ReefStar Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Your wrong about the heater not being an issue and have talked to so many people who switch to LEDs and they thought they were gonna save more money and in the end there 300 watt heater killed all the saving they had from LEDs. Have you ever did the math on your electricity cost from the tank? The heater is a huge factor and lighs are another, LEDs saving should only account for larger tanks who run higher watts of metal halide and require a chiller. All in all I think leds are great and many people have success and many people have failed, the technology is still young and until then I'll stick with radiums or I might be buying and ati fixture in a month or so. I know you have your mind set already but I would like to give you some facts on my process of developing my LED unit. The heater factor is not that great because if your house temp is set at 70-72 degrees the heater would not be a big factor. Couple factors I considered; PAR, coverage, color spectrum, shimmer, aesthetic. I think T-5 is great but they don't have the shimmer factor. They also don't have that much penetration for deeper tanks. It is a easier light to use. Metal halide is what most people use but power and heat factor is the concern. You said the Radium mh bulb is one of the best and I do agree. Here is a spectrum graph of a Radium 400w 20k bulb. Here is a spectrum graph of the Reef Star 120w If you look at both graph it is pretty close. If I can replicate the spectrum of one of the best bulb out there, why wouldn't it be good enough? The PAR reading is more than enough to grow SPS in a 30" tank as some member on this forum can vouch for. With LED, I have a the ability to add different LED to get the right spectrum and take out color on the spectrum which I don't want; like the one that grows nuisance algae. More PAR, less PAR, more spread, different color liking, depth penetration on deep tanks; "FLEXIBILITY is the the key!" So with LED I can get less power consumption, less heat, good coverage, good spectrum, high PAR, shimmer factor, no bulb change, flexibility, all in a plug and play unit! That is why LED is getting pretty popular and the way of the future. As for browning issues. Just because people can't feel the heat of the LED, they think it is not that strong and throw the new unit on their tank at full blast with same time cycle. Acclimation, acclimation!! Just like any new stuff to the tank, you need to acclimate it and let the coral get use to it. I can't stress enough on acclimation. There also 100s of different factors but for a new LED light, acclimation is a big factor. If you have any other question on the LED side feel free to pm me. If you want to compare wattage for wattage between LED vs mh, I want to show you what I can do with a 500w LED unit on a 60g tank!(laugh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReefStar Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I can't get my spectrum graph that is a pdf file to show on last post, can someone please help me. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriz2fer Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Don't get me wrong man, I have nothing against your leds and I might even buy one to try out on a frag tank. I was talking about me actually saving money on switching to full LEDs and I don't think the savings is worth it. I would use about 300 watts of leds or 430 watts of ati. Thats only a 130 watt difference and the ati is one of the most proven fixture on the market to grow nice sps I have ever seen. Almost all the zeovit tanks in Europe run that fixture and have amazing colors and growth. Also with the ati there is very little heat transferred to the tank because there fans recirculating and it blow all the hot air out the side. Btw are these the same white ones you had at your house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReefStar Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 No offense taken. This is all new and we all are learning. I just don't think T5 have the natural shimmer effect which you get from other lighting. I never had a white fixture. On your tank, I can probably go with one of my 180w unit. What is you dimension of your tank? What is the dimensions of the nice tank you are looking at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omarortiz Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Well, I gave it a go and the board put it in as an attachment. But at least it is in jpeg format now. Spectral plot... [ATTACH]12390[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilliroo Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 The ATI is a really nice fixture. We had one over our Solana, and we definitely saw our energy consumption go down pretty dramatically when we switched from halides. We just switched from T5s to LEDs a week ago on our 90G, and I have to say that I really like how the LEDs look. It's nice to be able to dial in just the color you're looking for, and the colors really pop. The shimmer is nice too, and everything looks really clear. We haven't fried any corals yet, but we're being cautious and have kept the levels at 45% or lower until everything acclimates. We're using a secondhand AI Sol setup, and it's super quiet, even with the fans running. I love how adjustable everything is, and how crisp everything looks. The shimmer is nice, and it's also nice not having to replace bulbs every 6 months. I think each system has its pros and cons, and a lot of it comes down to personal preference. Having used all three types of lighting, I can say that I am