Oil Spill...your biggest fears!!!!

[andy]

There is essentially nothing that we as private individuals can do to fix ANY of this' date=' [/quote']

 

Of course there is: Use less oil. Walk or take a bike instead of driving. Use public transportation. Telecommute. Turn down the thermostat. Lots of things to do. In fact, of all the societal ills we face, this is one of the only ones that individuals can active have direct impact on.

 

Just like Big Brother Lumber is the real reason weed is criminalized.

 

Amen to that.

[theJenchild]

I'd like to take a moment to thank everyone for continuing to discuss this issue in a civilized and adult manner. Its really nice to have these types of conversations and not worry about the whether it is staying "family friendly." Thanks everyone....

 

 

....and resume regular programming.

[undrtkr_00]

 

Just like Big Brother Lumber is the real reason weed is criminalized.

 

Huh?? (scratch)

[CCR]

Jen did you post because I was good LOL(laugh)I hope

[jgf86123]

Huh?? (scratch)

 

I'll explain tonight Bryan, it's actually very simple once the facts are presented.

[andy]

MJ/hemp makes much better paper than wood pulp. It's cheaper/faster/easier to grow too. Imagine what lengths a lumber land baron would go to in order to product his current cash crop (trees).

[theJenchild]

Jen did you post because I was good LOL(laugh)I hope

 

I like to give credit where credit is due...... (smile)

[Ocean In a Box]

And to think that BP is saying so easily that they will pay to clean it all up and fix the problem. I dont think there is enouh money in the world to fix something this catastrophic. And if they could just pay to fix it, I would think they would be broke by morning.

[drock59]

Watch these.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6490348n&tag=api

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6490378n&tag=api

 

Of course there is: Use less oil. Walk or take a bike instead of driving. Use public transportation. Telecommute. Turn down the thermostat. Lots of things to do. In fact, of all the societal ills we face, this is one of the only ones that individuals can active have direct impact on.

 

I second the motion. (rock2)

[jackaninny]

yeah maybe if you put that much oil in my back yard it would cause a problem....duh get real dude! My opinion and don't put a yard as an example come on you can do better than that' date=' try maybe if I had acres and acres of land then do that, you want to see my patio? One quart for my car would cover it......move on.(nutty)[/quote']

 

I think you're missing my point. You said:

 

...fish can swim I don't have any fear of it, the sea is a big place and it is a very small amount if you look at it as a whole.

 

So you are saying that the spill in the Gulf won't really matter because the ocean is a big place. So given your line of thinking if we take Portland (big place relative to your house) and dump 1000 gallons of oil in your yard (small place) if really doesn't matter now does it?

 

You might also want to do a little research on what a lack of dissolved oxygen does to the wildlife. Hint - it's called a dead zone for a reason.

 

 

On a related note - this morning on NPR they had an engineering professor form Purdue on who has been analyzing the video footage of the leaks and his numbers are scary - like 10X the current estimate scary. It's just one more data point that shows the oil industry is out of control and takes far too many risks. Time for the Feds to bring some thunder down off the mountain on these turds. Fossil fuels are a dead end - we need to turn the page and get new technologies developed now - not when we are sopping up the last bit of petroleum with a paper towel.

 

Scientist: BP's Oil Spill Estimates Improbable

 

and here's a link to some of those seepage and other numbers. Please note that the natural seepage is ~10% of the total - the rest is man made:

 

Oil Polution

[jackaninny]

And to think that BP is saying so easily that they will pay to clean it all up and fix the problem. I dont think there is enouh money in the world to fix something this catastrophic. And if they could just pay to fix it' date=' I would think they would be broke by morning.[/quote']

 

We we've got congress critters (mostly Republican but to be fair some Democrats also) that are blocking legislation to up the cap from $75 million. If you never thought those pols were bought and paid for by the oil industry you should be rethinking that position.

 

Let them know we expect the oil companies to take full responsibility

[Jules]

I think you're missing my point. You said:

 

 

 

So you are saying that the spill in the Gulf won't really matter because the ocean is a big place. So given your line of thinking if we take Portland (big place relative to your house) and dump 1000 gallons of oil in your yard (small place) if really doesn't matter now does it?

