Mcahill Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Honestly this is all crazy we should be discussing the fact that there is a chance our hobby as we know it could cease to exist if this goes through http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/noaa-lists-20-new-corals-as-threatened-under-the-endangered-species-act Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackice Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Hello I am a newer member to this site...I joined a month or so before the site went down. I do not know any of you but respect the information that all of you have contributed to members like my self. This matter that people have been talking about on this thread has made me sad. We have elected these people in office for a reason...I would say let them do their job. For the people that not happy with what has happened there are better way to help this site...! There are people that reading these post like my self and would like this taken care of in a manner that would make our member proud. + 1000000000000000000000000 Let's not let all this drama turn away the majority of this great group of people we have here!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackice Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Honestly this is all crazy we should be discussing the fact that there is a chance our hobby as we know it could cease to exist if this goes through http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/noaa-lists-20-new-corals-as-threatened-under-the-endangered-species-act +20000000000000000000 This is what we need to be focusing on they are the true enemy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenbasketreef Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Honestly this is all crazy we should be discussing the fact that there is a chance our hobby as we know it could cease to exist if this goes through http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/noaa-lists-20-new-corals-as-threatened-under-the-endangered-species-act True. This listing is actually pertaining to US and It's Territory only. It doesn't concern to the whole world. What it does however is affecting us domestically, because NOAA can pursue to make a regulation regarding this issue. Lobbyist will see it as a time to raise funds for fighting whatever bill it may come about. Every so often this hobby always facing this type threatening situation but always can reason with law maker because no one want to OK the worst possible bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kona26 Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 So lets make this the end of this..! ... and let our board members do what they where elected to do. PLEASE I know it it hard when things don't look right...and I do not / nor saying I do know what is going on. But let us as a whole go through the proper channels with these issues. There are still a lot of new reefers that are needing our help...so let help them...!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowderBlue Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 This is out of bounds! It's what this section was made for. For people like myself that have been around for years would like some answers and appreciate the thread being out here. So in the end we all can get the answers we want and the information we need for our future elections etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattv Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 And the idea of a plot to sabotage, has anyone met Cuttlefish, or Ocean Revive, I happen to know those two people have more character than probably the majority of people on this site and I'd trust them and not second guess my decision. I like OR and Cuttlefish and agree they have brought a lot to this club. If they want to sponsor another site I don't have a problem with that. I didn't even mention them in my original post. My guess is Micah talks a good game. Like I said I don't know him and have never met him. I just know BS when I see it. I have to say that Jeff has done a ton for this community and I am sure that he would not do anything malicious. A new site should not be an issue under the right situation. Jeff, Darryl and Adam are some of the nicest people I know and would give you the shirt off their back if needed. Bringing Jeff into this is wrong he has more at stake than most involved to keep this community happy! He has no control regarding pulling or changing administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenbasketreef Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 All what we have been discussing about the issue facing PNWMAS is healthy. It is not healthy when we try to argue with each other, lets value each other opinion / voice and leave it that without any response. All of this is politic after the fact and I am sure the bods is busy talking about it. A much bigger issue is how the site went down. We were told that it was attacked / hacked. The information that came to me is that it was not attacked / hacked per say at all. Someone with admin password logged in to pnwmas site and deleting files and database to kill pnwmas site. This is concerning and why a person would have malicious intent like that for just a reef forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowderBlue Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 I totally agree with you mattv on the OR and cuttlefish. They are birth great people and I would never suspect them to do anything malicious. I hope that's not how my post came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenbasketreef Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Both Jeff and Bo are dear friends to me. Lets not assume the worst about them. They are free to sponsor at any site. That is their business not us to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 It's funny when people call into question integrity and then realize that question becomes a question about more than that one person. I also supported Micah in his creation of a new forum and was one of the first members to sign up, I assure you that wouldn't have been the case had it been a malicious act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoobtoSalt Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 I have sent a message to Kevin for a formal response. If what is being said is true this does need to be addressed as it sounds like we may have people in position that shouldn't be there. Being voted in or not if it's not healthy for the club the board needs to do it's due dillagence. I'm glad that I'm not on the board this current year at this point. I respect most of the elected officials and know you will all do the right thing. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 As I stated earlier today, I will have a more "official" post about what happened and what we are doing about it tomorrow. I would have rather waited but it seems there is so much conjecture and misinformation being presented right now that a response is needed at this time. At a time when I would have expected hard work being praised to log in to threads like this is very disheartening for the team, who is now as we have always done, tried to do what is best for the site. I have been working in the back so to speak for 8 years now, I think some of that tenure would garnish a benefit of the doubt, it is hurtful that it does not. There has been so much it is hard to know where to start, but when you eat an elephant it starts with the first bite, so here goes. I'm going to do a bit of a summary before answering things line by line, which I will do. I was the one that asked Jay to send Micah the passwords to the server and allow him Admin controls. That happened with me, if you want to place blame, place it here. When the site went down I think we were all content to allow the Admins to handle it. Upon speaking to Darryl and hearing the suggestion that a complete wipe of the site was in order and we would loose all the data we had ever collected, it was my position as well as others that I was able to speak to that we should try to preserve the site. At that time Darryl told me their main priority was switching servers to which I told him our main priority is restoring the site and it's data. All of it. (I have still not lost hope on this) IMO the data that we have all accumulated here over the years is a direct history of who our club is and how far we have come and it sickens me that we lost so much. I will take a partial responsibility in what was lost. As the President it is my job to make sure the site is functioning as it should and while I did ask the questions and was told the site was being backed up, it was not. The lack of back ups was not malicious on anyone's part. It was a mistake. One that could have been easily avoided, and multiple layers of protection are now in place, thanks to your VP, Micah. The former Admin team just did not have the capability to set up backs ups in a manor in which I thought was "safe". My condition is that backing up on a server is fine, but we need a physical back up at one of our homes incase the server is attacked. We also need a restore plan beyond a backup because who cares if you have a back up if you can't do anything with it. After my first conversation with Darryl I was under the impression the site would be back up very soon, we all were. The entire time it was down I was never given a timeline of more then tomorrow night. After the site did not come back on as expected I contacted Jay, and received an update. As time moved on I also spoke with Adam who was working with Jay, and received an update from him. Jay and Adam were doing their best and everything they could to restore the site. The work they did is admirable and appreciated. Speaking with Adam he was still of the opinion that the current Admin team might not be able to restore any of the lost data. Adam was also very nonchalant about the loss, but granted he had just stayed up to 4am trying to reload the site so I know his heart was in the right place. I think to a person who has dedicated 8 years to servicing a community they feel is important and an Admin here under a year maybe we were feeling the hit differently. When I spoke with Adam about instituting backups for the site I was not satisfied and he dismissed my request for an off server backup as being "emotional". Not having a backup to this site is unacceptable to me. Adam called me later that afternoon to tell me the site was up. I was on a computer when he called and even with him on the phone with me I was unable to access the forum. He instructed me on how to use some back slashes and php's and a few periods to get to the site. IMO if I can't find the site while on the phone with the IT guy, then the site is not up. Micah as the VP and I had been in contact almost everyday the site was down. From the beginning he had volunteered to help, and with his expertise as an IT professional as well as his job running a large Admin team, I thought it was time to seek help elsewhere. Micah is not only the VP, but has been in this community for a very long time. Once Micah was given codes by Jay at my request things started moving very quickly. I made the request to Jay after my conversation with Adam where I was not able to access the forum. Did Micah loose faith at one point and think that the PNWMAS was never coming back, sounds like it. I was being told the same thing by our Admins. Did he start another site which he has since taken down and dedicated himself here doing hours and hours of work to make THIS forum better. Yes he has. The attitude towards Micah from this group right now really needs to be one of thanks. Not only has Micah helped to rebuild the site but he at my request has installed security measures and fixed loopholes that previously existed. Honestly I am not sure we would even have a site to have this conversation if it was not for Micah's work. There has been no deception that has come from the board of this site, all that has happened is a group of passionate and frustrated volunteers doing what they can to have an online reefing community in our area. Upon receiving codes to the site Micah did change all of the passwords for Admin. The passwords that were in place were the same ones as "pre" hack and the hackers had an open door to our site. It is common sense to change those passwords. No disrespect to anyone but this alone should be a clear key to how much help our Admin team needed. No one was removed from any position, the only people leaving