JManrow Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I agree. There is already too much negativity going on, usually from forum participants that are not card carrying members. This would only cause more problems, even if it were to be a members-only feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCR Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Well I can't say that I agree with the "paying" being different. Still, we need to have severall different forums created, I voted yes. And I am a payed member. No mud slinging. No problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Should we have one? I think it might be nice to have...but I could be in the minority. Is this buyer seller feedback regarding items for sale in classified or is this regarding our sponsors. If its regarding classifieds, I think we should If its in regards to sponsors. NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly guy Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I agree it would be nice but i also agree that it could cause more trouble than it is worth. Word of mouth as well as the openness of this site offers people the ability to say something nice or not nice about a interaction with a sponsor OR a individual whenever they want. As far as the rep power thing being used as a measurement.........that is a joke IMO. How many people even know it exists?? of those who do know how many people actually use it??? Does it go down when you do a bad business transaction??? .....as well...the rep points go up in relevance to posts. How is that an effective measure of how good or bad anything or anybody is???? Its not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 There are several factors you would have to look at here' date=' a big one is how many people who answered are actually paid members, theirs is really the only vote that counts since it is their money who pays for this forum.[/quote'] Funny thing about this is that most of the "non-card carrying" people contribute more to this site then ones who have them...So for you to say that I am less important to the club because I am not a paid member is BS...I contribute more then most people on this forum and I do not carry the card. I am not saying I am better then anyone, simply that is a gross generality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 Is this buyer seller feedback regarding items for sale in classified or is this regarding our sponsors. If its regarding classifieds, I think we should If its in regards to sponsors. NO. I wanted this more geared toward the classifieds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly guy Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Funny thing about this is that most of the "non-card carrying" people contribute more to this site then ones who have them... simply that is a gross generality. You are so correct ummmmmmm..Brandon, i like talking with you but listen to yourself in that last post . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly guy Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I have a little trick i do when dealing with people i dont know, especially when it is something that is going to be mailed. Im out of your guys loop being so far away but think about this........ IF i hook up with someone via the Internet and want to purchase something they have, i will sometimes only buy from them(depending on the value of the item) if they have a ebay account in good standing. I will then insist that they set up a buy it now for me through that ebay account in good standing, i will even offer to pay or split the ebay fees. Just a little cheap insurance with their good feedback rating on the line. That was a little OT....... back to the topic Brandon, IF you are just talking about a buyer/seller feedback sticky thread in the classifieds section, i dont see why that couldnt be simply added. From the people i do know here it would be mostly positives and i suppose it would be incentive for people to do a better job. On the flipside, the "unpaid members" who pop in just to sell an item and dont plan on hanging around........it would be no incentive at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2R2 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 My take on this issue This thread is a fine example of why a "reviews" or "feedback" forum could be difficult. Here on the internet, even the most inocent comments can be mistaken for an underhanded "[language filter]-slap" and then get blown out of all reasonable proportion. Look at some of the best threads on reef central and you will almost always find a point in each where someone feels threatened, abused, or offended, causing them to lash out. If we can limit this sort of thing, it is in the best interest of our reefing community to do so. If you have "kudos" to give, then by all means give em' here openly. If you have a bone to pick, do it in person, by PM, or by some other means directly with the person you have issue with. Complaints made in a public forum are more like blackmail than feedback, and can only result in a defensive response rather than a repair. In short; let's communicate clearly and with fairness. R2R2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 ummmmmmm..Brandon, i like talking with you but listen to yourself in that last post . Please explain...I am confused,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H20cooled Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I'm sorry but there is a big difference to contributing to this club/site then to posting a LOT of this site. This club is not just about this website, but this website is about this club. The paying members are the ones that keep the club running so when you are not a member you are not helping out the site/club at all. So, it you would like to be a big contributor to this site and the club then join the club. But don't expect for your vote to count as much as someones that actually helps keep the site going. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 I'm sorry but there is a big difference to contributing to this club/site then to posting a LOT of this site. This club is not just about this website' date=' but this website is about this club. The paying members are the ones that keep the club running so when you are not a member you are not helping out the site/club at all. So, it you would like to be a big contributor to this site and the club then join the club. But don't expect for your vote to count as much as someones that actually helps keep the site going.