Sponsors buying livestock from Classified section

[vanz]

ahreno, you proposed sponsors to be blocked from the classifieds for a few days? What's to stop non-sponsors from doing the exact thing?

 

I believe the classifieds should be for people that aren't trying to profit. It all comes down to people buying the item because they need it/want it in their own tank, and people snatching up the item just to markup and resell.

 

Ultimately it's up to the seller though, if they want to get rid of their stuff, it's up to them if they care who gets it. They can also refuse to sell.

 

You guys know there are tons of flakers out there, so if the seller can avoid that by just by selling it all to a reputable person, more power to him.

 

Time to camp the classifieds.lol.

[ahreno]

I feel that buying and selling should be kept on a first come first serve basis. the matter of who is buying and selling is irrelivent. I also feel that this thread has become personal and petty. A moderator should consider removing the thread. This kind of topic is very discouraging to a business that has paid to be a sponsor here. It does nothing for our hobby. If I see much more of this kind of discussion I may reconsider a sponsorship for next year.

 

very interesting post. I just reread the thread and I'd have to say that I don't think there is much wrong with it. Some over reaction but the original topic is a pretty valid discussion to have. I agree that it has gotten personal and petty but to remove the conversation is not fair. There are some good points made by many people.

 

What part of this discussion or topic is so bad that it brings you to threaten to not sponsor the group? All of the angered responses have come from a sponsor, not from actual group.

 

I guess I really fail to see how this topic is something that shouldn't or can't be discussed openly and professionally

[ahreno]

Vanz... good point about blocking sponsors. I thought about that as well which is why i phrased it Commercially interested parties" which was easy to overlook in this cluster mess of a thread. Of course it would be possible to game the system (fake usernames, having someone else buy for them) and if someone really wants to go through that much trouble to get around the rules then who cares, let them do it. There will always be shady things like that that happen.

 

The only realistic solution i could come up for that wouldn't completely disallow commercial places from using the buy/sell forum is to put a time limit on it that paid members of the group or just site members have first dibs on things for. then let the rest go to the stores who are welcome to mark it up as much as they want since it passed through the members of the site first.

 

This would actually be an incentive to be a paid member of the group (which I am NOT but would pay just for that purpose) as they would get first dibs on buy/sell items.

[chorse]

My statements are in regard to the way club members communicate with each other. This would include sposors as well as members. The topic is valid. The personal attacks are not!

[downhill_biker]

I guess I just figured forums were a place to discuss ones opinions. Sometimes people will get offended for that i appologize. JMO. I know I say stupid things all the time if someone points it out am I going to take it personal... probably a little but hey that their opinions and they have a right to it and a right to express it. Just like arheno had a right to express her/his opinion about sponsors buying livestock. I'm sure plenty of people were offended by this topic as a whole' date=' but thats what forums are for discussing opinions. People will get offended, but its not the end of the world. What I'm trying to say is this was personal from the get go, this thread offended me as a whole, even though it may not have been directed at me.[/quote']

 

If you feel the person starting this thread, was being personal from the get go, then let them know it. I, me, downhill_biker, made a comment, which you thought was the stupidest comment you have ever seen on this site. That is just uncalled for. I know stupid things get said, and it is your "right" to comment on them, by law, but I dont think it IS "right". I just thought we were friends. I truly treat everyone in this hobby as a friend, and try to help them out any way possible. If it means driving over and taking care of their tank for a week while they are gone, I do it, even if I have only met them once. I have cleaned people's tanks, fixed their bikes, gave them corals, ect...and I was just set back when you said something like that. I know you say you get carried away, well get it under control. This is not REEF CENTRAL!!!

[mrgreenthumb]

Greenthumb. Settle down man. Jesus. I was and still am referring to this as commercially driven people. I don't direct it to you anymore than i direct it towards any one else that buys corals here to sell in a store. I've said a few times i understand each side of the debate. What I don't understand is why you are getting so bent out of whack about this. It's just a discussion board. I have never seen this topic breached on here before so I thought i'd bring it up. If it's been discussed before I apologize. I'm sorry if i somehow happened to personally insult you as that has never been the case.

