Kimberlee Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 QFT! It's our job as a consumer to research the fish/animals we wish to buy. If you go buy a great dane and live in a one bedroom apartment with no yard; is it the job of the dog breeder to not sell you the dog because it will be miserable? Both parties have a certain responsibility when it comes to dealing live stock. If you don't love this hobby to begin w/ you shouldn't get into the retail side and if your not willing to be responsible for your purchases and live stock you shouldn't be in the hobby. Both parties are responsible....maybe us more so because we should expect a business to be out for the buck. With this hobby more so than others. We aren't dealing w/ gold fish or cats and dogs....we are keeping corals reefs something that is in decline and becoming endangered. Just my 2 cents, but to me this means we all LFS and hobbyist alike are obligated to be more responsible and educated about what we do than some one breeding or showing cats and dogs. If we can't do that than we have no right to sell to hobbyist or be in the hobby. This doesn't mean we can't make mistakes it just means we need to do the best we can not to repeat them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate213 Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Both parties have a certain responsibility when it comes to dealing live stock. If you don't love this hobby to begin w/ you shouldn't get into the retail side and if your not willing to be responsible for your purchases and live stock you shouldn't be in the hobby. Well said. Unfortunately most people are introduced to the hobby through their LFS and rely on them for the initial expertise. I would like to see a LFS have more educational tools to help people to new the hobby. Maybe a loaner library or some great website links? My LFS is uneducated. If you mention RODI water, refractometer or even protein skimmer to most of the employees they just give a blank stare. If you ask them what you need for a saltwater setup they will show you a Fluval filter and sell you a FW light. They also stock some of the worst fish possible. I have seen far more sweetlips, panther groupers, and copperband butterflies than anything suitable for someone new to the hobby. It drives me crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Austin works at one of the stores listed above so his response is expected. The store employee or owner should get to know each customer and ask questions, just like we the consumer should ask, but a LOT of consumers are relatively new or first timers, so who is really at fault? When I first started in the hobby MANY years ago, I got screwed numerous times by asking the wrong questions. The stores are trying to make money but a lot of them are short sighted and only see the initial cash, not the long term customer. I tend to buy stuff from one or two stores only, and I personally can't wait for Nick to get Rose City up and running again. I have been screwed at Cayes. Definitely screwed at Fanta-Seas, and my wife refuses to let me spend a penny at Upscales. Not because I got screwed there, more because a couple of owners/employees were so rude to us that she won't let me shop there again. Nick, Garrett, Travis at CB's, and Shaun Monahan are the only owners/employees who I will take advise from or buy stuff from. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberlee Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Nick, Garrett, Travis at CB's, and Shaun Monahan are the only owners/employees who I will take advise from or buy stuff from. Period. This is sad we all seem to feel this way about certain stores and owners/employees. I really hope that the LFS can take this thread w/ a grain of salt and use it to help us themselves and the hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowderBlue Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I don't think working at a store has any bearing on what was said, his response was well put. With such a hobby as the one we are in, a owner if a store should give correct advise on tank size etc, but to expect them to ask what's your tank size, how's your water, what's your live stock, to EVERY single customer is just not realistic. I've been in sales since I was 18, and when someone confidently walks in, tells me what they want, and is certain it will work for them, I will sell it to them. Now do I ask qualifying questions, yes, but some people no matter what you tell them will still buy something. It's not their job to know every customers tank info. Heck in 2 years I've had 3 different tank sizes, how can someone be expected to keep up with even me?! I've been to stores that don't ask anything, and I don't go back, Fantaseas has naturally talked me out of fish MANY times. Also told me to buy a smaller skimmer because I wouldn't need one so large. Upscales has been well at this with me also as long as I deal with Tom. I bought a fish today and was given good advice from Austin today with the purchase of my leaf fish, even told me he very well could eat my shrimp. Most stores won't do that. Moral of the story, "can't win em all." Randall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoobtoSalt Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 There is only one store I wont visit anymore dont really care if they have gotten better or not. Perfect quote. Never had an issue with OIAB, Cos has always treated me right and one of the only fish stores I have heard a owner respond to "will that tang go in my 40 gallon tank" With "no it wont". Unlike another store that the owner (i watched and heard this) say "Yeah, that clown tang will be fine in your 29 gallon tank". Wish i still felt that way at oiab. Used to shop only there, sent them a bunch of business and was treated poorly at the beginning of this year multiple times as well as belittled for shopping somewhere else. If Robert were still there they would have my business but i haven't stepped foot back in there since January and won't go back. I helped setup the shop, spent my days off helping etc with nothing but treated like dirt in return. I wish him luck and haven't posted about this anywhere until now but couldn't help myself. I drive to Salem and pay full retail for all the same stuff i could get less then five minutes away based on customer service. I will always pay more for service (not saying garretts prices are high btw). Anyways thats my rant. (laugh) glad he's taking care of someone there. Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriz2fer Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Upscales is hands down the best store in Oregon no matter what anyone says. I don't go to a Lfs to be guided with my fish purchase, I don't go there to be treated great, I go there to find the nicest livestock. If they are jerks and there Sps are looking amazing then I'm buying straight up. You should already know what your buying before you buy and not rely on them to stock your tank. Upscale have been in this buisness for a very long time and are known all over the country for there amazing Sps. That is probably the reason why Travis is not super great with his customer service, hes been here so Long with great success and a ton of business, hes not hungry anymore like some of the other guys struggling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowderBlue Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Agreed they have incredible corals, but that's not the full description of a retail store IMO, I was HIGHLY mistreated when I bought a powderblue tang from them that had ich, kept me out of the shop for almost a year. But I gave them a second chance but I rarely buy livestock from them. Coral and water is what I stick to. But every shop will have someone who has a horror story, but for a owner to be blatantly rude to my wife and I, that in my eyes does not make up for "nice coral." but Travis has been much nicer to deal with lately and has gained my business again. That says a lot. I think he has def come back around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberlee Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Sorry I can't agree w/ all that...I do agree you should know what you want and rely on yourself to make the right purchases, but if the service sucks I'm not giving them my money. Why should I when I can find what I'm looking for somewhere where they respect the fact it's the customers that pay their bills. Like you said we should already know what we want, and if we already know we can get it anywhere. So what's left for them to set themselves above other stores? Good customer service!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 In my opinion if a store is in the business to sell live animals they should care where those animals are going. The problem with business is once that customer leaves the store to do their own research they may never come back. The solution to save that sale is either to ask about specifics and offer alternatives or lie and tell them it will be fine. Some stores will do what's right and some won't. We will all form our own opinions about each store and will go there or we won't. It doesn't seem like any of them participate much here anymore so getting them to listen and change through discussion on these boards is probably not the best option, giving them feedback personally or not shopping there seems to be. I tend to deal with fellow reefers and on line businesses as I have had bad/not so great experiences at most of the stores I have been to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islandoftiki Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Interesting thread. Many valid points brought up. The ones I agree with most are the ones pertaining to us researching what is right for our tanks and choosing wisely. Understanding the limitations of our tanks and what we can and can't do takes an enormous amount of research and learning. I went the hard route. My first saltwater tank was a 2 gallon pico reef. I researched for months, and at the time I started it, there was not a ton of information about tanks this small. Most information came from online forums... reading hundreds and hundreds of posts and following what the successful people were doing, and more importantly, not doing. I would like to say, with the exception of a couple of odd failures, I got it pretty right from the get go, but it took months of learning before I was ready. Short story long... NONE of the local fish stores had ANY idea what was appropriate for a 2 gallon tank. Many though I was crazy to even attempt it. So, I never really got any advice from them because it was out of their realm of knowledge. So, I guess I was fortunate to start off with something that I knew nobody had a clue about and it was all on me to make the right decisions. I never got to blame anyone for the mistakes. They were all mine! And I wouldn't want it any other way. I did get to educate a few of the LFS about pico tanks, and they were all genuinely interested, but I wouldn't consider any of them knowledgeable about picos. Which is too bad, because there's a market that's just waiting to be tapped. How many people wouldn't love to have a little saltwater reef on their desk at work? I think what it boils down to is NO impulse purchases. Know what you're buying. Know how to care for it. That said... I miss the large selection of small frags that Rose City Aquarium always had. I can't wait for them to open! TPA always has a lot of good little frags, but I rarely make it down to Salem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocboat Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 Wow! This thread sure has taken a different path than what I originally asked. I have probably been to almost every shop that has been opened in the last 15 years and was just curious who was still around. I agree with a lot of what has been said about the responsibility of both parties and I have had my favorites as well as stores that I would never go into again because of the way I was treated. I miss Waves when Shaun owned it as well as when he sold it to Joel. I also remember Gateway Bob as well and a shop that opened for a very short time outside of Oregon City called Wendy's Saltwater and such with a massive cube tank. I just made it down to The Premium Aquarium for the first time in his new location and thought it was very nice. It just seems that there are less choices now than in the past, probably because of the economy. Thanks everyone for your responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwenReefin Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I've found that Upscales has the high end stuff that you gotta have. The TPA crew treats you like family, and if you get there before others have hit their shipments, you get some really nice stuff. BUT, I also hit up Coral Reef in Salem. The owner is really super friendly, and they have some decent stuff. Worth it if your are in Salem anyways!