[/quote'] thats fine...I will not contribute you any further... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nu2reef-n Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 This is to the non paying members, and it's not to be taken harshly. The cost of membership is less then a browned out frag, you can't go to a LFS and buy a bag of sand for what it costs to become a member. I know you could feed a child for a year in some third world countries for what it costs to belong to this club. But we don't live in some third world nation. I like to cut corners and save a buck where I can. But as cheap as I am, I'm a paid member. Without paid members there would be no club, no web site. So I say to you all. Pony up or shut up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 So much for try before you buy, if a person is not welcome to post a simple vote for "Reputation and seller feedback" without getting herassed and told his opinions dont count because he didn't pay, why don't you require people to pay before they post? Since in order to help people and share their experiences you feel they have to pay for the site? I find your going to have a hard time getting funding if you treat people like trash if they don't pay, it also give me incentive to not have my money invested in a place that disrespects others in the hobby, especially someone that did nothing to deserve it. Thats why I came here was so I didn't deal with these types of people. A person that looks to get knowledge in this hobby or support this hobby should not have to pay, and disrespecting them is purely imature. I guess you better post on the welcome banner if your not paid then go somewhere else since there not welcome to post without childish remarks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H20cooled Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Who said that someone isn't allowed to post? NO where in my post or anyone elses was that said. Also no one is getting harrased for posting a response. Who are we treating like trash? I posted a response (which I think I have a right to do) and it was taken wrong. So whom am I discrepecting? The point that was being made was; This is a club website, the ONLY way that it is able to stay up is through club membership. So, if no one joins the club and pays for membership how are we going to keep the site UP? Lets not forget that everyone is entitled to their opinion and that is all that I am expressing... And you don't have to pay to post, but I personly feel if you want to be a productive member of the club/site then you should be a member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I wasn't reffering to you, I agree the site needs funds to continue. I just don't agree with payed members thinking they can spout off and treat non-paying members like they don't mean anything. As for this thread, I agree that members should probably be the ones voting, I just don't agree with the way is was posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blown65 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I voted, but I guess it doesnt mean much. LOL Maybe that should be added to the list of "Benifits of Membership" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H20cooled Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 You don't have to be a member of the club to vote or contribute to posts, and your opinion does matter, but you need to understand that this is a site/club that is supported by the paying members. So I have a question. Do you think that paying member should get some special things or should it just be the same for everyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 I know I said I was done, but this can not slide...I would like to see how big this club would be with out non-paying members? Can someone in charge so me those numbers... I get that the club needs to be funded, but if you had 25 people who paid and that was it (and no one else was here cause they did not pay), you would not have much of a club... then good luck getting sponsors to join the club with that small amount of people. Whether you like it or not, non-paying members are vital to this club... I could simply pay the 30 bucks, get a family membership and never post on here and use the club for its benefits, maybe I should go that route...no need to spend any time on here, I'll just pay some money and reap the benefits of the card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 You don't have to be a member of the club to vote or contribute to posts, and your opinion does matter, but you need to understand that this is a site/club that is supported by the paying members. So I have a question. Do you think that paying member should get some special things or should it just be the same for everyone? They get discounts at stores and are the only ones that can be part of the "staff", how is that not getting anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H20cooled Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 They get discounts at stores and are the only ones that can be part of the "staff"' date=' how is that not getting anything?[/quote'] So the only benifit that paying member should get according to you is a discount and the stores and they can run for an officer position? Whats to stop you as a non-club member from getting the same discount if you know that a store offers it? If I was a store owner I think I would give the discount to anyone who asked about it, why because if it is the difference between a sale or not then who cares. Personly I think we need a LOT more incentives for members, I think that parts of the site should be locked out to members only. I know I said I was done, but this can not slide...I would like to see how big this club would be with out non-paying members? Can someone in charge so me those numbers... I get that the club needs to be funded, but if you had 25 people who paid and that was it (and no one else was here cause they did not pay), you would not have much of a club... then good luck getting sponsors to join the club with that small amount of people. Whether you like it or not, non-paying members are vital to this club... I could simply pay the 30 bucks, get a family membership and never post on here and use the club for its benefits, maybe I should go that route...no need to spend any time on here, I'll just pay some money and reap the benefits of the