Burningbaal

hmm...I guess that's a debate, I was thinking it made sense to leverage the old thread. In my 'Planning the Dream' thread, I am asking about this too. Funny enough, when I was googling about the issue, it pointed me to this thread, so we (PNWMAS) do show up in google searches The idea is to have an external overflow with a coast-to-coast weir on a eurobraced tank (probably glass). How can it work in a way that maintains ability to clean things and is strong enough on a 72" wall (planning a 180)

this is my question for my dream build I'm thinking about...so..BUMP!

Great! About how thick is the internal box? I've been thinking 1", but...? Also, I've been thinking a eurobraced tank would be great, but then I can't really get into the internal box to clean anything (though...black acrylic would decrease the need for cleaning). I was thinking of putting small pieces of glass siliconed into place at the edges to support the internal acrylic, which would just rest in place. probably just get 1" x 1/4" glass 'strips', a 6' one along the back, and a pair of them on the ends of the tank to hold the corner of the internal box shape. This way I can just reach through the holes in the back wall and push the overflow out of its spot (at least if I drain the water level in the DT low enough I'm not fighting water pressure) for an occassional deepclean/de-clog. The shortcoming is that the internal box would have no seal at all, so it would slow-drain pretty far whenever the returns are off. Then I though of putting the eurobrace over to the external box and not on the actual DT back wall, but I'm not sure there's enough strength there...🤷‍♂️

Here's my idea so far. internal weir (toothed or not, TBD) full length with (probably) three giant non-bulkhead holes to the external. the idea is to get a super long weir for thin skim, but allow for a rimmed tank and (close to) the aesthetic of an external overflow. Picture of the end shows how the internal weir is an inch short (the actual DT level) compared to the rest of the tank/overflow. I want to oversize the open pipe and the way-oversize the emergency pipes to minimize the risk of clogs, I count it as cheap insurance if a snail tries to go for a ride. siphon will drop below the water level in the fuge section to minimize noise/bubbles. Open will drop into the skimmer section, emergency will drop into the return section (emergencies are emergencies, I don't need to skim for that emergency). I'm contemplating removing all the siphon's pipework in the box...why not just pull off the bulkhead...why do we do that pipework for a normal bean animal? Visual clues: siphon pipe has the little red ring that's supposed to look like a gate valve. open pipe has the little airline to go siphon when it has to. Emergency is just giant and high enough it shouldn't get used. I'm thinking 1/4" glass outside (it's only 4" of water) and 1/4" inside. if I do a toothed internal, it'll be acrylic, which is a bit of a game to get solid against a glass tank, but I think I can do it. Those holes in the tank's back glass are drawn as 3" diameter, no bulkhead, just debur the glass. I want the biggest possible openings from internal to external without weakening that rear wall of the tank. so, pdxmonkeyboy (and all others): please beat up my idea!

Well, I live near Seattle, so that's gonna be tough...can you post/pm/email a hundred pictures and videos so I can understand it? Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

Ok, I think I'm settling in a diy version of the "ghost" overflow. I'll form it only about an inch off the back glass, just deep enough to get down around the holes (which I'll have in excess, maybe 3 @2" or something, and only deburred holes). I think there's going to be a structural post in the way of the external overflow, so while I'll have a 6' long (toothed) weir inside, the holes will be focused on the half that doesn't have a post outside, and the external box will totally be about 3' long, I haven't yet decided about the external profile. I will probably just do a little 4x4bor maybe a little bigger, with three holes in the bottom for my almost-bean animal. But I saw Sanjay (Pennsylvania)'s 500g display with little cubbies on the overflow and thought that was nifty, so we'll see. It's odd to have the holes with no bulkhead, but there's really no point, the bulkeads will be in the bottom of the external box. Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

Ok, managed to check it and find about 110 mA, killed the hydor pico 70gph "return"pump and it dropped to about 12mA, banlck on and up to 90mA. Off and back to 10mA. So I just bought the 100gph cousin (needs to fit the hole in wall, and a little faster return sounds nice). Also bought a new test set since mine are expired and a bag of salt because my (expired) test kits are showing Ca and Mg both way off the charts (like 900 and 2500) in freshly mixed from my old stuff. Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

