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My Battle with Dinos


obrien.david.j

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2 hours ago, Eatfrenchfries said:

Currently using portable USB powered air pumps from DHgate at $1.78 a unit and I've had them for over a year with no issues. Paired them with a USB charging splitter to manually control each one.

I bought 30 my first time around and I'm using almost all of them continuously for projects. 

They are also available on Amazon for a few dollars more. 

Looks like going rate is about $8 each, unless I by 50 units - at around $5 each.  Sounds like you found a deal at <$2/ea.

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

Harvest #30 complete (March 5th)

  • Continuing to add mid-grow fertilizer kicker.   
  • First harvest of new Tetraselmis culture
  • Jar 1 / Jar 5 experiment is interesting
  • Copepod cultures continue to be fed PhytoFeast.   They eat more than I realize!

Phyto:

  • Nannochloropsis Oculata  (Original Culture, from Poseidon Reef)  <-- 4 gallon jars
  • Tetraselmis (new culture from @Eatfrenchfries) <-- 1 gallon jar

Copepods:

  • Tisbe (Original Culture, from Poseidon Reef) <-- 1 gallon jar
  • Tigriopus (new culture from @Eatfrenchfries) <-- 1 gallon jar

Experiment:  Does air supply matter?

  • Swapped Cap/Air Supply between Jar 1 & 5   (Jar 5 had black airhose, now Jar 1 has the black airhose)
  • CONCLUSION - Air Supply Matters!  
    • Jar 5 is the lightest (previously darkest, now has Jar 1st air supply/cap)
      • Secchi score 10
    • Jar 1 is the darkest (previously the lightest, now has Jar 5ths original air supply/cap)
      • Secchi score 22

Left is Jar 5, Right is Jar 1 -   It's that obvious.

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I think having a strong sir supply is important. Roiling boil should be big bubbles. Insane how much abuse the phyto can take. Small bubbles are the death of phytoplankton. I try to use air pumps rated for at least double my volume. 4x if I'm teeing off. 

Airline tubing I generally use clear tubes with low flexibility. Easier to see if they are dirtier and alcohol doesn't do the trick anymore. Black is nice because you won't have growth back up your lines. Airline tubing is cheap and replaceable. 

You're right. Pods eat an insane amount of phytoplankton. Especially if you're trying to keep your #s high continuously. Currently making 42 gallons of phyto with 2/3 of that dedicated to 60 gallons of zooplankton.

Live phyto is the best main food but a good supplement I've found is dried spirulna powder, works if you're down on phyto or just boost your #s. A little goes a long way. Not worth culturing your own though. Just don't dose it to your main tanks. I learned the hard way. This works best for pelagic pods, the benthic ones appreciate filter food (roids, blizzard, chili. Just dirties the water fast). RG COMPLETE is a good backup as well

Also feeding  too much phyto too fast will clump and prevent successful molts.  Mostly they just eat it really fast and starve). Another option is to just harvest the pods, replace with the same water you sieved and dial back the amount of phyto fed. I do it when the average temperature is too cold in my room. Cysts are resilient. 

 

 

Edited by Eatfrenchfries
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14 hours ago, Eatfrenchfries said:

You're right. Pods eat an insane amount of phytoplankton. Especially if you're trying to keep your #s high continuously. Currently making 42 gallons of phyto with 2/3 of that dedicated to 60 gallons of zooplankton.

Live phyto is the best main food but a good supplement I've found is dried spirulna powder, works if you're down on phyto or just boost your #s. A little goes a long way. Not worth culturing your own though. Just don't dose it to your main tanks. I learned the hard way. This works best for pelagic pods, the benthic ones appreciate filter food (roids, blizzard, chili. Just dirties the water fast). RG COMPLETE is a good backup as well

Punch line, I'm moving to daily feedings.  (from every 3-5days, from previously every 7-10 days)

Food choices, life phyto as first choice.  I've heard of using Dried Spirulna.   Between PhytoFeast and RGComplete, which would be first choice?

 

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Oof that's a tough one. I personally like RG complete because it comes with ph buffer and ammonia neutralizer. Helps to reduce foam buildup to prolong water changes. Foam is a sign of ammonia. 

I believe live/dead phyto feast is good for feeding but RG complete seems better for culturing purposes. Slightly cheaper as well. 