there positions did so by resignation. This morning when Darryl resigned he used his Admin access to go into the panel and demote himself. He was not ousted he resigned. Based on my text with Adam he was not able to get his password to work and felt that Micah had some how intentionally locked him out. That is just not true. When I went to bed last night our Admins were Jay, Micah, Darryl, and Adam. Today Darryl and Adam have recused themselves. No one demoted them or asked them to step down. They did so of their own free will. In times of trouble true character is shown, Micah stepped up HUGE for this site. Any questions about him, should have been answered. I will be going line by line in case I missed any specific concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowderBlue Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 OK so can we have a direct yes or no answer of the trash talking of the forum directly from the vp? I've personally dealt with his snide comments in my threads and seen them in others as well. If he was directly down talking the site while in Control of building another, that is where my skepticism lies. I'm glad he got the site back up I will give credit where credit is due, but I'd rather not have someone with that much power in the vp spot who will so quickly trash the forums, build another, and start recruiting certain people. I am going to be the one that speaks the opinions and Concerns because I'm sure other have the same questions but don't have the heart or might be too afraid to hurt someone's feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 This thread may get deleted Always a great way to start a post. Infer some coverup... This is a fish site, there is no secret conspiracy to take over the fish club. Think about it. I mean... with all the power I could really make my SPS grow faster.... Come on now. I just have had numerous people messaging me because of their concerns and I feel like things are getting swept under the carpet. I am going to stick to the facts. I have numerous people texting me too, it's why I kept posting my phone number on facebook. Heck you even texted me about drywall, but you never reached out and asked about the site, I could have set your mind at ease much sooner. I don't know Micah and have never met him. With your leariness of him, I really believe this is true. I think while sarcastic and hilarious in person, he has a very good heart and we are glad to have him. Unfortunately these people that actually done work all this time to restore the site while other busy forming a rival site, were being ousted from admins position. Mr President and Bods need to sit down and take a hard look at what is going on here? Go with bylaws! People that already jump ship should not be in the position to control PNWMAS! No one was ousted they quit. Simple. There is even a resignation thread. They quit. I do have an issue with all this rival site talk. BP is a rival site, they destroy the reefs. Traditional Chineese Medicine is a rival site to me, grinding up protected species for viagra. I would consider Project Seahorse a rival site since they intentionally and blatantly distribute mis information. Trying to start a site as a "back up" while our site was down is not a rival to me. Any site who wishes to dedicate themselves to the advancement of knowledge on how to care and protect marine life is a friendly site to me. Many of you may not know, I work with another site. I just had my 10 year anniversary there and it was from that site that I was recruited here. Do you think I have a conflict of interest? Am I going to sabotage this site to promote my own? That is ridiculous. Rudy I am more concerned with why one of your employees during the time the site was down registered the domain PNWMAS.com. That is something we are going to have to discuss at a more appropriate time. No sooner was the site up after Adam uploaded it, Micah was suddenly given full admin rights and and the passwords were changed and Darryl and Softy no longer had access. This was not cleared with the rest of the board and IMO was a huge slap in the face to the current admins who had been working so hard to get the site up. I also feel like Micah was trying to suddenly take all the credit when he posted on the FB site I edited/ didn't quote Micahs response on facebook. If you knew him you would know that his offer was one to help, as shown by, well him helping all night. The site was not functioning when Micah was given rights and the appropriate security measures had not been implemented. My concerns are: Why would Micah suddenly be giving admin privileges without clearing it with the rest of the current admins or board giving that the site was just attacked? The current Admin team was consulted, they were the one who gave him the codes. It was especially urgent to have a security expert on the site after being attacked with the forum still being wide open. Why would you also give Micah full rein of the forum when he was trying to start a rival site? He is the elected VP of the site. He has done nothing wrong since being given the codes. His behavior thus far is beyond reproach. My problem is that this is a huge conflict of interest and a lack of loyalty for the current vice President of this forum to start a rival site and then be giving full rein of this site. We do not have a non compete clause. The issue of the other forum is widely misunderstood. You all can come to your own conclusions and make your own decisions but I just feel you have the right to know all the facts. I think heresay is more appropriate here then "the facts". Indeed, this is a major conflict of interest. How do we know that the group isn't going to get sabotaged to fulfill the needs of said rival site? I saw it while it was up and running yesterday. Only members so far were Ocean Revive, Cuttlefish, and the administrator. Unless we can get this addressed and resolved, I'm out. His work speaks for itself. You can say whatever, but actions speak volumes. He has tried to help since day one, and since being allowed to has done excellent work. It just has not been advertised because while this thread has taken place, he has been busy working. Micha all of a sudden has full rein, changes passwords etc and starts his