 

I never said you called me stupid. I said "Mr. Green Thumb. I apologize that you find my feelings "stupid"." which was in response to you saing my comment of "my end feeling after thinking about it for a while is that it just comes down to ethics" was the stupidest thing you ever read. Thats not out of context.

 

The only reason this thread is unprofessional is the way you are handling yourself.

 

As a side note, I do appreciate that fact that you buy products from customers as it avoids you having to buy from people that destroy reefs to supply your store. I just was curious what other peoples feelings are on capitalizing off the classified section here. if the majority of people don't care then thats fine let it be... if the majority DO care then something should be done to address this.

 

Please refrain from the personal attacks towards me as they aren't beneficial to the conversation.

 

you just said "You guys need to be a little careful on getting pissed off." That made me laugh...

 

I wish more than anything I could express my words face to face as it is easy for people to misunderstand something written in text. I really(belive it or not) am perfectly calm. I'm just a passionate and intense type of person, so I often have trouble expressing myself through wirtten word. DOH!

 

I can agree to not attack you only if you quit pointing out my gramatical errors!!(laugh)

 

 

Ok so the last part though I think you must be confusing me with someone else. I do try to purchase as much aquacultured corals as possible to prevent the destrouction of reefs. It is very important to me to preserve them for future generations. However I don't have customers. I don't work for a Lfs. I don't own a Lfs. I AM A CUSTOMER. My name is Matthew layton and I cook for a living. I have sold a few corals through the site, but am mostly interested in trading. I have never sold corals on ebay. I just don't know why you think I have customers and that I run a business.

 

And I never said " you guys need to be careful on getting pissed off," but if i did I could undersertand you laughing.

 

 

P.S. arheno I appologize for getting a little carried away. Just passionate about my beliefs, and have always been one to speak my mind.

 

 

P.P.S. I don't understand the point of closing the thread. Good things can come from negative situations. Seems a little BIG Brotherish to regulate on ones opinions

[ahreno]

[language filter]. Mrgreenthumb, I apologize, i got you mixed up with Sully. I apologize. Kinda blew that one badly. My bad.

 

I'm done here. this has gotten so far off my original topic it's not even funny. I REALLY just wanted to discuss comercial entities buying from our classifieds to make a profit.

\

So if anyone is reading still and interested in the original topic... What about the thought of giving PAID PNWMAS members a set amount of time (1 day, 3 days) to purchase before it opens up to the general public (commercially interested parties as well).

 

Please note that I am NOT a paid member of the site and would fall into the latter group (but it would convince me to join the group).

[mrgreenthumb]

I guess if I said something stupid I would expect my friends to point it out, but thats niether here nor there. Sorry but I somehow missed that post you made it is was directed more torwards arheno. should have used the quote button sorry for the confusion. Furthermore i said it was one of the stupidist not the stupidist. I've seen alot worse. I guess I just felt I had a right to express my opinion, I'm just the type of person that speaks my mind. whats the point of beating around the bush and being fake and not telling people how you really feel. Everybody is not always going to get along, unfortunately. I just feel I have the right to say whats on my mind. It's not like i started name calling or cussing anyone out. You truly are a kind person for offering those services for members of the board, for that I commend you. For me sometimes people appreciate and respect that I am always willing to say whats on my mind and not hold anything back(within reason), not bs or be fake, and some people get all bent out of shape and take it way to personal. I would hope and expect the same from my friends and this community. As some of you have been so gracious to point out when my comments weren't necessary or a bit overboard. I thank you for that

 

