The experienced beginner :clean up crew

[Emerald525]

As my tank is cycling and I have been scrolling through posts I wanted to discuss clean up crews. 
 

Mistakes I have made in the past:

1. Too many snails  they end up dying and starving and also polluting the tank which leads to more algae. I don’t use the one snail per gallon rule particularly in a new tank. My plan is maybe 1 to 3 snails so more like 1 per ten gallons.

2. Buying margarita snails. They prefer colder water and they always seem to die off for me.

3. Adding too early. Algae is a normal part of the cycling process as the beneficial bacteria builds up there is a lot of nitrites to feed algae.  Keeping lights off helps but over time as the algae consumes the excess nitrites they naturally die off and then there is no food left for the clean up crew.

4. Buying hermits. I don’t use hermits. The saying goes if it has claws it shouldn’t go in the tank.  I also avoid emeralds though they can be great bubble algae eaters if they get hungry they can go after your coral too.  Have you seen any posts of hermits being helpful ? Like hey guys look at my happy little hermit eating all the hair algae ? They are cool and fun and love them in school tanks but for the most part they end up killing my snails for food or their shells.

5. No turbo snails while they are cool they also tend to die unless you get the Mexican variety that does better in warmer water. They also get big and knock things over. Same reason I don’t get urchins.

6. My favorite snail is the trochus. It tends to cruise on the rocks and eat algae. They also over time Can propagate in your tank and when they fall over they can right themselves. 
 

7. For sand sifting I will usually get at least one nassarius snail and for the top of the sand bed the cerith snails. Again total number will likely be 4 snails at the most for my Nuvo 25. 
 

My experience more efficient algae removal comes from a tang. I prefer the purple tang and will get a baby one for my Nuvo 25. The tang police sometimes get upset but purple tangs unlike say Achilles or hippo tangs (which do not eat much algae by the way) tend to be grazers and don’t need as much territory to roam to be happy. They tend to grow smaller in smaller space. They also can acclimate better being the only fish. If they outgrow the tank they either go in my upgraded system or I sell it easily in a day or two to someone with a bigger tank as they are functional and beautiful. I have had purple tangs eat macroalgae, hair algae , bryopsis etc.  They have a reputation for being aggressive but I have not experienced this because I don’t add a lot of tangs to my system. For my 120 I may just add one more. 
 

Please chime in if I’m wrong or your thoughts this is just from my own personal experience and things I have read on forums so the information as always may not be based on research. 

[reef-fisher]

I have always been a big believer in hermits and snails to do the majority of the work, but I’m learning that it is not true. A tang or blenny can decimate algae in a matter of a week, especially in a smaller tank, where hermits and the like would take months, if do anything at all. I find it more likely that controlling nutrients is key, where the algae is kept at bay better than with the traditional clean up crew. 
I do, however, still like watching the little guys roam the tank and feel like they add a benefit in some way, even if on a small scale. 
I personally have not seen a huge impact from small crabs like emeralds on my corals, but I’m still new-ish and learning. I did learn the hard way that sally lightfoots, while fun to watch, are jerks and will kill fish, inverts and nip at coral. 
 

I like to keep the following in each tank, if nothing else just for fun. 

1-2 emerald crabs depending on tank size 

1- peppermint shrimp 

1-cleaner shrimp 

Multiple nassarius snails (2-4 for a 25 gal)

1-3 hermits depending on tank size (1 for yours) 

Multiple Cerith snails (maybe 6 for a 25?)

1 large turbo or something like it 

Nerite snails (2 or 3)

I would not hesitate to add more, but that’s mostly because I like watching them move around. I also like the idea of a sand sifting fish, unless you have a lot of corals in the sand bed. Then they just seem to make a mess.  
 

All in all, I feel like we have the same opinion.  I like where you’re headed and am excited to see your tank progress. 

[SuncrestReef]

1 hour ago, Emerald525 said:

  Have you seen any posts of hermits being helpful ? Like hey guys look at my happy little hermit eating all the hair algae ?

You asked about hermits, but here's here's an emerald crab grazing on some green wire algae than none of my snails would touch:

 

[Emerald525]

1 hour ago, SuncrestReef said:

You asked about hermits, but here's here's an emerald crab grazing on some green wire algae than none of my snails would touch:

 

Oh I know emeralds can be great . I have had them . I have also had them grow quite big and claw up a prized scoly. Maybe not intentional as it was probably just going for the food I fed it. I also have had them pull corals on my sandbed under rocks.  Fish too can start munching on corals too they are just easier to find and catch for me:

[Emerald525]

5 hours ago, reef-fisher said:

I have always been a big believer in hermits and snails to do the majority of the work, but I’m learning that it is not true. A tang or blenny can decimate algae in a matter of a week, especially in a smaller tank, where hermits and the like would take months, if do anything at all. I find it more likely that controlling nutrients is key, where the algae is kept at bay better than with the traditional clean up crew. 
I do, however, still like watching the little guys roam the tank and feel like they add a benefit in some way, even if on a small scale. 
I personally have not seen a huge impact from small crabs like emeralds on my corals, but I’m still new-ish and learning. I did learn the hard way that sally lightfoots, while fun to watch, are jerks and will kill fish, inverts and nip at coral. 
 

