What do you want out of this club?

[spayne]

I know, it's opening a huge can of worms.

 

I would like to know exactly what everyone wants out of this club. Be reasonable, yet be honest. Personally, I was a bit surprised at the lack of bodies at the Borneman lecture so I'm not entirely sure what everyone wants. Honestly, it's not cost effective to bring in big name speakers if the attendance is going to be small. I'm telling you, it was awesome though! Eric is a great guy!

 

Now for me, education is a big reason why I'm here. I want to do workshops and learn how to do stuff. Making rocks, fragging... whatever. I also want to educate others about the hobby, which includes getting the information and tanks into schools. And for me, I do want to have speakers come and talk to us. I think having Eric here was just incredible.

 

So what do you guys want? Do you not care about speakers? Are monthly meetings and the website all you need? Are events such as the tank tours, rock building workshops and OCA overkill? What is your vision for the club, because after all this is everyone's club.

 

Also, keep in mind... we can't do everything that is requested. This is just a Q&A session, though I really do want to know what everyone wants for the club. No arguing, guys. I know we're a passionate bunch. Be constructive, not negative and accusatory.

[Michael7979]

OK my $.02....

 

I enjoy the trading and paying of livestock from other members, BUT, I don't do alot of it. But I have in the past.

 

The education is a must in my eyes as if you don't know a bunch about this hobby you will waste your money and time. Then most likely become frustrated and leave the hobby. This can be done thru many ways.... sharing ideas, reading, talks like at Advanced a couple of months ago, and bringing in nationally known speakers.

 

So I personally want to continue to go the way the club is headed. But as Stacy said with the turn out of Sundays meeting the speakers part will have to be turned down. Meaning we will have few speakers coming in and they will need to be spaced out farther and farther apart. Is this what you want? Waiting a year maybe two to get to hear the next speaker?

 

I hope this is a freak combination of things which caused the low turn out. I hope that there are more people that have a passion and desire to continue to make this club bigger and better. I really think it can be.

 

One idea is maybe we should not have monthly meetings. Every other month?

But I would like to continue on the monthly meeting schedule.

 

Like I say just my $.02

[steveweast]

The underlying demand is there....after all....it was only 18 months ago that the club had over a 100 folks turn out at my house for the Tyree presentation....and the summer before that there was also over a 100 who turned out with no speaker......and then there was the Christmas party at Ryan's where we couldn't even see the floor. Maybe it was the Tyree frags...maybe it was the free food....who knows....but, I don't think the demand has evaporated....in fact, I'd say that there are more reefers today in this area than back then. If you can't draw in February when there's no real competition like sun, vacations, holidays, etc....then, there is a problem.

 

For me....I'm not a Borneman fan....but, I will go out of my way to see a speaker that I wish to see. I drove to Seattle for the Scott Michael presentation....and I plan to go up there in May for the Delbeck presentation. But, I'm on PSAS's email list where I've seem to have been dropped from PNWMAS's list.....hmmmm, how did that happen ? I'm also sad to see the meetings get away from being at someone's house.....I have no desire to go to some rec center with no tank present. Just being honest.

[Chief]

About a year ago, when our former President decided to step down from his position, I did my official duty and became the interim President. At that time the officers, board, and members decided to continue this club instead of letting it fall by the wayside. We had a vision of how this club was going to grow. First of all, we are an Educational Club and a Charitable Organization. We want people to learn here. Whether it be our members learning something new or our members teaching a new hobbyist, we are at least supporting education. Another goal of ours was to promote and support more educators to put tanks in schools. We wanted to be able to bring in speakers from around the country.

 

I was a very disappointed in the turnout for the Borneman Lecture. We e-mailed all the Faculty Members at the U of O's Marine Biology Dept, OSU's Marine Biology Dept, Eugene School District, many Portland Schools, all of the LFS's from Eugene to Portland, Craigslist, and had information on this website.

 

About 35 people showed up. DOH!

 

So obviously we are not hitting our target. The purpose of this thread is to find out what YOU, our public, would like out of this club. We want to make this fun for everyone.