Reed mariculture owns reef nutrition so it's not like the quality will be different. I think RG complete contains other compounds as well for nutritional purposes. The phyto feast covers diversity. 

In the end. Pods aren't picky. 

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51 minutes ago, Eatfrenchfries said:

Oof that's a tough one. I personally like RG complete because it comes with ph buffer and ammonia neutralizer. Helps to reduce foam buildup to prolong water changes. Foam is a sign of ammonia. 

I believe live/dead phyto feast is good for feeding but RG complete seems better for culturing purposes. Slightly cheaper as well. 

Reed mariculture owns reef nutrition so it's not like the quality will be different. I think RG complete contains other compounds as well for nutritional purposes. The phyto feast covers diversity. 

In the end. Pods aren't picky. 

I just bought a new bottle of PhytoFeast.  So until it's gone...  No decision needed.   

Thanks for your coaching and inputs.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Harvest #31 complete (March 22th)

  • Continuing to add mid-grow fertilizer kicker.   
  • Second harvest of new Tetraselmis culture -- Like this stuff.
    • Restarted cultures with 3 nanno/2 tetra (was 4 nanno/1 tetra)
  • Copepod cultures continue to be fed PhytoFeast.   I'm feeding them almost daily now.  
    • Got a nice Copepod harvest!

Phyto:

  • Nannochloropsis Oculata  (Original Culture, from Poseidon Reef)  <-- 4 gallon jars (dropped to 3 on restart)
  • Tetraselmis (new culture from @Eatfrenchfries) <-- 1 gallon jar (increased to 2 on restart)

Copepods:

  • Tisbe (Original Culture, from Poseidon Reef) <-- 1 gallon jar
  • Tigriopus (new culture from @Eatfrenchfries) <-- 1 gallon jar

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Animated GIF of Tigri pods.   They're Big and Active

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  • 3 weeks later...

Harvest #32 complete (April 10th)

  • Continuing to add mid-grow fertilizer kicker.   
  • Third harvest of new Tetraselmis culture -- Like this stuff.
    • Restarted cultures with 3 nanno/2 tetra (was 4 nanno/1 tetra)
  • Copepod cultures continue to be fed PhytoFeast.   I'm feeding them almost daily now.  
    • Culture is rich

Phyto:

  • Nannochloropsis Oculata  (Original Culture, from Poseidon Reef)  <-- 3 gallon jars
  • Tetraselmis (new culture from @Eatfrenchfries) <-- 2 gallon jars

Copepods:  HARVESTING TONIGHT, ran out of time last night

  • Tisbe (Original Culture, from Poseidon Reef) <-- 1 gallon jar
  • Tigriopus (new culture from @Eatfrenchfries) <-- 1 gallon jar

 

Before Harvest

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After Harvest

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Pod Teaser - these are Tigriopus pods

 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Eatfrenchfries said:

Are you adding the mid-grow fertilizer kick to the Tetraselmis as well?

I found that when I used too much culture to start a new batch that it would end up burning through the F/2 much faster, yellowing/clear. 

I am doing the same mid-grow fert kicker to both cultures.   And I'm restarting both cultures with the same amount of starter.   

Harvest Phyto, set some aside to restart each batch.   Same starter Phyto, same Initial fert, same kicker fert.

  • 250ml of starter, per gallon jar
  • 2ml of A + 2ml of B as initial fert
  • 2ml of A + 2ml of B as kicker fert, at the ~7 day point

 

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18 minutes ago, Eatfrenchfries said:

I've been trying to wrap my head around the need for mid-grow fertilizer. 

Maybe the Poseidon Reef System is too efficient with certain strains of phytoplankton. 

Any chance their fert is weak?  - I'm using Their mix exclusively.

I read a post on R2R recently of someone using Poseidon Reef, and they were geting too weak of grows.   And if they let them go two weeks, they crashed.  (for what looked to me as starving)

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It is a possibility that their fertilizer is diluted more than needed.

The way it goes is one part contains trace elements and the other part contains major nutrients each mixed with RODI. They do this to leave less margin of error for dosing one really concentrated solutions versus two less concentrated. I believe the opposite to be true most of the time. 

*(hydrochloric acid can be used to lower pH to prolong shelf life. There is a good chance that the concentrates are separated to prevent unwanted growth in an unfortunate scenario. You'd have to allow for some sort of outside contamination for this to happen. Usually it is bacteria that kind of looks like black beard algae).

