pH help

[impur]

Nyles has been helping me with my pH problems, but there are things going on that i hoped someone could explain to me. Also if you have ANY other ideas to help with this problem i would very much appreciate the input.

 

It started 3-4 weeks ago. I bought new salt. I had started dosing prodibio and thought i overdosed. So i began doing large WCs to dilute it. Around the same time i put my CA reactor online. Soon after my SPS started to STN. I expect to lose all but a couple frags. The final straw was when i woke up to see the pH sitting at 7.6. At this point i added 1/2 teaspoon kalk per gallon of RO to my topoff water and shut down the reactor. My pH has raised to 7.8 at night and 8.1 during the day. Thats the highest its gotten.

 

So 2 days ago i started a batch of NSW for my WC. I decided to test the pH. 7.8. [language filter]. So i added 1/2 teaspoon kalk to the ~15gal of NSW. The pH rose to 8.5, good! The next day the mjmod i use to mix the WC water stopped. When i got home the pH was 7.5. Ugh. I tossed in a pump with a venturi and a few hours later the pH was up to 7.9 so i went to bed and left the pump running hoping for 8.3 in the morning. Woke up, 7.85, it actually went back down!! What the heck?

 

My alk had shot up to 10.6 at one point while the reactor was running, but i've got that back in line at 8.6Dkh, calcium is 450ppm.

 

So my plan of attack at this point: I opened up the other jug of salt and mixed up a batch. I'll know the pH later today. If its low like the other, i'm going to pickup some IO and just supplement alk/ca. I will refill my topoff container with RO and kalk at 2 teaspoons per gallon. Reactor is staying off until this is fixed.

 

My questions:

 

1. Why won't the WC water pH go back up even after 10+ hours of aeration?

2. Why would the WC water pH rise to 7.9 in a few hours, then DROP to 7.85 after 10+ hrs.

3. Will upping the amount of kalk in my topoff help the pH of the tank anymore?

4. Any other ideas to help raise my pH?

5. Would you add/remove anything from my plan of attack?

 

Thanks for your time and any input on this.

 

 

Miles

[siskiou]

I'm so sorry to hear about the SPS going downhill again!

Everything was doing so well!

 

The salt is the same type you've been using, right?

What was your pH before you started up the calcium reactor again?

Those are known to lower the pH, right?

 

But the salt should bring the pH to something around 8.3, not just 7.9, in my opinion.

Unless you are keeping the SG really low.

 

Sorry, I don't have any helpful ideas beyond what you are already trying.

Have you stopped the Prodibio for now?

 

I believe once the RO water is saturated with Kalk, it won't do any good to add more.

[impur]

Its a brand new jug of Oceanic, the same type i've been using but this is a new batch and from what we learned from Borneman's salt study, Oceanic is the salt with the move inconsistancies.

 

pH before i put the reactor on was 8.1 night 8.3 day. Yes the CO2 in the reactor drives down the pH.

 

The newly mixed salt should mix up around 8.3ish. I keep my SG at 35ppt.

 

I'm not dosing prodibio until this is solved.

[180Brandy]

Have you checked the mag,alk levels?

[impur]

Alk of the tank is 8.6dKH. Alk of WC water 10.0dKH (this is after adding kalk). Alk of newly made WC water from seperate salt jug 9.0dKH.

 

I do not test mg.

[180Brandy]

The reason I ask this is because like with my tank, If my ph is low then something else is also out of wack.

[Michael7979]

Test for Mg. and see what it is. Mine was low and my ph was low also.

 

It helpped raise ph a little but not a lot. Shot for 1400-1500 in Mg. and see if that effects ph.

[defigart]

Ok, I know you have much more experience than I do with SW/Reef keeping than I do, so forgive me for sounding like a newby.

 

When ever I have a problem I like to start at the very beginning and work my way through.

 

So, are you using RO or DI water, that is close to 0ppm to begin with? If not your water could have pH stabalizers in it that would cause your water to "reject" the chemicals that you are adding to raise the pH.

 

Can you isolate/shut off the Calcuim Reactor and see if that helps your pH. I know that Carbonic Acid is produced in them, and that can't be helping to figure out the issue. If this "fixes" the issue perhaps to much CO2 is being injected into the reactor.

 

What is different about your new salf and your old. Do you know anyone else using it, and have they had any similar issues. Or have they had any issues since switching to it?

[180Bob]

Test for Mg. and see what it is. Mine was low and my ph was low also.

 

It helpped raise ph a little but not a lot. Shot for 1400-1500 in Mg. and see if that effects ph.