Such a roller coaster. Current situation is watching AC current with a meter. It occasionally spikes above 100mA (0.1A), but mostly around 15mA, sick wouldn't bother me. But smart money says one of those 100mA spikes is what killed it. Could be a heater, not sure yet. Once I figure it out, I'll probably try another fish. In other news...since that damsel was an ammonia source and the only livestock I decided to leave it overnight and... Now I can't find it. So... Lots of ammonia I guess. With the rock I bought, I'm sure I'll be cycled, so I might pick up a nicer fish, maybe a clarkii or a couple cardinals. But not until I'm more confident I've fixed the electrical problem. Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

Ha! Stray voltage! I got the multimeter I'm a ground, and as soon as the red and touched the water I had 50VAC! Fifty! Poor little bigger didn't stand a chance. Trouble is I'm not sure what it's coming from, so far it looks like multiple variables. Edit: Ok. Look like my little hydor pico 70 return pump is putting out 32 v, so that's clear enough. But with it unplugged and out of the water, anything else I turn on gets me 12-20v...very confused Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

Hey discus, I don't see many up north of Seattle. I'm trying to get back in the hobby and I live up here (near Bothell). That's going to be a lot of fun, I'm starting to think about a 180 next year...so it's fun to see this giant getting going Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

Well jeeze... He's super dead already, that was fast. I added a bunch of Mg done it's not like I was going to hurt the fish, then my wife tested it and pointed out I read the chart wrong and my mg is actually super high. So crazy high mg and Ca, but alk is mid-low (9ish). No idea what is going on. Maybe I'll just burn through a few 50% water changes and see what happens Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

And now the little guy is roaming all over like it owns the place. All good so far, time will tell. However, I used the entire mL of my old salifert Mg kit and it was still pink. I'm asking my chemist wife to retest (with my kits) tonight, but if she finds a similar result I think I'll dump in 15-20 mL of my brightwell Mg additive. It says 10mL per 20gal per day max, but I'm counting on that damsel being more hardy than the instructions are assuming. Maybe it's time for new salt, maybe I'll just do a series of big changes with this old salt quickly to kinda use it up (with a cheap damsel) and also to clean out whatever built up in the junk tank all this time. Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

Update: Earlier this week I added 20 lbs of aragalive sand and this morning I did a 10g water change. Considering it's a 29 with 50lbs of rock and now about 2.5" of fine sand, I think that's shoot a 50% WC. And this evening I added a yellowtail damsel. Hardy little bugger was chilling in a shady spot 10 minutes after I netted out of acclimation, I'm about to go check again. I also bought a small live rock to help get things rolling soccer it was probably only the sand otherwise. However, I think my ancient Kent marine salt might be bad, I'm getting a decent amount of precipitation in the bucket, even at 1.025. also, according to my older test kits the alk is between 9-10 but the Ca is off the charts, like 800 or so... I will test Mg tonight and possibly dose some Mg...any other thoughts? Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

good thought on soda ash. I may make room for a little venting anyways, the clothes dryer will be in the same room as all the tanks (display is out the other wall), so humidity might get brutal [emoji4] Anyone have advice on fish capacity in a 180? I'm thinking it may be around 250g total system (wild guess). I'm thinking of this kind of a fish set: hippo sailfin humu trigger firefish school chromis school eel? angel? butterfly achilles tang yellow tang niger trigger MANDARIN DRAGONET!