really enjoying the LEDs. I liked the T5s too, and I'm not sure I would have switched if we weren't swapping out tanks and changing the whole setup right now too. But so far, I'm glad I made the switch. Also, apparently the AI Sol has a "thunderstorm" mode. I haven't figured out how to program it yet, but my 8 year old is super excited about that feature. Gillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriz2fer Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Your right t5 have no shimmer and that sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 You ever hear of how reports or people that perform interviews can edit and as such take things out of context (scratch) below is an example of that Your right t5 sucks. No offense meant Kriz2fer so hopefully none taken, its just the door was open and I am an opportunist This thread is becoming amusing- It reminds me of the old threads before LEDs where even around where the age old question " Metal Halide or T5-which is better?" And then some people would post facts but in was more an opinionated thread As Kriz2fer sated a few posts back, something about large systems and LEDs-that was my sole purpose/reason for switching and all I can say is I am glad I did, but had I not been going big, I would have probably stayed where I was, using MH Where are the pics of the Unicorns and Double Rainbows-(scratch) anyway back to our regularly scheduled program (and work) (popcorn) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReefStar Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Well, I gave it a go and the board put it in as an attachment. But at least it is in jpeg format now. Spectral plot... [ATTACH]12390[/ATTACH] Thanks, omarortiz! I can load the jpg straight now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trautman Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Epic1 (Kenny), what is on the Y-Axis on the graph of your unit? It doesn't match the units of the Radium's graph. Although it could just be a unit system up from nm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReefStar Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 lol, I thought the same when I looked at it. It represents the intensity percentage. .2 or 20%. I mainly focused on the wavelength and where the spectrum is at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iroll253 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I like to use a variety of lighting mine goes x8 3w royal blue crees 9am-9pm >4x24'' ati blue +'s 11am-7pm , 150W halide 1pm-5pm. It does get expensive I guess but this whole hobby isn't exactly cheap. Its cool to see the different light cycles throughout the day though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoobtoSalt Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 What a waste. Why would you waste your hard earned cash on some cheap imitation led lighting system.....(whistle) Everyone knows that the more wattage you use in your tank the better growth your going to have. I personally like an 8k look. The brown just looks amazing in the tank....(laugh) Alright so back to this LED vs halide. I have run them all and hands down the color spectrum is the best with my led's. I didn't go with a cheap setup with 1 watt leds though. And I see a huge amount of savings going to LED's. That being said I went from a 240 gallon tank (300 gallons total) to a 29 gallon biocube.. Either way LED's are the way to go as long as you don't get one of the cheaper setups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Not sure if I understand but the Reefstars are anything but cheap LED lights. 1 watts do not mean they are cheap. I have the 1 watts over my 300 48x48 30 deep and have no problems with penetration. Mots fixtures that run 3 watts run fewer LED's. With less the color shift from white to blue is not as clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoobtoSalt Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Not sure if I understand but the Reefstars are anything but cheap LED lights. 1 watts do not mean they are cheap. I have the 1 watts over my 300 48x48 30 deep and have no problems with penetration. Mots fixtures that run 3 watts run fewer LED's. With less the color shift from white to blue is not as clean. I actually had no idea that the reefstar units were only 1 watt leds. It was more meant towards the cheap ones that people get shipped from China for $200 each. I was using some other units that many people here on the forum are using and I didn't care for the color of them. I decided to do a diy unit so I had more say as to what was going into the lighting. Sorry wasn't trying to talk smack about his units as I have heard great things about them. My point was just that not all led's are created equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaman30k Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I must say this is a very interesting read. I have to clown on myself here a little and say it reminds me of the Android vs Apple thread. Lol I was so naive then. :screwy: That being said I love my radion LED fixture!!! I personally wouldn't trade it for any other current light on the market. To start I've used all three light types and each have proven successful for their respective needs. They also all have proven success right here in our club for instance here are three sps tanks ran by 3 different lighting methods. Mikev - DIY LED setup from Rapidled Madmike - 2 8' ATI t5 fixtures Smann - 400w mh I based my decision on energy savings and life span of the equipment plus the built in controller and color spectrum. Granted I occasionally see