 

We have had similar experiences. A while ago we weren't watching the Mg level and it drifted down to near 1000ppm and my PH was running between 8.0 to 8.15. Recently I have gotten the Mg level up to ~1250 and now the PH runs between 8.15-8.4.

[Nyles]

Hes out today, but I tested his mg, it was in the 1300 range prior to these issues, I'm willing to bet it still is since that salt is known to be high in mag

 

He is going to pick up another brand salt to test this week (hopefully mix up over 7.9 ph), I think there is a good chance it may be the salt, we'll see.

[siskiou]

What's a good MG test kit brand, and where do you get it locally?

I've been wanting to test my MG (pH is not terribly low, but lower than I'd like).

[albertareef]

What's a good MG test kit brand, and where do you get it locally?

I've been wanting to test my MG (pH is not terribly low, but lower than I'd like).

 

Funny - I have had the same question here in Portland. I usually try and remember to look whenever I'm in one of the local stores but have yet to see a Mg test kit. Where are you all getting them? So far, Ph and Calcium are holding pretty well but I really would like to be able to keep an eye on this. Thanks!

[Nyles]

Salifert is by far the best IMO, all the reputable stores carry it in Portland, however none down by us siskiou, so I mail order mine usually.

[albertareef]

Salifert is by far the best IMO' date=' all the reputable stores carry it in Portland, however none down by us siskiou, so I mail order mine usually.[/quote']

 

Thanks Nyles - strange though, I know I have looked at both SWF and Souta's multiple times and never found it... then again, I often can't find things that are right in front of me!DOH!

[Nyles]

I purchsed mine from SWF last time

[chewie]

Are you using a ph monitor? Have you calibrated it lately? As for salifert PH test kits, I have never been able to get into the 8.3 range with them. I quit testing PH LONG ago.

 

Dripping kalk at night for ALL evaporation was my best solution.

[Nyles]

He is dripping kalk into TO, and I already asked him about calibration of the probe and battery quality, I assume he re-calibrated it, that was my first question to him when he said he had the problem, but looking at the corals you can tell that the ph is having an effect, I don't doubt thats its low. He has turned off the cal reactor already in attempt to raise ph, I'm going to head over there in a couple hours and check PH, hoping its slowly crept up.

[Twitterbait]

ok, let me think this through...

 

if the PH on your WC water is off then your salt mix is bad and you need to replace it.

 

if it a consisten problem in your tank then things get really fun...

 

first off, PH, mag, cal, and alk are all inseperably intertwined. each one can throw the other off. you need to look at each of these levels in your WC water too, just to make sure they are correct.

 

one interesting thing though is if your sandbed has a hicuup then it can throw everything in your tank off balance, especially Ph, alk, and cal... as these are very important to a health sandbed. so you may want to check your tank for a nitrate or phos bloom as well to see if your sand burped. if so then you will need a big change and may want to replace sand as well.

 

as it stands now i hope you shut the reactor down for the time being.

[Nyles]

I showed up right at lights on to feed and the ph was 8.18 so for now.... Issue resolved till WC time.

[impur]

Thanks for the responses while i was gone.

 

Well when i arrived home, my return pump was on, but not pumping any water. Why do these things ONLY happen when you are gone??? So i turned the pump off and back on, and what do ya know it started pumping again. SG was up to 1.030 in the display and temp was 74. I didn't even bother with pH at this point cuz i know it would be off. So i let the water start circulating and heating back up. I flipped the topoff on for a few seconds every few hours.

 

This morning the pH was 7.9 but i still have yet to finish topping off enough water to get the water level back to normal, so i'm not stressing on that yet.

 

If its not one thing its another!!

[Nyles]

Oh geez..... I swear.... If it can happen, it will.

[impur]

You're tellin me. I'm guessing this happened very soon after you came by my house. My tank has great timing

[Nyles]

I didnt touch it!

[impur]

Ok so everything is back online. Ph this morning was 7.9. End of the day yesterday it was 8.3

 

alk - 9.4

calc - 450ppm

 

I guess i'm going to have to accept this ph range. I can't really add a fuge, and i don't know that it would do any good.

 

I picked up some Reef Crystals to do my WC. That was a flop. Tested up at:

 

ph 7.9

alk 10.6

calcium 500ppm

 

I'm going to try to take it back today.

 

All my SPS are now on the decline. My 2 favs, Oregon tort and blue mille are about half gone. My acans are looking bad and most of my zoas are now closed.

 

I'm considering getting out of the hobby now...we'll see how it goes.

[180Brandy]

Don't give up hope. things will get better!