I think I can put two 55g drums across the room. I figure one with saltwater and one with freshwater. I'll probably have the RODI with a float valve but have a manual valve that's normally off, when I notice the drum getting light, I'll open the ball valve and turn it off the next day. that way I minimize TDS creep (no short cycles on the RODI) and I won't flood (float valve). This also means I know when to add kalk (assuming I go that route) because I'll know when new ATO is made. Same idea with the saltwater, but I might try to fit an extra drum. It'll be constantly getting drained with the auto water changes and I don't want to get caught with no saltwater when something goes wrong, so I want to keep an extra. When one runs out, I can swap the feed for the AWC to the full one and make a fresh 55G batch of salt. If the system has around 250gal (180 display + everything else, but minus rock/sand/equip), this means I should always have more than 20% ready to change. I also think I'm going to skip the MP40s just buy the apex with a pair of WAVs. If I need more flow, I can either add more WAVs or get an MP-something. So it'll start with APEX wifi kit + 2 WAVs, ($1150 at BRS), the AutoAqua AWC/ATO, and maybe the seneye coral if it becomes a real thing to see if I can get good alk readings. I'll add the apex's DOS when I find I need to run Ca/alk/mag, and I'll probably add the AFK for feeding. I'll probably run the radeon lights through their own controller until/unless I add any vortech pumps, then I might get the WXM. Since the theory on CO2+pH is pretty solid, I wonder if I could find my own CO2 probe on a raspberry pi, and watch the pH from the apex (does it have an API I can see my values at?) then I could have my own continuous carbonate alkilinity monitoring w/o seneye

Thanks for the response. I am fairly handy, and my good friend is a manager at the local TAP plastics, so acrylic shouldn't be an issue (even though I think I want glass for the display). I may do a 5ft overflow in the glass, I did my 4ft overflow (internal) with 1/4" glass on my old 90g and it worked great. I don't want all 6 ft here because one end will be display. Also, I'm backing off the custom background idea because I realized I'll be totally stuck for powerheads. I don't want them on the two display walls, so I need flexibility for moving/adding powerheads on the two 'rear' walls. Doser sounds right. I'm probably going to land with APEX, so I may just get their doser. and if that seneye coral ever comes out (and works), I can have a good grip on my alkilinity all the time. FWIW, my water-treatment-chemist wife (B.S. in chemistry, spent about a decade working in water treatment for both waste water remediation and drinking water, then later in pool treatment) says their theory (CO2 monitor and pH monitor) is totally legit to get you carbonate hardness. the question is if carbonate alk actually is most of our total alk or if bicarbonate and/or borate alk make their number useless.

ok, a few specific questions: I've never used reactors and dosers before. I figure as the corals get going, I'd start by using kalkwasser in the ATO, but I also assume at some point I may add a reactor or doser in the sump, should be plenty of room either around the skimmer or return. but I wanted to think about that space. I lean toward dosing, but...thoughts? I may add a little venting to the outside to try to manage the pH, but am concerned about increasing heating needs and/or evaporation...any advice? I'm thinking about moving the overflow (still external) to the backside instead of the blind-end. a 72" long weir, what's not to love that also makes it easier to drop the three different pipes into the three different places, way easier plumbing. I'm thinking about using my 29g as the ATO source after the move, any reason not to? I'm thinking about doing a 3D background on the two 'back' walls. I'd try to make it thin down to nearly nothing near the display edges. I liked a video I saw with an eggcrate backer, some dry rock and pond sealant spray foam, cover it in resin and coarse sand. I'm trying to think about how to do this with a 72" weir, anyone have a good answer for this? I want the long weir to be skimming the surface, but I don't want the background 'rock' to stop below the weir...I want my cake and to eat it to... I haven't drilled the return before, just had it over the top. anyone have strong opinions here? I liked that it broke suction quickly when the pump turns off, and seems like it keeps the tank looking cleaner (most of the pipe out of the water), but I'm looking for input.