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberlee Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I've found that Upscales has the high end stuff that you gotta have. The TPA crew treats you like family' date=' and if you get there before others have hit their shipments, you get some really nice stuff. BUT, I also hit up Coral Reef in Salem. The owner is really super friendly, and they have some decent stuff. Worth it if your are in Salem anyways!![/quote'] As far as the coral reef goes...I volunteered there for a few months. I watched them sell countless fish from an order they had received. Not a big deal right?? Except he was selling them while he was treating them for a fungus. I also made suggestions as far as giving discounts to the club for things he had overstock of. ANd I Qoute" No one from the club does anything for me why would I offer them a discount" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 You are correct in one aspect. Can't win them all. We all have an opinion on who we want to spend our money with and who we don't. This is a relativelt small community of reefers here, and if you really want to keep good customers, you will spend the few seconds it takes to ask a customer a couple of key questions about what you are about to sell them. It builds a relationship that makes me or the customer feel comfortable. I'm so happy that you have had good experiences with the above mentioned stores. But do some searching on this forum about a couple of them. You may be a little surprised at what you find. I've known Tom for many years, since he worked for Shaun at Waves, and he has never steered me wrong. But our experience with the owner and his father at Upscales long ago has made my wife and I not want to shop there. Travis has nice stuff and I have heard that the attitude there has changed somewhat. Doesn't change our mind however. For my money, I would rather drive the 120 round trip miles to go somewhere that the owner and his employees are knowledgable and seem to genuinely care about me as a customer and a hobbyist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowderBlue Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 It's totally cool alterego (don't know your name sorry) we are all adults here, and I agree with you on your points you are making. Each of us have had our experience with most of the shops, some good, some bad, I just hope we all find someone or some shop, that will steer us in the right direction, treat us well, and help us enjoy this little piece of the ocean we keep in our living room!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Gateway Bob was awesome, an icon in the Portland saltwater community. Waves was the best store in the area when Shaun owned it. I still am honored to have him as a good friend. I can't wait for Rose City to open again. I actually have been spending a lot of time at CB's in Gresham. he is still getting going with corals, but he is a straight shooter and has really good prices. It also helps that he is about 5 minutes from my house LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Flenderson Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 As far as the coral reef goes...I volunteered there for a few months. I watched them sell countless fish from an order they had received. Not a big deal right?? Except he was selling them while he was treating them for a fungus. I also made suggestions as far as giving discounts to the club for things he had overstock of. And I Qoute" No one from the club does anything for me why would I offer them a discount" I can sort of understand the logic of what Travis is talking about but i do not condone it. In my business, club members spend the least and take the most and then ask for a discount at the end. God forbid you deny because you will get railed on the forums. Took me a long time to realize that giving your time(and time is an expensive thing in any business) to others to help them without expecting return is the right thing to do for the hobby and the community and will result in an over all better business. As for the selling of fish while being treated? Thats just wrong lazy and wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I can sort of understand the logic of what Travis is talking about but i do not condone it. In my business, club members spend the least and take the most and then ask for a discount at the end. God forbid you deny because you will get railed on the forums. Took me a long time to realize that giving your time(and time is an expensive thing in any business) to others to help them without expecting return is the right thing to do for the hobby and the community and will result in an over all better business. As for the selling of fish while being treated? Thats just wrong lazy and wrong. Totally. When I was a paying member of the PNWMAS, I never asked for the club discount. We all should be aware that the LFS is a dying breed, and even 10% makes the difference of maybe eating that week or going bankrupt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberlee Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I can sort of understand the logic of what Travis is talking about but i do not condone it. In my business, club members spend the least and take the most and then ask for a discount at the end. God forbid you deny because you will get railed on the forums. Took me a long time to realize that giving your time(and time is an expensive thing in any business) to others to help them without expecting return is the right thing to do for the hobby and the community and will result in an over all better business. As for the selling of fish while being treated? Thats just wrong lazy and wrong. I'd like to point out that it was about a year ago that I volunteered there and am just now saying anything. I am not trying to rail anyone, I say something now because I do feel the club should know that about this store instead of being under the misconception that the store does the best they can to sell quality livestock or that they support the club. Oh and for the record I have yet to remember to ask for said discount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Flenderson Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I'd like to point out that it was about a year ago that I volunteered there and am just now saying anything. I am not trying to rail anyone' date=' I say something now because I do feel the club should know that about this store instead of being under the misconception that the store does the best they can to sell quality livestock or that they support the club. Oh and for the record I have yet to remember to ask for said discount.[/quote'] I defiantly didn't mean to imply that you were doing the railing. This seems like a healthy discussion about our local shops with no grudge posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberlee Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 No Harm done I love this whole club sponsor and members. We need and should be able to have these threads. I think they're are good for both sides of the coin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YUP Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 My understanding is that "the coral reef" is under new ownership... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald525 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Props to everyone for keeping this thread civil. It has gotten a little off track from the original topic but this was obviously a conversation that was on a lot of people's minds. There are a lot of good points. It's nice that we can have conversations like these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriz2fer Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Ok my top favs for lfs are Saltwater fantasies Premium aquarium Upscales Those are the ones I shop at the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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