over the past 5 years the D120s surprisingly out do any fixture I've seen-granted they have there issues but a "working unit" will stand toe to toe with any fixture I've seen and out perform most if not all-IME

 

Granted no bells or whistles but I don't dim, storm ramp etc- why? LOL

 

Thanks for the link GB

 

I haven't tried the D120s, but I have seen them over other people's tanks. How similar are they to the Ocean Revive T247s? I love the color I get from my ORs.

[goldenbasketreef]

D120 layout idea is design for even coverage using more diodes at lower wattage.

Unfortunately running without optics will have to set down low to have enough par, I have tested this already.

With or w/o optics will depend on lens that come with the diodes itself. Some color has 100 degree or less dome lens and some other colors has 180 deg lens.

If the diodes all come with 180 deg lens and produce enough lumens then running without optics will be OK. At the same position par could be down to 50% w/o optics.

LED reflector become the choice right now, it gives smooth and even blend as compare to optic.

 

Back to Philips CoralCare it may have the new luxeon z on it, smaller platform with brighter and more efficient than luxeon rebel diodes.

Philips is a household quality brand name and people should expect the same when this light become available.

Philips hold so many patents in lighting technology including led technology up to a point that other brands led diodes pay royalty fee to incorporate Philips technology

in manufacturing the led diodes.

[Blue Z Reef]

I haven't tried the D120s, but I have seen them over other people's tanks. How similar are they to the Ocean Revive T247s? I love the color I get from my ORs.

The OR Artics are basically just a D120 with the diodes spread apart into 4 quadrants for a wider spread. The color is all dependent on who orders the lights, different resellers of d120s order them with different layouts. It would be possible to have same diode layout as the T247.

[Trigger334]

Constitution wise, isn't it better to have few higher output emitters, meant to be driven at a high mA, with wide optics, then a fixture with many more emitters at lower mA? This leads to potential circuity issues, especially when dimming and moisture is involved. As far as energy, does look like a good amount of PAR.

[Lexinverts]

As I understand it, the point of having more diodes is to improve the spread and reduce the disco ball effect. A great example is the Lani LED by Triton.

[earthbound]

As I understand it, the point of having more diodes is to improve the spread and reduce the disco ball effect. A great example is the Lani LED by Triton.

+1 if I wanted a high output single source light I would use a mh bulb and less heaters in my tank with a few select leds to tweak color temp to my liking.

 

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[Lexinverts]

This is the Lani LED:

 

http://reefbuilders.com/2014/05/30/unibody-lani-led-triton-reef/

 

And the result:

 

If the new Phillips lights work anything like these do, and are somewhat affordable, I will probably try them out.

[earthbound]

 

 

Constitution wise, isn't it better to have few higher output emitters, meant to be driven at a high mA, with wide optics, then a fixture with many more emitters at lower mA? This leads to potential circuity issues, especially when dimming and moisture is involved. As far as energy, does look like a good amount of PAR.

If there are wide enough optics to mimic the spread of a 15" or 20" mh reflector or a t5 parabolic then by all means let me know. The one thing leds really bring to the table right now over other light sources is efficiency and controllability. last time I checked the datasheets for every popular 3w led used in current fixtures they all hit their peak efficiency when driven at around 1w or 350ma. So to maintain that efficiency it is optimal to run a higher diode density at less current which also has the benefit of increased spread and light saturation. The one downside is the increased up front cost because of the increased diode count. I am not sure what circuitry issues a higher diode count would entail as long as proper drivers and power sources are used and as for moisture issues I know a t least one fixture on the market that is waterproof so with the proper design it shouldn't be a problem.

 

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[goldenbasketreef]

Constitution wise, isn't it better to have few higher output emitters, meant to be driven at a high mA, with wide optics, then a fixture with many more emitters at lower mA? This leads to potential circuity issues, especially when dimming and moisture is involved. As far as energy, does look like a good amount of PAR.

 

It is all depend on the application, it is difficult to build led aquarium lighting because one fixture doesn't fit all.

In a bigger and deeper commercial tank high ma diodes may be necessary instead of having a bunch of smaller hobbyist tank fixtures for economic reason.

In my shop we work around the tank a lot so having 6-12" fixture above the water just not workable, I need to hang the light 24-36" above water and still giving good par

for the corals to grow and color up. Hence I am using higher wattage diodes so I can drive them with higher ma drivers.

[goldenbasketreef]

If there are wide enough optics to mimic the spread of a 15" or 20" mh reflector or a t5 parabolic then by all means let me know. The one thing leds really bring to the table right now over other light sources is efficiency and controllability. last time I checked the datasheets for every popular 3w led used in current fixtures they all hit their peak efficiency when driven at around 1w or 350ma. So to maintain that efficiency it is optimal to run a higher diode density at less current which also has the benefit of increased spread and light saturation. The one downside is the increased up front cost because of the increased diode count. I am not sure what circuitry issues a higher diode count would entail as long as proper drivers and power sources are used and as for moisture issues I know a t least one fixture on the market that is waterproof so with the proper design it shouldn't be a problem.

