Advice needed on new setup (40BR)

[jfly]

I'm trying to decide how I want to plumb my new tank when I get it. I talked to Joel(?) over at Waves the other day and he suggested a 1.5" bulkhead with a flat screen fitting over it that he had on one of his tanks coming out to a tee and down to the sump. It actually looked pretty awesome and I'd never seen it before. I'm so used to seeing the overflow boxes and big standpipes in the tank. I also like that fly guy overflow with the slit down the PVC that I've seen a few places, but I'm not sure. I've never built a plumbed tank before. I want the tank to be very quiet.

 

I think that first I need to assess how much flow I will need in the tank. Then I can determine which type of plumbing will service that need, and then I can work on specific equipment.

 

The tank would not be an SPS dominated bare bottom megaflow, as I personally really enjoy softies and LPS a bit more, though I'm not opposed to SPS.

 

I was recommended the Snapper which is supposedly dead silent and runs 2500 GPH at 0'. That seems like a LOT to me, even if I keep it dialed down with a ball valve. I don't remember the flow drop at 3'-4', but at 2k GPH I'd be doing a 50x turnover, which seems high to me. I know that pipe size and layout and all that changes things, but what can I realistically expect here? I was originally thinking about an Eheim 1262 (900GPH). Suggestions/advice?

 

Now I can only assume that with a gigantic 1.5" bulkhead on a 40 gallon that I'd have plenty of flow with just a single overflow. With only 16" of tank height, though, wouldn't that leave my waterlevel rather low in the display?

 

If I drill in 2 returns... do they go above or below the overflow height (or does that matter at all with check valves and whatnot?) What size? Should I do 4? Is that going to make the back wall of the tank incredibly weak?

 

Thanks in advance. I've got lots more ideas to toss around, but I'll try and limit it a bit.

[badguitarist]

that 1.5 inch hole sounds good. I personally usually do at least two holes in case one gets clogged (algae, snails, etc.) as far as returns go you can always just go over the top of the tank with pvc and not have so many holes in the back of your tank. as far as water flow it depends what species of lps and softies you are keeping. but yes generally speaking they dont need so much water flow. water flow is important to more than just the corals though, the higher the water flow the more waste will be kept of the substrate and sucked out via filters and skimmers. make sure that your return doesnt pump more water than your drain can handle.

good luck

[Algae]

I had return from sump explained to me by Impur and others as being optimal at 2-3 times water capacity of tank and sump. The rationale being that if you have a large flow of water coming in and out of the sump the skimmer does not have enough time to do its job (this is assuming that you have an in-sump skimmer). This gives an option of how aggressive you want to skim.

I DO like the idea of 50x water movement in general. It is much easier to regulate and direct water through powerheads mounted on Sure Grip magnets. You are also keeping debris in suspension to eventually be taken up by the sump/skimmer. The disadvantage, of course, is that you have a more cluttered tank (like a lot of us).

The Eheim pump is legendary in reliability and is pretty energy efficient. You may even be able to go smaller?

[jfly]

That's an interesting thought... I would have assumed that the skimmer would work regardless of the flow through the sump as it would still have the same volume of water in it regardless of how fast it cycled. (IE, the skimmer isn't circulating faster, just the rest of the tank) I personally have no experience with a skimmer OR a sump, though.

 

I could do a closed loop for added tank circulation and keep the tank/sump circle on the slow side, but then I'd need more holes. I personally hate having ANY equipment in the display which is just one more reason the big overflow with a screen on it appeals to me more than the common overflow box.

 

What is the "general rule" for tank turnover? Actually, now that I consider it, on the 20H I've got about..900-1000 gph. Can that be right? Wow. Maybe 50X isnt as bad as I thought. This is why I love discussing this stuff with other reefers. My wife just says, yeah, that sounds good, how much does it cost? I tend to get tunnel vision when looking into new projects, and I've been mostly out of the hobby for a while so I'm re-learning a lot of stuff.

 

I was considering an Octopus NW-110 or 150 for the skimmer. Should I go bigger?

 

Lighting will more than likely be 2x150mh and 2x39 t5 actinics, though I've been toying with the idea of putting a single MH on a mover to have it slowly move... Suggestions for bulbs? 10k's plus actinic? 14k's?

 

Or should I go with 175's?

 

I have SO many options floating around in my head. Someday I'll get them all sorted and my tank will love me.

[pledosophy]

The spa strainers do make overflows. A 1.5 inch bulkhead is only going to be able to handle around 1300 gph of flow. The Snapper will exceed the overflow unless your closer to 8' of head. It would give you the option to run a T off the pump and use it to run other equipment s well. I do this now as a feed pump for my recirculating skimmer, in the past have used it to feed other filtration as well. Personally if it were me I'd go for the snapper and drill two holes for the overflows and just use the spa strainers.

 

On the amount of flow. I have my tank configured kind of funny. On average it runs about 60x an hour, but with the turn of a few bulkheads and a flip of a switch I can get it over a 100x. I am actually looking at the snapper as a replacement for my own closed loop to get even more flow and be able to remove the powerheads. I like as little equipment as possible too. Flow is important, the softies will love it as well. You just have to plan it so all the flow is not directed to strongly at a coral so it's blowing the flesh off.

 

If you do the returns, and are already going to use the spa strainers with an external duroso, you might as well ahve the returns come from behind the tank, and over. Your going to want the return to come back into the water, but you are also going to want to drill siphon holes in the returns so in the event of a power outage or pump failure you don't drain your tank. A siphon hole is just a 1/8" inch or so hole in the plumbing that points towards the water, but will stop a back siphon in the case of a failure. I would split the returns a few ways, use some ball heads to control each out put, then you can split them again in the tank with loc line.