The only reason I can imagine they separate them is to avoid precipitate that naturally happens over time (solution:shake well). Never have I had an issue with elements "binding" in the solution rendering it less than ideal. Obviously I use always before the recommended shelf life but I've pulled F/2 over a year old and used it with no issue. Just separated in a few layers, a little heat + stirring and it was good as new. 

 

At the next meeting I can bring some F/2 if you'd like to try. Been playing with pasteurization techniques + micron filters. 

If you're really dire to try something then you could make a knockoff with any liquid trace + iron + N (16) + P (1). 

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11 hours ago, Eatfrenchfries said:

At the next meeting I can bring some F/2 if you'd like to try. Been playing with pasteurization techniques + micron filters. 

If you're really dire to try something then you could make a knockoff with any liquid trace + iron + N (16) + P (1). 

I've still got a good supply of fert, last order I doubled the size.   I used 10ml/wk/A + 10ml/wk/B (5 jars * 2ml/jar of each A&B)    

Bring some of your F/2 to Woody's, I'll be there.  And let's talk about dose rate at the meeting.

** Accuracy correction... I may be using "gallon jars", but I use a 3liter container when harvesting and restarting.   Each culture just fills this.   So each culture is actually 3L/~0.8gal volume of liquid. **

BTW - I find this "measuring jug" really handy.  slightly shorter, and slightly wider base, means it's less likely to accidently get knocked over.  And pours well.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UZL2AO8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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  • 2 weeks later...

Harvest #33 complete (April 25th)

  • Continuing to add mid-grow fertilizer kicker.   
  • Copepod cultures continue to be fed PhytoFeast.   I'm feeding them almost daily now.  
    • harvested and restarted pods
  • Trying Fertilizer Experiment
    • Poseidon Reef fertilizer, used exclusively up to now.  (2ml/jar A + 2ml/jar B)
    • @Eatfrenchfries provided F/2 fert  (1ml/jar)
      • Going to skip mid-grow kicker on the F/2 jars

Phyto:

  • Nannochloropsis Oculata  (Original Culture, from Poseidon Reef)  <-- 3 gallon jars
  • Tetraselmis (new culture from @Eatfrenchfries) <-- 2 gallon jars

Copepods:  

  • Tisbe (Original Culture, from Poseidon Reef) <-- 1 gallon jar
  • Tigriopus (new culture from @Eatfrenchfries) <-- 1 gallon jar

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  • 2 weeks later...

Mid cycle Fertilizer Experiment update

  • Poseidon Reef fertilizer, used exclusively up to now.  (2ml/jar A + 2ml/jar B)
  • @Eatfrenchfries provided F/2 fert  (1ml/jar)
    • Going to skip mid-grow kicker on the F/2 jars

Added the mid-cycle kicker to the Poseidon Reef fert jar two days ago.    Tetraselmis jars are easiest to see and take side by side picture, but punch line - @Eatfrenchfries - your jar is looking a little light, my mid cycle kicked jar is continuing to darken.

These cultures have about another week.

 

(Left Jar = @Eatfrenchfries F/2, Right Jar = Poseidon Reef Fert, 2 days after 2nd dose)

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Huh. I've been struggling to figure out what the limiting factor is. 

Someone else who had the Poseidon Reef system also mentioned a similar expierence when trying out my fertilizer and the Florida Aqua Farms which are both one part solutions mixed to use. 

They had luck trying Fritz Two Part F/2 with their Poseidon Reef systems but they do not have the same issue as you for needing to add extra fertilizer during mid cycle. 

 

I have TNC complete, Mercer Montana, and Florida Aqua Farms fertilizer all on hand if you want to do another experiment to see. 

 

Sadly I don't have a Poseidon to test. 

 

I did launch another 8x1 gallon culture project that I used the fertilizer on and found that the location I chose regularly reached 80s due to light distance. (Normally my cultures run 68 - 72 to maintain calculated rates and cell sizes, Pavlova also doesn't like higher temperatures so it was easier to run everything cooler.  Experimenting with this phyto because it is able to be refrigerated while other strains suffer in value). I had to adjust fertilizer usage to account for the increased production rates. Considering to just harvest 1.5 days early to maintain nutritional values versus calculating the curve and catching it. 

The yellowish light makes it look like the Tetra is starving. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Eatfrenchfries said:

Huh. I've been struggling to figure out what the limiting factor is. 