Okay, I'm re-inspired. We have been planning a remodel of the daylight basement for next year and I have gotten into homebrew, so I was going to make a little area (shared with the laundry downstairs) to do homebrew. But I've got to thinking that I think homebrew was really only a hobby that filled in my reef hobby. I couldn't really keep a tank going because we were moving a bunch (the fist move to WA is why I sold my prized 90g+55sump setup) and then massive renovations kept me too busy and the air too dusty. homebrew was good because I got to take advantage of the lulls by going outside with the cajun burner. But I want my reef back! So I'm getting my little 29g peninsula (standard aqueon with a little fuge/return on the end I made with black acrylic) and plan to use it as the start for my dream tank. This thread is going to be the place for you all to beat up my ideas as I plan the system so I (hopefully) get it right. I think I've got a spot planned in the new basement (remember...remodeling the basement next year) that would have a two-sided display (1 long and 1 short side) for 6' x 2'. I'm thinking I might do a 180 72x24x24 display, but we'll see; it might be a little taller or thinner, 24 wide is the max that fits. I would love to keep a mixed reef with tangs, firefish, cardinals, you get the idea. And: a mandarin dragonet; who doesn't love those guys, really. So my basic idea is this (details further down): 75g (48 x 18) sump with an unlikely mangrove display (through cabinet's end, same end as the DT's end-display) >=10gal fuge above the DT with its own bean animal. This will cast some shade on the DT, perhaps good for lower-light corals. This will be some rock and lots of macroalgae for pods. more details below room to add a frag/QT tank later (hopefully a 40B) floor drain [emoji4] ATO (>= 20gal source, auto-filled by RODI) and AWC (probably a 50gal drum, change about 1% of system per day) Here's a little diagram, but I don't think I'll put the bean animal there, probably on the long side, maybe 4' long. Also, I think I've given up the external overflow idea because I think it only works with a rimless tank and I don't want to spend that $$$: The modified bean animal is minor, but two small tweaks from 'normal' (1) The open pipe will be a little upsized (1.5") to be a little quieter and minimize risk of things getting stuck and the emergency will be huge (3"?) to make sure nothing gets stuck (2) the pipes will drop in different areas of the sump (see its drawing below); siphon (most flow) into skimmer section, open (most aerated) into mangrove section, emergency (the uh-oh) straight in the return section. just cause it will be huge and might get crowded with the skimmer. the 2.5 AWC should drop the return section about 4", which should be no problem at all and everything can run 100% normal (except ATO, but that's not an issue) during the AWC. the ATO will go into the mangroves to give them a little brackish variation occassionally. If I set up the frag/QT, the AWC will drain from sump to QT and the QT will overflow that into the sewer. The fuge will be barebottom and lit around 6-8K (daylight) for algae growth, and have rock and macroalgae for pod growth. I plan to have the return from sump split with a valve on the tank-bound line so I can push about 1X turnover into the fuge, which will then overflow to the DT. I may add a small powerhead on a cheap timer to pulse on occassionally (a few minutes per hour, maybe) so some pods get pushed off their home and into the overflow/DT. I think I've heard pods are more active at night, so I might make the fuge black-walled and reverse-light it. that way the pods are more likely to get swept into the DT while the fish (madarin) are hungry. Might do an airstone to feed the algae, but I'm nervous of salt creep First, I welcome all your abuse of this plan you can muster (though I prefer constructive criticism [emoji4]). oh, UOU baffle is planned to have 3" gaps for easy cleaning, I might put a sock on the mangrove's inlet to cut the bubbles, but I'm mostly hoping it won't need much with the mangroves there to break up the flow. Next, I'm still thinking through all the littler pieces, but here's where I'm headed: start with about 150lbs of dry rock (easy 'scaping) and then 2" live sand. When I do my 29g's WC, I'll just trade with the new system (which will be pretty clean water), maybe trading rocks between my 29 and the sump for a couple months. This should get some nutrients and bacteria into the new system and keep lower nutrients in my 29. A couple months later: move all my rock and stock from the 29g into the new system, might put the 29's sand into the fuge or mangrove area, might toss it out. Probably won't do much with the fuge or mangroves at first, there won't be much excess nutrient anyways until I get a lot more livestock. equipment: mostly two MP40s for DT flow, I think that'll put me around 50-60X depending on the program, theoretically a 90X max return pump is TBD, but plan to run about 5X the DT volume with the fuge getting about 1X of it's volume might use one of my koralia nanos from the 29g in the mangrove area and one in the fuge just for fun skimmer is TBD, but this should have room for a 500gallon-rated (240g with heavy stock) skimmer, using the RSK 900 reefer as an example for now Lights are LED, but TBD. Maybe go for a couple ecotech XR30Ws or something for the DT. The fuge and mangroves will be cheaper, probably just hydroponic PC or something Heaters in three places, some near the MP40s in case the return pump is off for a while. more in the sump and maybe steal one from my 29 for the fuge plumbing is just plumbing, but I'm thinking about doing a lot of flex pipe to make it easier...any reason not to? I want to put a gate valve on the branch to the DT from return so I can dial in slow flow to the fuge, gate valve on the return's main output if it isn't adjustable. and the bean animal siphons (one in DT, one in fuge) will both have gate valves. I want the gate valves for easy dialing in. I figure with a 55gal drum of saltwater and 2.5g daily changes, I'll make a new batch every other weekend and never run out. I should never have to think about the ATO since the vessel will auto-fill from the RODI. I would just go direct to sump from RODI, but this gives me two safeties: (1) it can't fail and make the system super low-salt/flooding unless two points fail, (2) if the RODI's float valve fails open, it will just drain down the sewer (I'll put the vessel in a secondary with drain) Livestock: I'll have to do this slowly (budget), but that's okay. Eventually, I want: several big boys (achilles, yellow, hippo tang, humu trigger, a couple angels) some schooling nano fish (school of firefish or cardinals or chromis) some wrasses, maybe a lawnmower blenny for good measure TBD. not sure what else...we'll see maybe I'll have to get nemo for the kids [emoji4] we'll have to see for corals. probably some plating, encrusting, and branching SPS. Probably some LPS (acan, chalice, duncan, brain, hammer, who knows). possibly a couple softies, but not too many. Mostly just if I have any in the 29g, I'll move them. Hopefully a clam, too [emoji4]