 

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Majority of reefers still using T5 and MH as the benchmark standard. So if using LED fixture not succesful they will go back to either T5 or MH.

LED fixture will not fit all and also the fixture came in many design and difference in diodes quality. Some diodes you can drive up to 350ma and some

diodes you can drive all the way to 1.5V. Some 3W diodes will maintain spectrum when dim or run at 350ma and some we will not know what spectrum they cast

when dim at 350ma. Because of this variance LED fixture is not plug and play and also this variance attributed to some people having issue when running led fixture.

The key is to know the handicap of the fixture being used and how to somehow lessen the issue to make it a good working unit.

For example, many led brand place violet and white diodes in one channel. Violet is an absolute must have in a fixture for coral growth and color, it is as much PUR as you can

get in a single violet diode. However when the white being dim the violet also got dim as well. No wonder that some people having issue with color and also corals not growing.

Corals need violet, rb, & blue (basically 400-480nm) as much as you can give the corals, in a fixture you will want this at 100% output.

 

Looking at Philips experiment they may design the led fixture with T5 benchmark, intensity/par and spectrum should be about the same as having T5. The color spectrum will be

better because they covers a wide range of spectrum with the layout in CoralCare fixture. Still not sure if end user will be able to tune the color to have color combination of T5.

[earthbound]

In your situation Rudy have you found that optics or drive current has the most impact on getting the necessary par needed for your setup. Just wondering if a fixture like the triton lani with some reflectors would be feasible for a setup like yours. I do agree that not one fixture will fit everyone and every situation. I don't think leds will ever be as plug and play as MH or T5 and as they are now it definitely takes more education and time by the end user to achive desired results, but you don't get the flexabilty of leds without a little extra leg work somewhere. Sometimes I look at certain commercial fixtures and wonder what they are thinking, like you said tying violet and white together on the same channel is setting the end user up for failure.

 

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[TheClark]

I am tempted to do 9 d120s on the big tank with no lenses running at a lower wattage.  They go on sale off and on for 70 bucks.  At 70 bucks a fixture that is only 630 to light a 5'x cube.

 

Of course I always replace about 8-10 diodes in each fixture to suit personal preferences and make better use of the fixture, they all have way too many whites...

 

Good discussion!

[goldenbasketreef]

In your situation Rudy have you found that optics or drive current has the most impact on getting the necessary par needed for your setup. Just wondering if a fixture like the triton lani with some reflectors would be feasible for a setup like yours. I do agree that not one fixture will fit everyone and every situation. I don't think leds will ever be as plug and play as MH or T5 and as they are now it definitely takes more education and time by the end user to achive desired results, but you don't get the flexabilty of leds without a little extra leg work somewhere. Sometimes I look at certain commercial fixtures and wonder what they are thinking, like you said tying violet and white together on the same channel is setting the end user up for failure.

 

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It is design for passive cooling so increasing the drive current is not feasible, adding optic / reflector will increase par by 30% maybe and at a much more ad on cost.

Reflector / optic is expensive and the lay out of lani fixture not design to take optic or reflector because diodes align with minimal spread.

If we were to use lani led for 4x8 tank we would need a lot of panels so it would not be cost effective. Can be done but become too expensive.

Right know with 51 diodes per 20"x6" fixture @ 197W X2 I can light up 4ftX4ft area with 350-800 par edge to center. This is not counting the violet & rb par that the par meter can't

read properly. Usually need to add about 30% of the par meter reading if there plenty of rb, violet, & true uv (sub 400nm). This reading with fixture about 24" above water surface.

Sometimes we need to look at total cost to light a square foot area efficiently and comparing brand / ready made fixture with diy.

[goldenbasketreef]

I am tempted to do 9 d120s on the big tank with no lenses running at a lower wattage.  They go on sale off and on for 70 bucks.  At 70 bucks a fixture that is only 630 to light a 5'x cube.

 

Of course I always replace about 8-10 diodes in each fixture to suit personal preferences and make better use of the fixture, they all have way too many whites...

 

Good discussion!

 

That will be awesome.

 

or You can spread out 100 Cree led on a 5'x5' aluminum sheet 1/4" and fire at 350ma or 500ma that should be less than 630.00

Edited January 6, 2016 by goldenbasketreef

[reefnjunkie]

That will be awesome.

 

or You can spread out 100 Cree led on a 5'x5' aluminum sheet 1/4" and fire at 350ma or 500ma that should be less than 630.00

Disco Inferno

[Lexinverts]

This is not counting the violet & rb par that the par meter can't

read properly. Usually need to add about 30% of the par meter reading if there plenty of rb, violet, & true uv (sub 400nm). This reading with fixture about 24" above water surface.

Sometimes we need to look at total cost to light a square foot area efficiently and comparing brand / ready made fixture with diy.

 

I read this on Steve's LED website too. He was stating that the PAR meter would get saturated and underestimate PAR from his Royal Blue LEDs. He also recommends the 30% correction for PAR readings from an LED fixture. This is good thing to remember when trying to match PAR between a T5 fixture and an LED fixture.