 

Please... Vote in the poll above. Post your comments in this thread. If you don't want your comments public, then feel free to PM me. I can't fix what I don't know is broken.

 

Thank you everyone,

 

Jay

[Chief]

I'm on PSAS's email list where I've seem to have been dropped from PNWMAS's list.....hmmmm' date=' how did that happen ? I'm also sad to see the meetings get away from being at someone's house.....I have no desire to go to some rec center with no tank present. Just being honest.[/quote']

 

Steve,

 

We will have to get you back on the e-vite list. Sorry about that. We were just talking the other day about getting back into peoples homes. I miss that too. Thanks for the comments.

 

Jay

[cyenna]

I suspect I know why a lot of people didn't show up for the Borneman lecture - in fact, I wish I hadn't gone. (scratch) Anyway, maybe before each event/lecture you can give detailed description about the event/lecturer and then try to get a consensus on who would actually attend and have a minimum attendance for you to invite out a lecturer - because like someone else said in this thread, I too will go out of my way to see a lecture I'm really interested in (which is why I went to this one but I really should have did a little more homework...)

[dippin61]

I think the problem with borneman, is that he is a very specialized speaker, and the seminars he gave can both be found on reefvideos.com. So it wasnt like people thought they were missing out on much. Personally i wanted to go because, i saw his seminars online, and wanted to hear them for myself. (Although at times, things were going wayyyy over my head. He's a bit technical :p ) Im way into learning everything i can in this hobby, and thought that would make a good first meeting for me. and it was great to finally put faces to people on the board.

[Michael7979]

I suspect I know why a lot of people didn't show up for the Borneman lecture - in fact' date=' I wish I hadn't gone. (scratch) Anyway, maybe before each event/lecture you can give detailed description about the event/lecturer and then try to get a consensus on who would actually attend and have a minimum attendance for you to invite out a lecturer - because like someone else said in this thread, I too will go out of my way to see a lecture I'm really interested in (which is why I went to this one but I really should have did a little more homework...)[/quote']

 

The only problem is that we/the club have to schedule a speaker around six months in advance. This is due to them filling in their years at the first of the year, this is what I have found in my deals with them and trying to find openings. Eric was one of the ones people mentioned and had an open date. We told the club thru the site that Eric Borneman was coming on 9-6-06, that's 5 months away.

 

Yes it took a little longer to finalize what he was going to speak about. We set up the oxygen talk and I had several people ask for the salt study so I asked he would do both. Which he did. I can try to due better in getting that information out but I can't recieve information until they email me back. Again this is something that is out of the clubs hands, I feel.

 

So if there is someone that you wish to hear speak PLEASE bring it up to one of the officers/BODs. We can then go from there and see if we can arrange it.

[Piero]

PNWMAS + PSMAS = NWMAS ?

 

haven't read the thread and don't have time now, but wanted to get this thought out in case anyone wants to consider.

 

I'm currently in talks with PSMAS to possibly do some site design/development for them, which included possibly setting up a forum, and naturally it occurred to me that using the same forum for the PSMAS and the PNWMAS might be advantageous for numerous reasons.

 

So then I thought the next logical step would be to ask, why not merge the two groups, since OR and WA make up the NW...and possibly a streamlined name of 'NWMAS' Northwest Marine Aquarium Society? Anyhow, wanted to throw it out there because I think the closer the two Northwest groups are, the better off everyone is...crap ended that with a preposition...:P

 

Let me know if i can help.

 

Obvious pros/cons? I'm not sure how either club is necessarily structured, but both clubs could remain largely autonomous in terms of logistics and finances, and perhaps collaborate on events and the site? just think, we could cut TWO WHOLE LETTERS from the acronym..:P

[pcsdlszr]

I have to say that we had planned on going to this lecture. However we also found out later that my sister in law had planned on a birthday party for our niece. We didn't really have a choice. I don't think it should be put that we didn't care about this. We'd even had babysitters arranged!!