I like to keep the following in each tank, if nothing else just for fun. 

1-2 emerald crabs depending on tank size 

1- peppermint shrimp 

1-cleaner shrimp 

Multiple nassarius snails (2-4 for a 25 gal)

1-3 hermits depending on tank size (1 for yours) 

Multiple Cerith snails (maybe 6 for a 25?)

1 large turbo or something like it 

Nerite snails (2 or 3)

I would not hesitate to add more, but that’s mostly because I like watching them move around. I also like the idea of a sand sifting fish, unless you have a lot of corals in the sand bed. Then they just seem to make a mess.  
 

All in all, I feel like we have the same opinion.  I like where you’re headed and am excited to see your tank progress. 

You are exactly right with finding the source of the algae outbreak as a better option but even in the ocean you can see yellow tangs happily grazing on algae in Hawaii.  I love the sand sifting gobies like the Diamond gobies. They are so fun to watch and I may get get another one . It’s just annoying when they bury your prized corals .  I agree the inverts are fun to watch . The shrimps like the fire shrimp have so much personality and usually you can start hand feeding them. There is also so much variety in the hermits like the Halloween hermits. I may get a fighting conch just because they are fun to look at but again often knock corals over on the sand bed .

[pdxmonkeyboy]

I think the shelled guys are good to have when you are establishing your tank but after the year mark, yeah, they are just kind of nuisance really and eventually succumb to wrasses or trigger fish. 

I do keep about 10 fighting conch in the DT for sand bed duty and a couple of sand sifting starfish.  I have about 12-15 peppermint shrimp in my entire system to control any aptasia that pop up and they have worked surprisingly well at that even though I have only seen ONE, ONCE.   A handful of hermit crabs for bubble algae and I don't no... nine tangs?  And there isn't much left to clean up and I feed HEAVILY.  Probably 1.5 lbs of fresh food a month. 

 

[Emerald525]

17 minutes ago, pdxmonkeyboy said:

I think the shelled guys are good to have when you are establishing your tank but after the year mark, yeah, they are just kind of nuisance really and eventually succumb to wrasses or trigger fish. 

I do keep about 10 fighting conch in the DT for sand bed duty and a couple of sand sifting starfish.  I have about 12-15 peppermint shrimp in my entire system to control any aptasia that pop up and they have worked surprisingly well at that even though I have only seen ONE, ONCE.   A handful of hermit crabs for bubble algae and I don't no... nine tangs?  And there isn't much left to clean up and I feed HEAVILY.  Probably 1.5 lbs of fresh food a month. 

 

That’s a good idea with the peppermint shrimp .  I find when you have a massive outbreak of aiptasia they aren’t as successful so having them ahead of time. Feeding heavily probably helps keep your critters from snacking on corals as there a lot of food!

[pdxmonkeyboy]

right.. but SOMEONE is picking at my acans.  If you get a filter floss filter you will come to hate cerith snails...  🤬

[Emerald525]

12 minutes ago, pdxmonkeyboy said:

right.. but SOMEONE is picking at my acans.  If you get a filter floss filter you will come to hate cerith snails...  🤬

Why are they jamming it up?

[pdxmonkeyboy]

They get stuck between the roller guides that I have on the bottom, then the paper tears.  I think I mounted my rollers too close to the screen. I may make my mat a little smaller.  It is pretty ginormous.  Its roughly 12x 12 on the bottom with angles sides.  When full it holds probably 7 gallons of water and the weight of that water causes problems. 

[Emerald525]

8 minutes ago, pdxmonkeyboy said:

They get stuck between the roller guides that I have on the bottom, then the paper tears.  I think I mounted my rollers too close to the screen. I may make my mat a little smaller.  It is pretty ginormous.  Its roughly 12x 12 on the bottom with angles sides.  When full it holds probably 7 gallons of water and the weight of that water causes problems. 

Be curious to see what you macgyvered do you have pictures ?

[pdxmonkeyboy]

this is it without the motors and what not.  Cost me like $50 so mcgiver or not.  winning 

[Emerald525]

2 hours ago, pdxmonkeyboy said:

this is it without the motors and what not.  Cost me like $50 so mcgiver or not.  winning 

Pretty creative... 

[spectra]

5 hours ago, pdxmonkeyboy said:

They get stuck between the roller guides that I have on the bottom, then the paper tears.  I think I mounted my rollers too close to the screen. I may make my mat a little smaller.  It is pretty ginormous.  Its roughly 12x 12 on the bottom with angles sides.  When full it holds probably 7 gallons of water and the weight of that water causes problems. 

What do you have that doesnt cause problems.................

[pdxmonkeyboy]

My wife and my dirt bike.  That about rounds it out.