If you feel the person starting this thread' date=' was being personal from the get go, then let them know it. I, me, downhill_biker, made a comment, which you thought was the stupidest comment you have ever seen on this site. That is just uncalled for. I know stupid things get said, and it is your "right". I just thought we were friends. I truly treat everyone in this hobby as a friend, and try to help them out any way possible. If it means driving over and taking care of their tank for a week while they are gone, I do it, even if I have only met them once. I have cleaned people's tanks, fixed their bikes, gave them corals, ect...and I was just set back when you said something like that. I know you say you get carried away, well get it under control. This is not REEF CENTRAL!!![/quote']

[mrgreenthumb]

Let me make sure to say in case I didn't already. I completely understand your point of view. It is frustrating I know!! I think the way it is ran now is probably the fairest possible way to do it when keeping all parties in consideration, simply beacuse anyone has the option to buy it all at once and resell it if they want to.

 

There wish I could of said just that earlier.

 

 

[language filter]. Mrgreenthumb, I apologize, i got you mixed up with Sully. I apologize. Kinda blew that one badly. My bad.

 

I'm done here. this has gotten so far off my original topic it's not even funny. I REALLY just wanted to discuss comercial entities buying from our classifieds to make a profit.

\

So if anyone is reading still and interested in the original topic... What about the thought of giving PAID PNWMAS members a set amount of time (1 day, 3 days) to purchase before it opens up to the general public (commercially interested parties as well).

 

Please note that I am NOT a paid member of the site and would fall into the latter group (but it would convince me to join the group).

[mister crabs]

wow.... i take a few days off from the forums and all hell breaks loose! LOL

 

As for my opinion on the original issue I say whoever shows up first with cash in hand should be allowed to buy it. Sponsor or not. What if the tank in question had been posted as FOR SALE AS A WHOLE ONLY?? how many of you would have stepped up and bought everything? when i want to sell a car I dont care if my neighbor buys it or the owner of the local dealership. As long as I recieve a fair price then I am happy. After the goods leave the hands of the seller the buyer can do what he wants. Doesnt matter if he frags the corals and sells for a profit or flushes them down the toilet and sets the tank up as a goldfish tank. Thats the beauty of free enterprise. Its not fair to regulate a marketplace even if its a private club forum, to that extent.

 

BUT...... I do believe that if we see someone reselling items purchased off our classifieds BACK on our classifieds at a higher price then action must be taken. Just my .02

[mrgreenthumb]

wow.... i take a few days off from the forums and all hell breaks loose! LOL

 

As for my opinion on the original issue I say whoever shows up first with cash in hand should be allowed to buy it. Sponsor or not. What if the tank in question had been posted as FOR SALE AS A WHOLE ONLY?? how many of you would have stepped up and bought everything? when i want to sell a car I dont care if my neighbor buys it or the owner of the local dealership. As long as I recieve a fair price then I am happy. After the goods leave the hands of the seller the buyer can do what he wants. Doesnt matter if he frags the corals and sells for a profit or flushes them down the toilet and sets the tank up as a goldfish tank. Thats the beauty of free enterprise. Its not fair to regulate a marketplace even if its a private club forum, to that extent.

 

BUT...... I do believe that if we see someone reselling items purchased off our classifieds BACK on our classifieds at a higher price then action must be taken. Just my .02

 

If that happened I don't think people would buy it at the higher price, but if they did thats their fault for not doing their research. Just like you said after the good leave the hands of the seller, the buyer can do what he wants.

[JManrow]

Possibly this sort of thing might be avoided in the future if responses are done by sending a PM. Just a suggestion.

I have seen others request responses by PM in the past.

[SamatSLS]

Let's be honest with eachother. This sponsor title under my user name means nothing. I'm a 25 year old reefer from Tualatin who spends a lot of time and money on my tank. I'm such a hobbyist that I strived to work in the industry. Now, if some guy posts a $200 coral for $50, I might want it! If I find it before you, that's tough! It's part of the fun of clicking on the classifieds. If you're like me, you check it hoping to find a little treasure.

 

If I want to buy a "item" on this forum, I should be able to, it should be left to the sellers discretion.