[Nyles]

So whats in the works? Is the back door behind the scenes of OCA the next event? I think this subject is something we should all discuss together. I have expressed my opinion already and I still stick with what I have said face to face with others. This club can only grow with the help of its LFS sponsors, they have the grunt of the traffic as far as reef enthusiasts, not that they are the problem but that is where I think there is a loss for information sharing, the LFS is afraid they will loose a customer to another sponsor, quite far from the truth if you think about it, actually exactly opposite. NEVER, I repeat NEVER have I went to a LFS and they recommend me to this site, I have been to 20-25 from Cali to Oregon never once. Its sad, really, this site could encourage educated purchases and start a fire of purchases that could lead to successful tanks and people that are happy to tell about their LFS experience's to others that see them that wish to get in the hobby but are afraid due to lack knowledge. Its to bad that I also use my LFS at a supplier only and that useful info come only here and there when I come in, its almost as if the info is only to tease me and spike a purchase and hope that it does so that I buy again. Yes I read what I said and I will leave it at that. I would like to think our sponsors don't do that, and quite honestly our sponsors are probably the best of the bunch, but you have to gain knowledge before a purchase, that goes for anything not just fish and corals, think about your car? Your computer? the products you consume? There all out to get your cash, its business as usual, some care about you and some like to think they do. We are all here to help, not sell out your store. I support my LFS that support the hobby. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE. I have given sales to LFS adding to 10's of thousands PER CUSTOMER, yes per customer. But some still think its about something else. Maybe we should reconsider our LFS account support? They need to support our growth as much as we support theirs. Its a two way road. I think there should be expectations of the store as well.

[spayne]

I don't think it should be put that we didn't care about this. We'd even had babysitters arranged!!

I was so afraid someone would misinterpret what I was saying. I'm not pointing fingers or anything. Of course there are people that wanted to attend that couldn't. And others would prefer to come to a lecture by say Shimek rather than Borneman.

 

Steve, you are completely right. I don't know what we're missing, because the numbers simply are not what they used to be. Heck, maybe it's Jay's fault and he blows as the president! (laugh)

 

I do agree that I miss going to people's houses and seeing their tanks.

 

Keep them coming everyone! LFS owners, too! You guys are the backbone of this club as far as I'm concerned.

[Nyles]

I simply voted meeting events and workshops, speakers are hard to come by and money is a factor. Yes I love to meet them and yes its a pleasure, but by no means is it an expectation. I enjoy the idea of a workshop but have never seen one other than the frag party (SPS) that was surprisingly short on people even though it was very educational and fun. I have participated quite some time and rarely is there a workshop. I have had to learn most myself as with most of my hobbies and the rest is history. Workshops would be a plus, I think some cheat sheets and other guides to encourage people to the site would help, so if a LFS owner was laying out something with someone they could refer to the site for bulkhead size or the amount of snails they would recommend, maybe a heater size chart (tank size divide by 3) or gallon of tank chart, turnover rates... whatever, you get my point.

[steveweast]

I don't know what we're missing' date=' because the numbers simply are not what they used to be. QUOTE']

 

 

Well....my suggestion is to look at the those old meetings where there was standing room only. When Ryan and I (mostly Ryan) were planning those events back then....we thought long and hard about what the majority of people seemed to react to. We thought that the events needed to include:

 

1) a speaker presentation with lots of pretty pictures that has a broad appeal. An O2 discussion will appeal to only a few.....and getting Shimek would be going from bad to worse. Who wants to hear about worms from someone who can't even keep a tank running nor is keeping anything that the rest of us are keeping.

 

2) the meeting should have more of a party atmosphere....where the speaker is just another event....not the only event. There should be food, drink, frag trading, a tank to look at, conversation, raffles, door prizes, etc.

 

3) the entry fee should be as close to free as possible....even if fund raisers are necessary. Granted, Ryan's and my personally funding those events significantly aided in making them possible.

 

Sunday's poor turnout further solidifies what I was trying to say about the proposed frag farmer's market in Aug. Our local club and market is NOT Seattle, Boston, or LA. If it is approached the same way.....Tyree and the other vendors will be sorely disappointed. I still think he is under the MIS-impression that this is a hot bed of a coral market. That highly attended meeting that he came to had several attributes that accounted for the huge attendance....his presentation was just one of several elements.