card. As for this, I never once said and I don't think anyone else has said that you must be a member to post. Everyone is allowed to post and contribute to discussions. This site is not about how many people we have, there are lot of other site that you can go to that have TONS of members, this site is here to support the members of PNWMAS club. This is NOT the reef tank, or Reef Central this is a club website. I think we would be fine if it was just 25 people and guess what we would still have sponsors. No don't read into this and think that I'm telling all non-members to leave because that is NOT what I'm saying. Whoever said that the members of the club just pay the money and don't spend any time on here? Do you know who all the member are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 You don't have to be a member of the club to vote or contribute to posts, and your opinion does matter, but you need to understand that this is a site/club that is supported by the paying members. So I have a question. Do you think that paying member should get some special things or should it just be the same for everyone? I think you have skipped the posts that got this going, or getting off on a tangent, no one here was arguing the the need for paid members and no one argued that it should be the same for everyone. You may want to backstep and re-read the prior posts that got this turned. I think I should change my signature to "Attention non-paying members: Pony up or shut up" I'm sure that will get lots of locals in here to help support this Members only site, if I was to take that as a true statement, but its not. Lets move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 So the only benifit that paying member should get according to you is a discount and the stores and they can run for an officer position? Whats to stop you as a non-club member from getting the same discount if you know that a store offers it? If I was a store owner I think I would give the discount to anyone who asked about it, why because if it is the difference between a sale or not then who cares. Personly I think we need a LOT more incentives for members, I think that parts of the site should be locked out to members only. As for this, I never once said and I don't think anyone else has said that you must be a member to post. Everyone is allowed to post and contribute to discussions. This site is not about how many people we have, there are lot of other site that you can go to that have TONS of members, this site is here to support the members of PNWMAS club. This is NOT the reef tank, or Reef Central this is a club website. I think we would be fine if it was just 25 people and guess what we would still have sponsors. No don't read into this and think that I'm telling all non-members to leave because that is NOT what I'm saying. Whoever said that the members of the club just pay the money and don't spend any time on here? Do you know who all the member are? No, I am not saying anyone does that...I am simply saying that non-paying members are just as important...I could be a paying member but not contirbute at all...then who is to say I am more helpful then someone who actively dicusses and helps people out, if this is the case then you might as well just have a static site that offers advertising for the LFS's and you pay a fee and get a discount, but that is not what this club is about, it is about helping others and have a community and for someone to tell others that they do not matter in that community because they have not paid a fee is BS...This is why people are here, not because they get to be a part of some elite club cause they drop a little bit of cash...People are here because they want to be connected to other people in their community...to prove a point...someone send me the paypal address to pay the fee...I will pay it, but I can promise that my vote or thoughts will not hold any more water...So please send it to me and I will have you paid today...I then would like to know where my money is going...Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nu2reef-n Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 The comment "Pony up or shut up" was meant to be a joke. I'm sorry if you were offended by it. But it comes right back to the problem at hand. You want the benefits of membership without the outlay of money. The point I was trying to make was that twenty or thirty dollars is not a lot of money in this hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H20cooled Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 No' date=' I am not saying anyone does that...I am simply saying that non-paying members are just as important...I could be a paying member but not contirbute at all...then who is to say I am more helpful then someone who actively dicusses and helps people out, if this is the case then you might as well just have a static site that offers advertising for the LFS's and you pay a fee and get a discount[/quote'] But you are helping the club more by being a member, things in life are NOT free this club, websites, meetings, etc. cost money. Where do you think the money comes from? The way you are acting is the 25+ members should have to pay for the club and everyone else is allowed to use it just the same as they are, thats just not fair at all. What incentive would anyone have to join then? ,but that is not what this club is about, it is about helping others and have a community and for someone to tell others that they do not matter in that community because they have not paid a fee is BS...This is why people are here, not because they get to be a part of some elite club cause they drop a little bit of cash... This is not some elite club and no one is forcing anyone to join, but if you are NOT a club member you have no right to ask for club/website improvements, changes and dictate how this site or club is run. If you want to change something then join the club and as a member your vote will count a lot more. People are here because they want to be connected to other people in their community...to prove a point...someone send me the paypal address to pay the fee...I will pay it, but I can promise that my vote or thoughts will not hold any more water...So please send it to me and I will have you paid today...I then would like to know where my money is going...Thanks. http://www.pnwmas.org/newsite/join.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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