PowderBlue Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) I have been in a battle with nitrates. My tank has gone through hell over the past couple of months and this seems to be the final piece of the puzzle. I'll go over some quick stats of the setup 4 foot by 2 foot Gyre 130 for flow 2200 gph return 40 breeder sump Apx 100 pounds of rock between the display and sump Very shallow sand bed Calcium 470 Mag 1300 Kh usually around 9 Everything else is controlled by my apex and calcium reactor. I have the redsea kit and I can't tell.if it's 20ppm or 50ppm. It seems closer to 20 but the [language filter] kit is far to close in color. So let's assume the worst 50ppm! When I ran the test a couple weeks ago I immediately cut back to feeding cubes every other day and leaning more towards algae strips for my tangs. Today and yesterday I did 20 gallon water changes, including pulling all the live rock and equipment out of my sump to vacuum it out with my shop vac. So that's a 40 gallon change in 2 days on a system of about 80 gallons. I no longer run filter socks or any type of hanging bag in my sump, just some rock and Chaeto. I just tested again after about 30 minutes after the water change and it seems to be between 5 and 10ppm. 5 is manageable but 10 worries me. Other than vodka dosing and weekly huge water changes, anyone have any other ideas of what to try or adjust? Here is a pic of the live rock from the sump And this is what was under it it doesn't seem like much to me but could that little bit create that much of an issue? It's been down there for about 4 months. I don't like water changes for a few reasons main one is the time lol second one is the temp drops in my tank drastically because my Rodi and holding container is in my garage. So it's stresses me out when the tank temp drops from 78 to 74 or so during my changes. It usually takes about 2 hours to get back to temp. Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk Edited January 23, 2017 by PowderBlue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danlu_gt Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Vodka dosing should be able to bring it down to 0 with good skimmer without water changes. Just need to follow the dosing routine to find balance with your regular feeding. Or get a large size ATS. This way you can keep your fish happy with lots of feeding. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowderBlue Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 What's an ats? I have an SRO xp 3000 on an 80 gallon system so I'm sure my skimmer is up to par haha. I think I was way over feeding. Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexinverts Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Algae turf scrubber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowderBlue Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 Algae turf scrubber.I've read so many mixed long term reviews on them I've been hesitant to run one. What's odd is I don't have an algae issue, no hair algae, no bubble algae, just a thin amount of drown stuff on a few areas of my sand bed. My sps are the only issue. Phosphates tested at 0.06 today so they need to come down a bit as well. Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexinverts Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 That's what ATS stands for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexinverts Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Try this: I'm running this chaeto reactor in my frag system. It's an alternative approach to a standard hair algae scrubber. It's an Aquamaxx XL fluidized media reactor with a cheap LED strip wrapped around it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youcallmenny Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 You might just drop a heater in your water resevoir the night prior to a water change. That's what I've been doing and after setting the temperature on said heater, my tank temperature doesn't vary at all. I'm in the same nitrate boat at the moment. I did 2 40% water changes back to back this weekend which helped, added another ~40lbs of live rock to my display, and am waiting on an order of Red Sea No3Po4-X (NOPOX). I also was only using half of a 2LF media reactor full of large pore lignite carbon. I doubled this so that the reactor is completely full and changed every 2 weeks. In addition to all this, I drastically cut back my feeding schedule. It went from ~40ppm to ~20ppm already without the the Red Sea product. I will update you in this thread on what it does after I've used it for a week or two, if you're interested. It's supposed to be pretty effective. I'm aiming for <5ppm. Good luck in your fight with this! I'll be following along. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexinverts Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 You might just drop a heater in your water resevoir the night prior to a water change. That's what I've been doing and after setting the temperature on said heater, my tank temperature doesn't vary at all. I'm in the same nitrate boat at the moment. I did 2 40% water changes back to back this weekend which helped, added another ~40lbs of live rock to my display, and am waiting on an order of Red Sea No3Po4-X (NOPOX). I also was only using half of a 2LF media reactor full of large pore lignite carbon. I doubled this so that the reactor is completely full and changed every 2 weeks. In addition to all this, I drastically cut back my feeding schedule. It went from ~40ppm to ~20ppm already without the the Red Sea product. I will update you in this thread on what it does after I've used it for a week or two, if you're interested. It's supposed to be pretty effective. I'm aiming for <5ppm. Good luck in your fight with this! I'll be following along. Careful with NoPox. It is extremely powerful stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youcallmenny Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Thanks for the warning Andy, I appreciate it. I was planning on a half dose to start but I will probably use a quarter after your warning. There's plenty of cautionary tales out there about slamming nitrates down too quickly. I'm only using it because I believe the root cause (drastic overfeeding) has been addressed. The idea is to just get it lowered down to a desirable level and then stop use and maintain that level through improved husbandry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danlu_gt Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 I'm a strong believer of ATS or some sort of algae harvest to export waste. In my old 50g cube system, I was able to run it over 1.5yrs without water changes. I do have to add fresh mix saltwater whenever I sell/trade frags. I was able to setup auto pellet feeder went gone for 4 weeks at a time. With my current system, I made a new larger ATS to handle 38+ fishes. I like to keep my fish fat. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N70SJ Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 How long has your tank been up? 1. Why is there so little coralline algae? 2. Are you feeding too much? 3. Is your bio-load too high for the amount of water in your system? 4. A good skimmer plays a HUGE roll in keeping Nitrates down. How many liters/min of air is your skimmer converting into bubbles? 5. Does your water go through the skimmer 1st? 6. Piles of rock in a tank or sump hinder water flow and are detritus magnets 7. Do you light your sump at night? 8. How much Macro Alage is in your sump? 9. Your water flow is low. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowderBlue Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 Tanks been up 8 months, I have an insane amount of coraline, those rocks are pulled from my sump not the display. I think i may have slightly over fed but nothing major, skimmer is rated for a heavy bioload of 250 gallons, I have 80 gallons. Water goes into overflow directly into my skimmer section. The only light over my sump is for the chaeto algae the rest is blacked out. I'd say my turnover and flow is totally fine my turnover is nearly 70 times. Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowderBlue Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 I'm a strong believer of ATS or some sort of algae harvest to export waste. In my old 50g cube system, I was able to run it over 1.5yrs without water changes. I do have to add fresh mix saltwater whenever I sell/trade frags. I was able to setup auto pellet feeder went gone for 4 weeks at a time. With my current system, I made a new larger ATS to handle 38+ fishes. I like to keep my fish fat. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk I'll have to build one. Do you have a good diy design that you follow? I'm finding a crazy amount online and a lot are different. Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N70SJ Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 My guess is too much un-eaten fish food or too many fish or not enough rock/sand for bacteria. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowderBlue Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 I'm leaning towards food, I was doing 2 cubes a day everyday and a strip of algae. It used to be super stable with great sps growth, and it went bonkers about a month or so ago. Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N70SJ Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 If your sump is in the garage and your tank is in the house get a 150 to 300 gallon Rubbermaid tub from a Costal or feed store for your sump. Then fill it with rock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N70SJ Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Easiest, cheapest way to reduce nitrates IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N70SJ Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 PS Your turn-over is closer to 30-33 times a hr. You may have a return pump and a circulation/wave pump that total a numerator which when divided by your tanks gallons of water = 60-70 but only the water from your return pump puts the water through your skimmer etc. and that's why turn-over is important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowderBlue Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) Edit for misunderstanding on my end lol I have 2 2300 gph powerheads, one at 100 percent and one at 60 percent, my return pump is 2600 gph but only run at 60 percent. Isn't tur over taking the 3, adding them up, and then dividing by tank volume? Most of my turnover is in the display, the overflow to return pump is most definitely the lesser of the 2. I wish I would have drilled 2 one inch drains:( Edited January 24, 2017 by PowderBlue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N70SJ Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Turnover = The number of times all the water in the Aquarium, (Aquarium only, not the sump), passes through the filter system. Your turnover is 26. Probably less than that because of head pressure loss. I don't know how far below your tank your return pump is. ie: 2,600 X 60% = 1,560. 1,560/59.8 = 26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danlu_gt Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 I'll have to build one. Do you have a good diy design that you follow? I'm finding a crazy amount online and a lot are different. Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk I wanted one that's completely enclosed to prevent salt stray. My design is basically an acrylic box. I use 3/4" PVC so I drill 1" holes and got 3/4" NPT thread tap drill off eBay. PVC adaptors are screwed in to the acrylic directly without bulkhead to reduce size. I use some 3D printed ABS parts for resting the PVC pipe and holding the algae growth sheets. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Z Reef Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 One suggestion going forward - get a powerhead or wavemaker in your sump and have a timer turn it on and off periodically to prevent detritus settling. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xmas_one Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 I'd suggest that you calibrate your test kit or at least have someone else test your water. You might have a bad test kit. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/11-fertilizers-water-parameters/34206-how-calibrate-your-nitrate-test-kit.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N70SJ Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Good luck man! Sorry I was not much help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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