[tidalsculpin]

Obviously, I agree with the goals of this organisation. I directly benefit from it. Education is a worthy goal and I do everything to promote ocean/ marine life learning in my classroom. Last May, I barely knew what a protein skimmer was. The website and connections I have made through the website have been very valuable to me and my classroom.

 

It was a shame I couldn't get to the Borneman lecture. I know I would have learned a lot. I still want an occasional Eugene/Creswell/Cottage Grove/Corvallis meeting. I am the first to admit it, I don't get out much. Young children rule my world these days. I can't make it to Beaverton, Salem, or Milwaukie. I get to my LFS all the time and they are helpful.

My suggestions:

+Help LFS promote the hobby with PNWMAS

+Provide a workshop on Teacher Inservice Day 2007

+Try a split regional meeting Salem-Medford Portland - Vancouver

+Develop a more extensive resource selection on the site. you know how RC has cool online calculators....

+Encourage LFS to give it out the name as a gimmick,PNWMAS engraved on a frag disc or a useful cheap tool like salt calculators or something. Nori clips with pnwmas .org on them

+Podcasts

+ For those who like speakers--Charter a trip to MACNA in 07 or 08

[mister crabs]

I had thought of coming to this lecture but seeing as I am a relative noob at reefkeeping I worried it would be over my head. Sundays are the one day a week that me and my wife have off together so something like this didnt really interest her but something like the behind the scenes at the OCA she sounds interested in. I like the idea ofthe DIY rockmaking and other clinics and the meetings (even though I havent made it to one yet). I second the opinion above that the meeting should be more centralized so that we dont isolate our southern area members. its a long ways to portland from roseburg and grants pass areas. Heck, even a long ways from eugene. why not use salem more since it seems to be kinda in the middle?

[steveweast]

In general....A middle Salem venue does not work....at least it hasn't in the past. It becomes too easy for both the Northerners and Southerners to rationalize the meeting as being too far away. Alternating between the North and South has traditionally proven to work better.

[R2R2]

One notable difference between this event and the one Steve and Ryan put together with Tyree; none of those 3 people were involved. (also, there was no free BBQ and it was not summer) I make this point because there has been a noticeable rift sent through the club since Ryan left so quickly, and we are still on the rebound. We are still reinventing ourselves after the loss of key members, and our club is still a frag trading group. Our growth hinges on our ability to be selfless in acts that benefit the club as a whole.(for example Michael doing alot of driving and wrangling and Cheif/Spayne spending hundreds of hours organizing and trying to make everybody happy) We were missing many key members on Sunday and they all knew about the event. The problem was not in publicity, or prior planning/advanced notice, or interest in the speaker or his topic. Many people simply did not show up. There were significant others, domestic associates, boyfriends and girlfriends, and a few friends and kids at the summer BBQ(which we can't expect to come to a talk by a well know saltwater guy on a rainy Sunday afternoon)

I guess what I am saying is;given the previously mentioned conditions, was the turnout that surprising? As for me, I enjoyed myself greatly and had a very nice chat with Eric. I thank the club for bringing him here to me, and I hope that, through my efforts, I can give back to the club as good as I got. Thank-you. Ryan

[Chief]

I want to make sure that everyone understands that I am not upset or disappointed that the turnout for the Borneman Lecture was bad. What I am upset about is that we spent a lot of time and used club funds to promote an event that the club was not entirely behind. Maybe we got ahead of ourselves here.

 

I would like to get back to the grass roots of what made this club a fun thing to be a part of.

 

I am not taking any offense to anything anybody is saying. We need to hear what you want.

 

Jay

[reefboy]

I would of loved to made it but just wasnt in the cards but i have to say this i really wish there was a club like this in my area gess like most things people take for granted. I tried to get a club going but nobody wanted to have a structered club ware there was responsiblity's only a handful of us were willing to do it but just wasnt enough to keep it going. So you guys and gals are very lucky to have the people you got that are willing to take the time out of there lives to keep this club ware its at because ill keep making the 5 hour drive when i can to show my support.