I saw one person point out that you could put your ATO trigger at the low point. I think you're right the return section in the sump would be pretty dynamic. I could put the ATO trigger at the lowest point in the surge's cycle (when the surge is about to start flowing into the DT) and that might work as long as the ATO could respond quickly (the return is about to start filling again, which will turn off the ATO, so it would probably have very short cycles). @Higher Thinking, that's an interesting alternative for the surge; using the toilet tank setup...clever and simple. I think what I might do is to build the fuge (above the DT) with a modified bean animal where the open pipe (or emergency) is oversized and with a threaded end fitting so I can screw on a downpipe. That way I can make the fuge into a small surge tank whenever I feel like it just by screwing on the downpipe. the normal 'siphon' would only siphon for a brief moment at the top of the surge, then the one with the downpipe would hold the siphon until it breaks. in a 20g fuge I could get 10g of siphon without too much trouble. The key on this is the variable water level in the return of the sump. if I'm being honest, I'm thinking I'll set it up so I can add that downpipe to the fuge, but probably won't actually use it except for the occassional dog-and-pony show when showing off the tank. then I can put it back and not worry about the ATO issues.

So my new inspiration to get a tank going again has me thinking about putting a big tank in after/as we remodel the basement next year. Much planning would need to be done, but it could be in the 150g range for the display, plus a sump with skimmer/macroalgae and possibly slow-flow 'fuge above the display to try to grow some bugs for a mandarin (everyone's dream). basic idea is this: sump (beananimal overflow,) below display with a big macroalgae chamber, possibly a spot for mangroves that I can show via a clear panel in the cabinetry slow-flow fuge above the display with a gravity flow into the display, hopefully making this idea for mandarin-food growth I need to do lots of research here, but probably a small herbie or beananimal that gravity-drains into the display so the little critters make it into the DT alive ATO, possibly AWC doing a couple percent change per day (sink is nearby, I could prep a garbage can of saltwater every couple weeks or so). maybe use some of the 'out' water for a frag/QT tank if I get that into it The other one is where it gets weird. I love the idea of a real wavemaker box. I'm talking something like 10-20% of the DT volume up high in a tank above the DT with a giant pump that can fill that whole tank in a few minute's time. Put one giant (like 3") bulkhead near the top of the wave tank with a downpipe that goes nearly to the bottom of the wave tank, probably with an airlifter to break the airlock. Maybe add an emergency overflow bulkhead, but that's it. This way, the siphon in the wave tank doesn't start until all 20-30g of the tank is full (to the bulkhead), but it will keep draining until the wave tank is basically emptying. with a big bulkhead, this should happen very fast, making what would seem to be a true wave in a tide pool. the siphon breaks, the pump fills it back up in a few minutes and the process repeats. one caveat: this is not quiet. But here's the problem. that tide cycle makes the water level really variable in the DT. this is totally the point/on purpose, but it seems like that would be havoc for the normal overflow to the DT...any thoughts?