Someone else who had the Poseidon Reef system also mentioned a similar expierence when trying out my fertilizer and the Florida Aqua Farms which are both one part solutions mixed to use. 

They had luck trying Fritz Two Part F/2 with their Poseidon Reef systems but they do not have the same issue as you for needing to add extra fertilizer during mid cycle. 

 

I have TNC complete, Mercer Montana, and Florida Aqua Farms fertilizer all on hand if you want to do another experiment to see. 

 

Sadly I don't have a Poseidon to test. 

 

I did launch another 8x1 gallon culture project that I used the fertilizer on and found that the location I chose regularly reached 80s due to light distance. (Normally my cultures run 68 - 72 to maintain calculated rates and cell sizes, Pavlova also doesn't like higher temperatures so it was easier to run everything cooler.  Experimenting with this phyto because it is able to be refrigerated while other strains suffer in value). I had to adjust fertilizer usage to account for the increased production rates. Considering to just harvest 1.5 days early to maintain nutritional values versus calculating the curve and catching it. 

The yellowish light makes it look like the Tetra is starving. 

I'll look for a thermometer, and see what end of day temps are in the jar (after lights have been on max).  We run the house around 60F overnight, which is when the lights are off - so they'll have a time cool off.

I have extra Poseidon Fert I can give you.   Last time I placed an order, i bought spare.   I can bring it to the next club meeting (at the coral show) or we can meet offline.

 

Took your comment to heart about Yellow indicates starving, just gave a mid cycle kicker of YOUR F/2 to both the experiment Tetra and experiment Nanno jars.   Instructions say 1ml/0.66gal.  which is 1ml/jar.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Harvest #34 complete (May 17th)

  • Continuing to add mid-grow fertilizer kicker.   
  • Copepod cultures continue to be fed PhytoFeast, feeding daily.  
    • harvested and restarted pods
  • Ending Fertilizer Experiment, Poseidon Reef Fert For-the-Win
    • Poseidon Reef fertilizer, produced superior results
    • @Eatfrenchfries provided F/2 fert - turned too yellow and week
      • Changed plans mid stream and also did mid cycle kicker.  wasn't enough

Phyto:

  • Nannochloropsis Oculata  (Original Culture, from Poseidon Reef)  <-- 3 gallon jars
  • Tetraselmis (new culture from @Eatfrenchfries) <-- 2 gallon jars

Copepods:  

  • Tisbe (Original Culture, from Poseidon Reef) <-- 1 gallon jar
  • Tigriopus (new culture from @Eatfrenchfries) <-- 1 gallon jar

 

Fertilizer Experiment results.   Poseidon Reef on the Right (darker), F/2 fert on Left (lighter)

Tetra

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Nanno

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Tisbe Pods and overall culture setup, pre-harvest

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  • 4 weeks later...

Harvest #35 complete (June 9th)

  • Continuing to add mid-grow fertilizer kicker.   
  • Copepod cultures continue to be fed PhytoFeast, feeding daily.  
    • harvested and restarted pods
  • This grow was 100% Poseidon Reef Fertilizer, and we're back with fully dark/dense cultures

Phyto:

  • Nannochloropsis Oculata  (Original Culture, from Poseidon Reef)  <-- 3 gallon jars
  • Tetraselmis (culture from @Eatfrenchfries) <-- 2 gallon jars

Copepods:  

  • Tisbe (Original Culture, from Poseidon Reef) <-- 1 gallon jar
  • Tigriopus (culture from @Eatfrenchfries) <-- 1 gallon jar

 

Getting ready to harvest

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Harvest Results, look how dark these are

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Pod Harvest

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  • 2 weeks later...

Harvest #36 complete (June 25th)

- Easy Summary, no change to procedures, same good results.

- BUT, harvested Tigri pods and started an extra 5 gallon grow container in the fish room.  Will keep feeding PhytoFeast, but also bought some Spirulina powder to augment.

  • This grow was 100% Poseidon Reef Fertilizer, and we're back with fully dark/dense cultures

Phyto:

  • Nannochloropsis Oculata  (Original Culture, from Poseidon Reef)  <-- 3 gallon jars
  • Tetraselmis (culture from @Eatfrenchfries) <-- 2 gallon jars

Copepods:  

New 5 Gallon Tigriopus Pod Jar & Phyto Harvest

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