[reefgeek84]

What I want out of this club...is to connect with local people who share the passion that I do about this hobby. I like this board, for the simple fact, it is a community. RC has some really good info., but I compare to living in the center of LA. That is not a community, this is like living in a town of a few hundred and we all have a very common interest, keeping aquaria of one sort or another.

 

I also want to learn as well as educate people on and about this hobby.

 

I was planning on going to the borneman meeting, until I found out what it was about, salt and oxygen...to be frank...I do not care...My salt works for me and not to worried about oxygen, until the power goes out, but once I get a battery back up, no worries there (if I want to know more I will go do an internet search...I know there is more to it then that, but I am just saying...)...I was going to bring my step dad to it as well, but once I told him what was going to be discussed, he decided that was better things he could do on a Sunday. From talking to others, people were not excited about the topics that were discussed, alot of people that I talked to were all under the same impression that he would be talking about coral, or something a little more broad. Like Steve said, I would go out of my way to see a speaker that I really wanted to see. I appreciate all the hard work, for all who put this together went through, but I will not show up due to that reason.

 

Also, like steve said...this confirms the thoughts on charging for the Tyree swap and it not being free...I am not trying to drum anything up here, but attendance for all the work that has gone into this, was dismal and it was free or next to nothing for most. That says something.

 

I think it was Nyles, who said the LFS stores need to push the club more I agree...There is no way that all the fish stores we have survive on the forum member base...Travis himself has said that his payroll is more then 5k a month...I can tell you for sure that that is not coming from our members. So this shows that there is a huge market out there that is part of this hobby, but they are not on here for two reasons...They do not know about it or they do not want to take the time. I just did some searching on the internet and it confirmed my suspensions...the SEO of the site is poor...If you search all most anything relating to the club and Oregon nothing comes up. I.E. Oregon Reef Forum...nothing comes up...This is a huge disadvantage to gaining new members...This can be improved dramatically and I can assure you that you would get more people to this board. As for pushing the club more...I think maybe some money from membership needs to be put into making some nice big signs that can be hung in sponsors stores...I know Joel has a big one in his window, but no one pays attention to windows...We have been trained as consumers not to look at windows, they are usually signs that do not interest us. However, if you put a big sign behind that counter where the cash register is at, you would be able to push it better. There are alot of other things that can be done to improve our presence in the hobby, if it really wants to be done. (I am not speaking out of tongue I have done much marketing and internet marketing at many places, also have alot of education in it as well, I am not trying to wet my own whistle here, simply stating the fact, that I do this for a living).

 

This whole internet thing is a huge catch 22 for us...On the plus side, we have an internet community where we are able to connect with fellow reefers...however...we can get all the information we want from the internet. Whether people want to admit it or not, people are on here to connect with fellow reefer-heads (whether it be for trading or simple comradery), not to gain knowledge, that is secondary, cause I can find many more websites that have way more information then we do here. The same goes for having events, people are simply going to trade or to just hang out with others, it is pure wanting to be there, not because there is a speaker who can tell me something new...Anyone can find that on the internet.

 

There are 194 active members...I am willing to guess that most of the 35 in attendance came from here... lets say 75% came from the board that is 26 people...then that is roughly 13% (I am doing this from my head, so bear with me, If I am off) that is a pretty good number from active members...and honestly of the 194 active members only about 30-40 people post on here regularly (and that is on the high end)...so if we got 75% of that number to go to the meeting, that is decent...Alot of multi million dollar companies would kill to see numbers like that.

 

As Steve said as well, the past meetings that had huge attendance was due to many factors...there was not just one specific thing being highlighted. That makes a huge difference, everyone has their own desires to see different things, so there needs to be different things for them to see.

 

Piero, mentioned combining the clubs...I do not think this is a wise decision...it does not offer any benefits...No one from Seattle is going to come down here to go to a meeting (at least not very many). It will also take away from this community that we have. If we want to go to their site, then we can, if they want to come here they will. All the internet research is leading to forums and niche forums at that, this is what we have and I think it should stay that way.