 

It's not like you guys all sell items cheap to help a fellow member of the club though. You sell to make money, fund other aquatic purchases, etc. That whole argument is bogus. Honestly.. How often have we seen members try to sell items on craigslist and pnwmas for the same price, and at the same time? I've seen many items on here more expensive than I have at stores as well. The classifieds are simply an outlet for these items to sell aimed at a target audience.

[ahreno]

BUT...... I do believe that if we see someone reselling items purchased off our classifieds BACK on our classifieds at a higher price then action must be taken. Just my .02

 

Great point until this last point. Whats the difference if they take it back to their store to sell it to us or sell it back to us from here? At least from here we don't have to go into a store and be pressured into buying something else.

 

If there is no concern of people capitalizing on the classified threads it should make no difference where that capitalization takes place. It's ok to make money off the classifieds as long as it's not done in our presence?

[ahreno]

Let's be honest with eachother. This sponsor title under my user name means nothing.

 

You're right as well. the "sponsor" title shouldn't have been in my original post... my reference is to people from stores that buy with the sole purpose of marking the piece of and selling in their store. Being a site sponsor has nothing to do with it and i incorrectly used that term instead of soemthing like "store"

[downhill_biker]

I am beginning to switch sides on this...I think it should be first come first serve, sponsor or not. After reading all the posts, it just seems fair. I really like the car dealer example. I am VERY much FOR the aquaculturing of corals to save the reefs, and this may be a step toward that. And if you keep in good terms and communication with everyone in the club, you can usually find the coral you are wanting from someone else, just as was done here. Store owners shouldn't be punished for their markup, just cautious. Dont want to see it start happening all the time to all the coral and equipment.

[ThePremiumAquarium]

I am beginning to switch sides on this...I think it should be first come first serve' date=' sponsor or not. After reading all the posts, it just seems fair. I really like the car dealer example. I am VERY much FOR the aquaculturing of corals to save the reefs, and this may be a step toward that. And if you keep in good terms and communication with everyone in the club, you can usually find the coral you are wanting from someone else, just as was done here. Store owners shouldn't be punished for their markup, just cautious. Dont want to see it start happening all the time to all the coral and equipment.[/quote']

 

I think that almost everyone here agrees with the first come first serve, doesn't matter who, shop owner or personal tank owner idea. If not at first, once they think about it and or talk about it with others it all begins to make sense. It is the only way to do business if we are to promote both the sellers interests and simple free commerce.

 

 

Props for the side change and welcome to the light!

 

Garrett

[WAVES]

 

LFS around here rape and pillage customers. I have never found a "great deal" in a LFS.

 

 

I take offense to this, this is a personal attack on any LFS owner. As well as your constant referrance to "rediculous priced LFS's". We charge what we must to stay in business, how is that rediculous?

 

PNWMAS is not a dictatorship, thus it should not be run like a dictatorship. If a seller wants to sell to someone, they should be allowed to sell. Let them decide.

 

Consider you going and buying JUST the LE corals (I never read the classifieds thread, so I could be wrong) did you ever consider that Frank doesnt want to be left with only his "not so cool corals"? Its just like a wholesaler, they have minimums because they dont want someone cherry picking the 2-3 amazing items, only to lose out on an order that could also include hundreds of other items.

 

Kent should quit selling to Petco, Marinedepot and F&S. They buy too much at a time so they get it for less, its just not fair to the rest of us (sarcasm included).

 

I have never bought anything from the classifieds on this board, but I would do so without hesitation to make a profit. I try to pay my employees, and keep the power on, so if I see fit I will buy from whomever.

 

Refering to people approching me to sell used goods: I will offer them what *I* think is a suitable price for me to warrant the effort (used stuff is usually nasty, and requires labor) and the opportunity to make a profit. If the person selling does not like my offer, they can say no. Also, if I already have 12 of the same item, the offer will be lower. Thats the way inventory works.

[mister crabs]

Great point until this last point. Whats the difference if they take it back to their store to sell it to us or sell it back to us from here? At least from here we don't have to go into a store and be pressured into buying something else.