 

You might also want to do a little research on what a lack of dissolved oxygen does to the wildlife. Hint - it's called a dead zone for a reason.

 

 

On a related note - this morning on NPR they had an engineering professor form Purdue on who has been analyzing the video footage of the leaks and his numbers are scary - like 10X the current estimate scary. It's just one more data point that shows the oil industry is out of control and takes far too many risks. Time for the Feds to bring some thunder down off the mountain on these turds. Fossil fuels are a dead end - we need to turn the page and get new technologies developed now - not when we are sopping up the last bit of petroleum with a paper towel.

 

Scientist: BP's Oil Spill Estimates Improbable

 

and here's a link to some of those seepage and other numbers. Please note that the natural seepage is ~10% of the total - the rest is man made:

 

Oil Polution

 

I agree to disagree you didn't get my point either, not worth discussing to me anymore.

[undrtkr_00]

MJ/hemp makes much better paper than wood pulp. It's cheaper/faster/easier to grow too. Imagine what lengths a lumber land baron would go to in order to product his current cash crop (trees).

 

Interesting. I think you mean protect, not product?

 

I think you are confused on a number of levels, but we'd have to talk more in order for me to sort out what you mean.

 

I don't personally know how much better (or worse) paper hemp makes. I'm suspicious of this claim, however, because in places where it is legal to grow/have/smoke MJ, one would think that industry would be developed to produce higher quality, cheaper paper and put the evil American Big Lumber capitalists out of business. (laugh) Or, maybe they are all too busy smoking reefer to care. (laugh)

 

By the way, while some companies do own both pulp/paper mills and lumber mills, most lumber mills are not owned by paper producing companies, so Big Paper and Big Lumber are not the same thing. And, in the last 10 years, most of the large paper and lumber companies have sold off their timberlands, or spun them off as separate companies with separate ownership, so Big Timber (who would be the owners of the cash crop you referred to) is not the same group of folks as Big Lumber or Big Paper.

 

Most of the ownership and leadership of the Big companies (Timber, Lumber, and Paper) are capitalists, above all, and would gladly switch from growing trees to growing hemp if they felt they could make more money at it. So, to suggest that Big Lumber is the PRIMARY reason that MJ is illegal is a GIANT leap, in my opinion. In fact, if the ROI looked good enough, I think you would see those guys lobbying congress to get the good sh** legalized! (next time, ask me about the time a lumber salesman from the South asked me to bring him some "good Oregon bud" cause he couldn't get any locally ).

[nwcoralfarm]

I think we over look how well this planet can take care of its self. The well will be capped or plugged and things may be a little messy for a year. Yes some fish will die and some birds will drowned but thats the way this world works. No one screams bloody murder when the a Volcano goes off and kills all the wildlife for miles around. It always comes back after some time.

 

If we would let the forest fires burn like they always use to, the world might not be heating up like they say and all the carbon in the air would be filtering stuff out like the world always has done. OK I might be going a little far there, but I think we look at things in to short of a time frame.

 

First off when you are talking about potentially wiping out certain species or killing off reefs that have taken 1000's of years to form in "a days work" then I think it is pretty hard to say that we are looking at things on too short of a time frame. Secondly you are comparing a natural disaster to a man made oil spill....what? third, I am pretty certain people do scream bloody murder when a volcano erupts. Not to mention, sitting back and saying well, it's OK, we can do whatever we want cause theoretically the world should "right it" in around 5000 years is crazy. I live here now.

[Lowman]

What scares me is the cavalier attitude BP is taking. I heard on the news today that they are going to try again to cap it in the next couple of days. If that fails, then they aren't going to be "able" to do anything again until AUGUST!!!!! This whole thing makes me sick.

[nwcoralfarm]

I think you're missing my point. You said:

 

 

 

So you are saying that the spill in the Gulf won't really matter because the ocean is a big place. So given your line of thinking if we take Portland (big place relative to your house) and dump 1000 gallons of oil in your yard (small place) if really doesn't matter now does it?

 

You might also want to do a little research on what a lack of dissolved oxygen does to the wildlife. Hint - it's called a dead zone for a reason.