 

Everyone on this boards seems to think that I am just a negative person...it is not that; my suggestions are constructive criticism...Maybe I should say more positive things about the club, but I want this club to succeed and at this stage, we need to focus on what needs to be changed. I am not going to sugar coat anything, due to feelings being hurt, no one should take anything personal on the internet. I know I do not....like the old saying goes, "Arguing on the internet is like being in the special Olympics; whether you win or lose you are still retarded!" Yes, I tend to argue, but I enjoy debating, but I in no way take anything personal...So maybe I am slightly retarded

[Piero]

got a little skimming done, got the general idea, i think.

 

Groups/clubs/societies are great, but in the 21st century most of the communication needs for a community such as this are typically provided via online resources such as this forum I think. Lots of different events, speakers, and the overhead involved seemed more justified in the past, before da internets.

 

It's actually a wonderful thing. This new medium facilitates communication, collaboration, education, trading, selling, etc....and consequently the necessity for events involving effort, time, fuel, travel, and money decreases. I don't necessarily see it as isolating, since nothing is stopping anyone from meeting up with other people to trade etc...and they do.

 

Lots of ideas may sound exciting in theory (Borneman coming to speak, for example) but really seem less than practical when you consider the alternative. When I heard Eric was coming I honestly though, why not instead have a Borneman thread on our forum, a group chat, or even a webcast. Something that does not rquire travel, hotel, fuel, etc. Effortless communication and collaboration regardless of location is one of the biggest benefits of the medium, imo.

 

I've have noticed that every once in a while this same question seems to come up, at least since 2000. Usually after an event like this one, I think.

[Ronjunior]

A lot of good comments above. I've mentioned the food thing before, potlucks go over well to keep people coming back to events...gives more of a party atmosphere and we as humans love to eat! Was there ever a poll taken on what the speaker was discussing to gauge interest beforehand? Personally, I didn't sleep much Saturday night and wasn't feeling like sitting through a 2 hour lecture on topics that didn't appeal to me. Another thing, if something big is going to happen with the club like a spendy speaker, research should be done on what events are happening...like the "Super bowl" of NASCAR, Daytona 500 on Sunday at the time of the Borneman meeting. I could be wrong on that, but it persuaded me to stay home.

[mister crabs]

I agree with the idea of leaning more towards podcasts or webcasts for speakers. People are more inclined to participate in group activities not so much in lectures. The behind the scenes at the OCA and the beach cleanup are great ideas of getting members involved. I love the ideas of clinics such as rock building and even maybe one on how to do DIY skimmers or maxi jet mods and such. I think having DIY clinics on some of these more basic topics would draw a lot of new reefers to the clubs. when they are in thier LFS and asking questions about how to setup a sump or building rock or such then the LFS could point them to the club and the meetings. maybe do this type of event after regular meetings? so that way people that are interested (noobs) could stay and learn and people who have been in this for years can bail if they want. But considering most of us are reef-nuts even the expereinced vets will hang out to lend some knowledge or just to socialize with people who share a similar passion.

I dont know what it costs to bring in a big name speaker such as borneman but it cant be cheap. I just think if you are going to spend the money, do it on interactive events (maybe with food...lol) that appeal to a broader audience. Because new hobbyists and new members are ultimately the life blood of any club whether it be on the internet or not.

Its tough to please everyone and I dont envy Chief or spayne or any of the board members trying to decide what to schedule that will make everyone happy. just giving my .02 as a noob reefer.

[oldbrownies]

Mister crabs is right, at least that is what I would like too.

More hands on things, too bad I can't do reef stuff 2 weekends in a row, I would be at that rock building meeting so fast, I've made a good amount of "cement rock" and would love to help out and learn new ways of doing it.

 

I vote for more hands on learning and activities (maybe someone can bring in a nice oregon blue tort and we can all learn how to frag it? j/k), and more tank viewing, its nice to see other people's systems and ways of taking care of them.