own site. Just days after pnwmas went down? I don't hold anything against guys jumping ship to a new site, you want to go, go, but don't sit and play both ends of the field. That time line is a bit off. Micah changed passwords at the suggestion of the other Admins and myself to secure the site after he had already closed the back up site. Timeline makes a difference here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 All what we have been discussing about the issue facing PNWMAS is healthy. It is not healthy when we try to argue with each other, lets value each other opinion / voice and leave it that without any response. All of this is politic after the fact and I am sure the bods is busy talking about it. A much bigger issue is how the site went down. We were told that it was attacked / hacked. The information that came to me is that it was not attacked / hacked per say at all. Someone with admin password logged in to pnwmas site and deleting files and database to kill pnwmas site. This is concerning and why a person would have malicious intent like that for just a reef forum? That is more rumors, and is not true. It just goes to show how far a rumor can spread after it is repeated over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowderBlue Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Fair enough. Thank you for the upfront answer! I still have my own feelings toward him but as for this thread goes. I'll keep them in my own mind. Thank you for getting the site back up and I will sit back and quietly watch it all unfold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenbasketreef Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 "Rudy I am more concerned with why one of your employees during the time the site was down registered the domain PNWMAS.com. That is something we are going to have to discuss at a more appropriate time." Simple enough, as you talk here about how you would like things proactively done. Mattv register the pnwmas.com because he doesn't want anybody else has the change to have it that when the club needed to rebuild the site and need .com name is there and secure. He did that knowing that a person with admin password can accessed and destroy the site and anybody could messed around with the club name also. Please try to obtain email conversation in circulation from any of bod members. You will now how your admin team being called as, does the term "****turds" seems nice to you. On that email even stated that you are along with his idea, I hope it is not true. The intent and purpose of a new website is there in that email. That is why I say somebody put words on your mouth without you knowing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbau Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Thanks for the detailed info. After all of this I was going to show my support by actually becoming a paid member. I have tried to find the "join" link but have been unsuccessful. Can you advise as to how to access the join page? I clicked on the link provided in a notification I was sent but it just sent me to the main forum page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 rant rant rant.. sasquatch sasquatch sasquatch Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 I guess I delusional earlier when I said I wouldn't engage but I've read enough noise coming from certain individuals that it was impossible to not post Thanks for the posts/updates Pledo, thats a different version of what I was told- IMO if unless someone was personally involved in conversation or email, its all hear say, so please keep your opinions to your self, I'm pretty sure most of whats typed wouldn't be said in a face to face discussion. Kevin if you want a copy of the email Rudy speaks of send me a PM-We've all typed things we perhaps shouldn't and said things we may wish we could take back and IMO (after just reading that email) I'm pretty sure that part is taken out of context. As harsh as one sentence may been, it seemed fairly accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 rant rant rant.. sasquatch sasquatch sasquatch Done Nice (clap) Gotta love the random drive bys for levity rofl(highfive) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 I would love to see a copy of that email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 "Rudy I am more concerned with why one of your employees during the time the site was down registered the domain PNWMAS.com. That is something we are going to have to discuss at a more appropriate time." Simple enough, as you talk here about how you would like things proactively done. Mattv register the pnwmas.com because he doesn't want anybody else has the change to have it that when the club needed to rebuild the site and need .com name is there and secure. He did that knowing that a person with admin password can accessed and destroy the site and anybody could messed around with the club name also. Please try to obtain email conversation in circulation from any of bod members. You will now how your admin team being called as, does the term "****turds" seems nice to you. On that email even stated that you are along with his idea, I hope it is not true. The intent and purpose of a new website is there in that email. That is why I say somebody put words on your mouth without you knowing it. If that was his intent, THANK YOU. That is awesome. I am happy to reimburse Matt for the cost so the domain is owned by PNWMAS Please forward me this email. For clarification I have never been for dissolving this site and took a lot of flack for it very recently. I've been here for 8 years. Not going anywhere. kpfrenzel@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Thanks for the detailed info. After all of this I was going to show my support by actually becoming a paid member. I have tried to find the "join" link but have been unsuccessful. Can you advise as to how to access the join page? I clicked on the link provided in a notification I was sent but it just sent me to the main forum page? YOu might wanna give us a couple days. LOL We are neighbors though. I just moved to the real OC. Live off of Glen Oak. Need some friendly reef neighbors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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