 

 

On a related note - this morning on NPR they had an engineering professor form Purdue on who has been analyzing the video footage of the leaks and his numbers are scary - like 10X the current estimate scary. It's just one more data point that shows the oil industry is out of control and takes far too many risks. Time for the Feds to bring some thunder down off the mountain on these turds. Fossil fuels are a dead end - we need to turn the page and get new technologies developed now - not when we are sopping up the last bit of petroleum with a paper towel.

 

Scientist: BP's Oil Spill Estimates Improbable

 

and here's a link to some of those seepage and other numbers. Please note that the natural seepage is ~10% of the total - the rest is man made:

 

Oil Polution

 

+1, but the screwed up part is that we DONT need to "develop" new technologies. We have most the technologies we need. The problem is that when it comes to someone coming out with say a new electric only vehicle, which was done (in big numbers) about 5-6 years ago, the fat cats step in and say "we're losing too much money" and the fact that they have the power to turn it all off as far as our major production of these types of vehicles states exactly where the problem is.

 

It absolutely kills me to know that we are doing this for only a small handful to get rich.

[nwcoralfarm]

Interesting. I think you mean protect' date=' not product?

 

I think you are confused on a number of levels, but we'd have to talk more in order for me to sort out what you mean.

 

I don't personally know how much better (or worse) paper hemp makes. I'm suspicious of this claim, however, because in places where it is legal to grow/have/smoke MJ, one would think that industry would be developed to produce higher quality, cheaper paper and put the evil American Big Lumber capitalists out of business. (laugh) Or, maybe they are all too busy smoking reefer to care. (laugh)

 

By the way, while some companies do own both pulp/paper mills and lumber mills, most lumber mills are not owned by paper producing companies, so Big Paper and Big Lumber are not the same thing. And, in the last 10 years, most of the large paper and lumber companies have sold off their timberlands, or spun them off as separate companies with separate ownership, so Big Timber (who would be the owners of the cash crop you referred to) is not the same group of folks as Big Lumber or Big Paper.

 

Most of the ownership and leadership of the Big companies (Timber, Lumber, and Paper) are capitalists, above all, and would gladly switch from growing trees to growing hemp if they felt they could make more money at it. So, to suggest that Big Lumber is the PRIMARY reason that MJ is illegal is a GIANT leap, in my opinion. In fact, if the ROI looked good enough, I think you would see those guys lobbying congress to get the good sh** legalized! (next time, ask me about the time a lumber salesman from the South asked me to bring him some "good Oregon bud" cause he couldn't get any locally ).

 

A pretty common misconception is that Hemp is weed. Hemp is completely different though similar it will not get you high, it does not produce marijuana (cannabis sativa) and it is a fact that hemp is 10 times more valuable, durable, stronger as a crop then cotton (for clothing) and wood (for pulp) It is of a much higher quality and costs far less to produce and like bamboo does not require millions of gallons of pesticides.

 

Not trying to be confrontational but seriously, do your homework. And just because it wasn't in your text books at school doesn't mean it isn't in our history, or true for that matter.

[jgf86123]

Don't currently have time to get into this, sorry yet again LOL.

 

But, the primary instigator behind weed/hemp being made illegal back in the very early part of the 20th century made his fortune in the paper/lumber industry. Yes, I lumped them together, I have worked closely in the past with various paper companies, and they either own or control the lumber industry, sorry too burst that bubble. They don't control them outright, but through dummy corporations, so they don't get hit with anti-monopoly rulings.

[kilmca]

It's funny how this thread has turned!

[Fishoutofwater]

no doubt right. thought this was about your thoughts on the oil spill. call me crazy but kinda went off subject?

 

It's funny how this thread has turned!

[undrtkr_00]

Don't currently have time to get into this, sorry yet again LOL.

 

But, the primary instigator behind weed/hemp being made illegal back in the very early part of the 20th century made his fortune in the paper/lumber industry. Yes, I lumped them together, I have worked closely in the past with various paper companies, and they either own or control the lumber industry, sorry too burst that bubble. They don't control them outright, but through dummy corporations, so they don't get hit with anti-monopoly rulings.

 

I'll be interested to hear it when you get a chance.

 

(backtotopic)