Ok, so I had a die off as I tried to get this going. I got a little frogspawn on sale at the LFS and then everything died and I lost my inspiration. In my dissapointment, I just turned pumps/heaters off as the evaporation made them dry...shameful, I know. But I got re-inspired a bit, and I've been spending a lot more time in the room the tank is in. I drained the little water that was left (about 4gal, it was about 1.075!) and refilled it, tossed in a little salt to get it around 1.025 and turned everything back on. I'll give it a couple days and do something like an 80% water change to hopefully remove whatever nasties had accumulated. I plan to build a wooden or plastic hood for it (a good friend is store manager of a TAP plastics up here ) and mount the lights. that should make jumpers a non-issue, and make feeding/water changes easier since the lights won't be sitting on the egg crate anymore. I'm now thinking I'll go for an easier route with basically just a FOWLR. I may throw in some easy leather or mushroom corals or something, but that's not my plan anymore. with the two little kids and a house to keep on with maintenance and a full time job, etc...I just can't be as dedicated as the stony corals need. After the next big W.C., I'll probably buy something to bring in some good microbes and make sure it's cycled right. maybe a damsel or something. Longer term, I'm thinking either cardinals and firefish or damsels and wrasses. not sure yet. Tank's got lots of water movement, an ATO, tons of rock, and what hopefully will be an algae scrubber. I might add a backpack skimmer if I get enough bioload (to cut down on the frequence of the WCs). any thoughts? Also: Anyone up here (Seattle ish) that I can buy/trade a little bit of rock/rubble from to bring in some good bacteria? or a bit of sand? or an annoying damsel you want to get rid of

ok, it's been a while, the lights are on a timer, JBJ ATO running the aqualifter routinely. I just upgraded my topup water from a 1g carboy to a ~9g acrylic tank, so I don't have to fill it as often. I've been dropping in a little (really old) marine hipro I have laying around that the yellow goby seems to enjoy well enough. I haven't done a water change, nor tested chemistry in months (6? 8? not sure). but the hermits and fish seemed happy and with minimal feeding (a crumb or two 2-3 times per week) of one fish, I figured I was ok. I have had no luck getting snails to survive though... plenty of green algae (film on the glass and some GHA and more calciferous stuff on the rock), but no snail has made it past 2-3 weeks, I've tried 8 or 10 in 3 different batches. Anyways, I prepped about 9 gallons of water (Kent salt) this weekend, tested No3, PO4, Ca, and KH on both the tank water and the new water before I started the change, both had high hardness (8, 10 respectively) and Ca right about 500 in the tank, about 540 in the new water, both were non-detect for PO4 and NO3 (no surprise with the low feeding, though I wouldn't have been surprised if the snails added to the ammonia cycle). Mg wasn't tested since the Ca and KH was high. Anyways, I'm rethinking my tank. I'm thinking I'll target LPS. who knows...frogspawn, acan, sun, elegance, brain, we'll see. maybe someday I'll throw in a birdsnest to get a little sps look, but probably not and only if everything's going perfectly. so my current thoughts for fish, one of each since the tank isn't really big enough to house multiples of these which tend to be aggressive to their own. yellow watchman - already in tank (been in there for ~6 months already) firefish (normal, not purple/helfrichi) royal gramma green clown goby neon blue goby court jester goby any thoughts? I'm shooting for as much color as I can muster without overloading the tank (especially considering the LPS I want to keep). for what it's worth, I think I remember putting around 50 pounds of rock in there (remember a 29g tank), and when I did the ~9g W.C., it looked like around half the height of water, so I'm guessing it was around 60-70% of the volume. weird how much of the 29g the rock/sand takes up!

So I've heard a lot about bristles over the years but never had one...I hear about people trying to kill/trap them... Should I try? I'm planning to add stony corals, snails and a couple small fish if that makes a difference Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

I swore all this rock was super dead except one small one from the LFS... Please help Id, only a yellow goby and hermits in here now. Hard to get a good picture, hurt I'm pretty sure I saw 2 different ones a moment ago... Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

can't figure out how to edit posts still...but I meant to say the goby's been in there for a couple months. I found him in the sump area once and just before I posted this, I found him on the filter floss over the GHA fuge.