 

If there is no concern of people capitalizing on the classified threads it should make no difference where that capitalization takes place. It's ok to make money off the classifieds as long as it's not done in our presence?

 

 

I guess the difference is you wouldnt know the coral was from that particular sale. If a sponsor buys, for example, a good sized rainbow monti colony and frags it for sale as individual pieces, then you really wouldnt have any idea that was the same coral or proof to accuse that it is. I personally would be really offended if I were a LFS owner and someone came into my shop accusing me of doing such a thing without any actual proof. Its not like coral have a serial # on them.

If he buys a colony that for $50.00 that would be worth $200 in the average LFS, and then frags it into 4 pieces and sells each for $50, then the item is still $200 right? hes not gouging, just taking advantage of a low "wholesale" price so to speak. It would be the same as if he had bought the coral from his wholesaler for $50 on clearance and fragged it for a $150 profit. I really see no difference in it.

 

I can see how someone would be upset if a buyer, sponsor or not, grabs something up before they can claim it. Happens all the time. (especially to me it seems like lol DOH!) I Live in vegas and there have been at least 6 items that have come up for sale that if I were still in oregon I would have snagged up. But I also agree the seller has the right to sell his item as a whole rather than deal with parting it out.

 

I think overall its a touchy subject.

 

I think for future transactions, If you are a buyer who might get flack for your purchase, or any buyer for that matter, you should make your request in PM's. nobody else needs to know the transaction details except the parties involved. if the buyer wants to be revealed then that is up to the buyer. would solve headaches in the future IMO. (clap)(clap)

[mister crabs]

I take offense to this, this is a personal attack on any LFS owner. As well as your constant referrance to "rediculous priced LFS's". We charge what we must to stay in business, how is that rediculous?

 

PNWMAS is not a dictatorship, thus it should not be run like a dictatorship. If a seller wants to sell to someone, they should be allowed to sell. Let them decide.

 

Consider you going and buying JUST the LE corals (I never read the classifieds thread, so I could be wrong) did you ever consider that Frank doesnt want to be left with only his "not so cool corals"? Its just like a wholesaler, they have minimums because they dont want someone cherry picking the 2-3 amazing items, only to lose out on an order that could also include hundreds of other items.

 

Kent should quit selling to Petco, Marinedepot and F&S. They buy too much at a time so they get it for less, its just not fair to the rest of us (sarcasm included).

 

I have never bought anything from the classifieds on this board, but I would do so without hesitation to make a profit. I try to pay my employees, and keep the power on, so if I see fit I will buy from whomever.

 

Refering to people approching me to sell used goods: I will offer them what *I* think is a suitable price for me to warrant the effort (used stuff is usually nasty, and requires labor) and the opportunity to make a profit. If the person selling does not like my offer, they can say no. Also, if I already have 12 of the same item, the offer will be lower. Thats the way inventory works.

 

I also dont believe the LFS are "gouging" or "pillaging" anyone. I think the markup is minimal. I dont see any LFS owner cruising around in Mercedes and if the business was that lucrative then the amount of LFS closing thier doors in the last few years would be far less.

[SULLY]

What about my Ferrari? I know it's not a Mercedes. But give me some props(clap)

[downhill_biker]

What about my Ferrari? I know it's not a Mercedes. But give me some props(clap)

 

I dont really care to drive a mercedes, but can I try out your ferrari? just for one night, common. help a guy pick up some girls. jk. already got one.

[SULLY]

Don't worry. I have six of them parked in my underground garage at my third home that is located in the islands. I will just give you one of them if you pay the shipping :p

[WAVES]

Jason you forgot to mention you "Farm" more than corals. jk

[downhill_biker]

Don't worry. I have six of them parked in my underground garage at my third home that is located in the islands. I will just give you one of them if you pay the shipping :p

 

BS. you are a LFS owner, you will gouge me. I dont fall for your games. Or is the Ferrari free when I buy one of your rediculous $55,000,000 frags?