 

JMO, HTH

[jfly]

So two 1.5" overflows... how would you space them? .25 and .75?

 

I assume that I'd put them as close to the top as possible, am I wrong in that?

 

I like the idea of splitting the return flow and controlling it with ball valves. Would that generate noise though? Also, would I have to construct a frame behind the tank to support the piping?

[defigart]

Ball valves are HORRIBLE at throttling flow, (controling flow rate through them). I would suggest a different kind of valve. Butterfly valves are much better throttling valves, and are opperated in a similar manner to ball valves. If you have a choice in valves I would strongly suggest using Butterflies, instead of ball valves.

[R-3]

I think ball valves work just fine. Its generally what is used in this trade. Its just for a return, how much control you need? What more does it need to do?

 

Butterfly valves are way way harder to come by and way more pricey than just a basic ball valve.

 

Do you use butterfly valves on your setups Doran? If so can I see a pic in action? They just dont seem very practical in the aquarium trade.

[jfly]

I've never even heard of one before. What's the difference?

 

What do you guys think about this for lighting?

 

http://www.hellolights.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1356

[jfly]

I think I've actually decided on a 175w iwasaki 15k. Just not sure which reflector to use. I'd love to get away with a single bulb on the tank if I could get enough spread, but its 36" long so I think maybe I'll have to bite the bullet and get two of them. What do you think?

[jfly]

Most of these reflectors out there seem to be a bit on the gigantic size, even for a tank that is 18" front to back. Any suggestions? I'd like the option to put in some t-5 actinics which would need at least 4 inches total (if I could use 2" reflectors) just for them, which only leaves me with 14" of space for a halide...unless of course I overlap. Ugh.

[jfly]

Any opinions on an ehiem 1260 vs a 1250 for a sump return and then something like a 1262 for a CL?

[tidalsculpin]

In my 40 breeder I run a rio 2800 ss for the sump. It is dialed back a fair amount. I would say the 1250 would be adequate for sump flow. Although you may want to try to match your sump flow rate to your skimmer pumps flow rate. Do you have one picked out yet?

 

For the cl I use a panworld 100x ~790gph I use it with a scwd. I have great random flow. Very quiet. Look into panworld pumps or consider the 1262. It is a great pump. I use it for my chiller in a coldwater tank. If you use a scwd you will reduce flow a quite a bit but will get excellent randomization of current.

[jfly]

Yeah, the skimmer is running a sedra 3500, so I at least have that part worked out. I also spent 90 bucks on wood tonight to make the stand. I hope its worth it. :P

 

I'm trying to work out if I want to do a horizontal ("coast to coast") overflow in the back or not. I'm worried that even if its black glass it will be an eyesore, but it would be great for surface skimming and i know how I'd plumb it. Its going to be that or straight piece in the corner for a vertical overflow (making a triangle).

 

Do you have any pictures of your build other than the movie (I watched that the other day, btw. Nice tank! )

[chewie]

I think the 1250 would be a great pump for your return. The 1262 on a CL would be pretty decent flow combined with the return. Just about perfect for a mixed reef.

[jfly]

Sweet, thanks. I think that's what I'll go with. Any idea on how I could put in an external coast to coast overflow? That would be ideal, I just cant figure a way to do it without removing and cutting or replacing the back panel. I suppose I could do a false wall to eliminate the edge of a box. I may just go with a regular vertical overflow because its so much easier. :P

[chewie]

Check out www.melevsreef.com

[chewie]

Have you checked out Flyguys & Uhurus O/F?

 

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1257783

[jfly]

Yeah, I'm just not sure I like the idea of a pipe in the tank any more than box. :(

[spectra]

Just cut the back and do an external overflow. I copied Impurs idea on my sons tank and loved it. If you can go to Joels he is doing the same thing now on his cubes he is building. Here is a quick pic of a in progress shot.

[jfly]

What did you use to cut it? I have hole saws but I dont have an oblong saws. :P I've been trying to figure out how to do that, actually, I just wasn't sure about breaking the trim and whatnot. Are you worried that the trim being gone will be problematic? Do you have any more pictures? I love this idea.

[spectra]

There are a few more just search out my user name. Impure has a real nice post on RC I think but not sure. As for the tool just used a dremel with a diamond tip and lots of water. Cut is pretty much done free hand and smooth out any rough spots. I am not sure how thick the 40B are but the 29s are thin. As for taking out the plastic not an issue tank is still running today at Nanoreefers place.

[jfly]

Well, i've read a bunch of posts by you and no pics of the cuttage. :( Any ideas? I gotta go look for Impure's now.

[jfly]

Woot, i found the one that impur did.

 

I think that maybe what I should do is get another panel cut for the back and just have it like 1/4" shorter than the rest of the tank, then I could do a coast to coast external.

[spectra]

Here is what I have of pics. Did this about a year ago so you have to go back a few pages(laugh) Silicone job sucked but held water no problem. Also acrylic worked out pretty slick also.

 

A coast to coast would be cool but would take a while to cut with the small dremel. Also if going the external rout pay a little more and get 1/4 inch glass for the overflow. I cheaped out and got 1/8th from parkrose hardware it worked but was a little thin looking.

 

Also insted of the durso I would do the dual overflow with the emergency drain. So much quieter that way.