my heater kick on and the initial cost was much more then say buying an electronic ballast, fixture and bulb. The log term savings would be greater not having to buy new bulbs every year as well as not having to run my Chiller or the biggest energy consumer my heat pump for the house. I looked at going a DIY setup which I still like for the ultimate customization but when I priced out what it would cost to make a fixture like the radion it was not much less and required the time to put the fixture together as well as the chance that many more parts could fail with little warranty. So I opted to go with one that had a wide spectrum of colors, intensity and aesthetics. Each setup will be different and each persons desires will be different. The only light I have personally never had luck with is T5's but that's not to say a good T5 fixture can't grow beautiful coral. Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasasah Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I don't know as much as I would like about reef tanks but I do you know why they use LED's for fog lights on cars. Penetration... I haven't even got my LEDs for my tank and i know they are gonna kick the crap out of my T5s and save on power with watts per lumen. But back to fog lights. You know when it's foggy and you turn your brights on and it's worse? Well, when you turn on your LED fog lights(If you have them) it penetrates right through the fog. It's a straight beam of light instead of a bulb reflecting off metal which is making a wall of lights. There's no argument to the fact that if you took a MH and a LED of the same watt or lumen equivalent the LED would penetrate more. I haven't tested it but the auto industries obviously have for safety reasons with fog. Plus, LEDs do last longer. No manufacturer i've ever heard of straight out said they last 10 years. It's 5-7 or 7-10 depending on how cool the LED's are kept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 That is one of the biggest things when talking MH,T-5 to LED's. MH,T-5 are single point of light LED's are a mulit point of light. I have read lots of articles and most of them say it like comparing apples to oranges yes they both come from trees but that is all. This is why you get more par and better penetration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewey McLovit Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I'm working on my 55 CREE LED unit from ReefLED and i can't wait to get them fired up and fry the s**t out of some mushrooms too high in my tank! I'll let you know just how fast my SPS grow! (drooler) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 One thing I have seen and heard of is the SPS turning brown. So I have been running LED's now almost 2 months some of my SPS turn the nice shade of brown. Not sure if this is from moving tanks or changing lights. What I have seen now is the color coming back nicer than it was before. I think this is were LED's get a bad rep is pepole see the corals turn brown and dont give them a chance to recover and change back to there old lighting. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeramy Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I think that is a product of the corals adjusting to the led lighting =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasasah Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 One thing I have seen and heard of is the SPS turning brown. So I have been running LED's now almost 2 months some of my SPS turn the nice shade of brown. Not sure if this is from moving tanks or changing lights. What I have seen now is the color coming back nicer than it was before. I think this is were LED's get a bad rep is pepole see the corals turn brown and dont give them a chance to recover and change back to there old lighting. Just a thought. Yeah, They probably turn brown because the light is so much more intense. I'm glad i'm going to have LED's before i get a lot of coral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriz2fer Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Before any misinformation gets spread, leds are not know to have more par than mh. There is hundreds of par reading from both. Have you seen the par from my 250 watt radium? I have 500 par on the sand bed, tell me how many of you led guys have par higher then that. Don't forget Danik too he's running radiums and has one of the nicest tanks I have ever seen in person. Also all the show tanks at upscales running radiums. Just about all the Lfs with nice show tanks are running radiums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaman30k Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Steve and I will be taking some par readings under the radion here soon. Once we gather that data I would love to share what we find here for everyone to take a look at. Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasasah Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Before any misinformation gets spread, leds are not know to have more par than mh. There is hundreds of par reading from both. Have you seen the par from my 250 watt radium? I have 500 par on the sand bed, tell me how many of you led guys have par higher then that. Don't forget Danik too he's running radiums and has one of the nicest tanks I have ever seen in person. Also all the show tanks at upscales running radiums. Just about all the Lfs with nice show tanks are running radiums. I guarentee a 250 watt led panel would destroy a 250 watt mh. With way less heat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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