Paratore Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 would the BRS 1.1 Run on the apex? I'm just leaning away from them dang DOS because of how loud they are Yes, you can run anything trough your apex. You don't need to use Neptune gear. You simply just plug the doser into one of the outlets and set it on a timer through the apex. Like mine is set to (turn on) or dose every half hour for a minuet. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayPuff Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 Yes, you can run anything trough your apex. You don't need to use Neptune gear. You simply just plug the doser into one of the outlets and set it on a timer through the apex. Like mine is set to (turn on) or dose every half hour for a minuet. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk oh well then I'm liking the apex even more than 1 more point for it ty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayPuff Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 So far i think im liking the middle one and now i think there are like 4 other type of dosing pumps out there? I will using mine i think mainly for constant water change. I have not ruled out dosing with one but I do like to do it myself so I may stay that way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayPuff Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Question on the dosing pumps if I got 3 BRS 2 Part Doser – 1.1 mL per minute could I use 1 for water change 1 for alk and 1 for calcium I do it my self but I want to have the option there if I change my mind and have not ruled that out 100% Or could I got with the T11 Dosing Pump System - Bubble Magus I think has 3 motors for either dose food and alk and calc or alk and calcium and then has a extra? This is my first time diving into dosers so I'm asking away. My end goal is what I want to be able to do is dose alk calcium and still have option to have one set up for water change. With the apex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paratore Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 You need two dosing pumps for water change. One to take water out and one to put it back. The two more for alk and calcium. But yes you could do it that way. It's all about how you program it. If you go with multi head pumps, that changes it a little and I'm not to familiar with that route. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I have an Apex and I do like it. I have had it running about a year, but I have had tanks since 2001. It makes programming my tank a bit easier then it was before with all of my timers. My Apex replaced 11-12 timers for my system. I still have one timer (wp40 plugged into the white light power strip) for some randomness, but I got rid of 10 and that weird ticking sound. On a daily basis the best thing I like about the Apex is the one button feed mode. Pressing one button turns off my return pump, turns off my skimmer (because the sump water level rises), turns off the powerheads and then cascades things back on in an order I chose. It is convenient. The rest of the things it does besides making the whole target timer replacement thing better... not much really for how I run my reef. I empty my protein skimmer every morning, so I don't need a float for that. Installing my Apex with the pH probe I found out that my pH is dead on stable at 8.3. Hasn't changed by more then .1 in more then a year. So much so I thought the probe was broken, so tested that and found, my pH is good. I have a bunch of fail safes built in if the tank gets to hot, with the lights and equipment cascading off, but they have never kicked on. My heaters have their own on and off so the temperature probe is redundant for me. The conductivity probe is a good idea as it can tell you if you have a leak that your leak detector is not picking up. Basically if your salinity is dropping because an ATO is stuck on you might have a leak... or a couple of clever snails on the float valves. Having that is a good idea if you have an unrestricted ato reservoir. I use a 5g jug so that is not really an issue for me. In regards to the dosing pump, the Apex will turn the entire unit on or off. The Apex to the best of my knowledge does not have a way to monitor the amount of liquid a peristaltic pump is dispersing. So it is not any different then a wall outlet in safety for a dosing regiment. I suppose you could set it to turn off the peristaltic pumps if a leak was detected during an automated water change. I don't do water changes so that is not for me. I do run a peristaltic pump for carbon dosing through my Apex, the plug is just so close If you are using a a Calcium Reactor you can set the pH probe to monitor the pH in the system and turn off your solenoid incase of a drop (which I have) but in the last year I never have had my systems pH drop. If I do it will be a good thing I have it in place. I did not set up a second probe to monitor the reactors pH, as Travis always told me to chase ALK, not pH. A lesson I learned and am glad he shared. I did have my Apex set to text me if I lost power, however when I lost power, I also lost internet. So no text or communication from the Apex. So the only "reefing disaster" I have had was a tree falling through my neighbors house and us loosing power. Nothing the Apex could do for me there... Had it texted me I could have saved it (I have a lithium battery that will run a pump for 12 hurs), but I slept 30 feet away instead. What the Apex is for me is another step of redundancy in the protection of my system. It's not magic. It doesn't fix or protect everything. In December I got a phone call of a family emergency and was on a plane two hours later, and away from home for 3 weeks. It was reassuring to see the tank was O.K. through the software, but my back up plan was a good friend who knows as much or more about reefing then I do. If you are using 2 0z of 2 part a day you might want to look at a reactor. It does make a huge difference IME in coral growth, and it is less expensive as well. Last time I ran out of C02 I had to dose 7oz of 2 part a day. The cost of the 2 part I used in 3 days would run my reactor for a couple of months. I don't know if that helps you or not. JME 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Hey one handy tip for the power outtage. There is this great service for apex called reeftronics. http://www.reeftronics.net/ If you sign up at reeftronics, they will do allot including texting you when they cannot reach your apex. This could be due to power our network issues. You also get some killer history and backup of settings for free. Here is my current config: http://www.reeftronics.net/programns.php?member=theclark I am a fan... PS: My router, apex and cable modem or on a UPS, so this is redundant but that could be overkill for some... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayPuff Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 I have an Apex and I do like it. I have had it running about a year, but I have had tanks since 2001. It makes programming my tank a bit easier then it was before with all of my timers. My Apex replaced 11-12 timers for my system. I still have one timer (wp40 plugged into the white light power strip) for some randomness, but I got rid of 10 and that weird ticking sound. On a daily basis the best thing I like about the Apex is the one button feed mode. Pressing one button turns off my return pump, turns off my skimmer (because the sump water level rises), turns off the powerheads and then cascades things back on in an order I chose. It is convenient. The rest of the things it does besides making the whole target timer replacement thing better... not much really for how I run my reef. I empty my protein skimmer every morning, so I don't need a float for that. Installing my Apex with the pH probe I found out that my pH is dead on stable at 8.3. Hasn't changed by more then .1 in more then a year. So much so I thought the probe was broken, so tested that and found, my pH is good. I have a bunch of fail safes built in if the tank gets to hot, with the lights and equipment cascading off, but they have never kicked on. My heaters have their own on and off so the temperature probe is redundant for me. The conductivity probe is a good idea as it can tell you if you have a leak that your leak detector is not picking up. Basically if your salinity is dropping because an ATO is stuck on you might have a leak... or a couple of clever snails on the float valves. Having that is a good idea if you have an unrestricted ato reservoir. I use a 5g jug so that is not really an issue for me. In regards to the dosing pump, the Apex will turn the entire unit on or off. The Apex to the best of my knowledge does not have a way to monitor the amount of liquid a peristaltic pump is dispersing. So it is not any different then a wall outlet in safety for a dosing regiment. I suppose you could set it to turn off the peristaltic pumps if a leak was detected during an automated water change. I don't do water changes so that is not for me. I do run a peristaltic pump for carbon dosing through my Apex, the plug is just so close If you are using a a Calcium Reactor you can set the pH probe to monitor the pH in the system and turn off your solenoid incase of a drop (which I have) but in the last year I never have had my systems pH drop. If I do it will be a good thing I have it in place. I did not set up a second probe to monitor the reactors pH, as Travis always told me to chase ALK, not pH. A lesson I learned and am glad he shared. I did have my Apex set to text me if I lost power, however when I lost power, I also lost internet. So no text or communication from the Apex. So the only "reefing disaster" I have had was a tree falling through my neighbors house and us loosing power. Nothing the Apex could do for me there... Had it texted me I could have saved it (I have a lithium battery that will run a pump for 12 hurs), but I slept 30 feet away instead. What the Apex is for me is another step of redundancy in the protection of my system. It's not magic. It doesn't fix or protect everything. In December I got a phone call of a family emergency and was on a plane two hours later, and away from home for 3 weeks. It was reassuring to see the tank was O.K. through the software, but my back up plan was a good friend who knows as much or more about reefing then I do. If you are using 2 0z of 2 part a day you might want to look at a reactor. It does make a huge difference IME in coral growth, and it is less expensive as well. Last time I ran out of C02 I had to dose 7oz of 2 part a day. The cost of the 2 part I used in 3 days would run my reactor for a couple of months. I don't know if that helps you or not. JME Hey that's a great write up some things I didn't think about. Can you explain the battery back up power? If you lose power how do you have this battery to where you can wire it to get power to run the tank that just isn't clicking for me. I have been trying to think of ideas that I can do if my power goes out. I'm in a apartment btw so a compressor wont exactly work Good tips here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayPuff Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 I was just thinking if the power outage went out what good is it going to do if the apex goes out it cant send you info so back up power I forgot I have this I actually have 2 of these one I'm not using. I use this my modem is plugged into it. So like when my pge went and cut cables outside my place for 3 hours with no warning my back up kicked on to keep my net running. Might be good idea to plug the apex in here so if the power goes out it can still run. Now you wont be able to run everything if the power goes out but having the power heads power heads run is a must. Maybe even plug these into the power heads only. During outage water movement is the most important and heat.. I like the idea of having at least 1 power head and the return pump plugged into this. Granted this will only give you about 2 or 3 hours of back up power.. Now having one for your router and lap top you can run it like 5 hours so its still nice thing to have I know they make the UPS back ups to funny you never think about what if my power goes out. I think this is one over looked areas in this hobby APC BGE70 Back-UPS Connect 3-outlet Home Network Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) Look these up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Hey that's a great write up some things I didn't think about. Can you explain the battery back up power? If you lose power how do you have this battery to where you can wire it to get power to run the tank that just isn't clicking for me. I have been trying to think of ideas that I can do if my power goes out. I'm in a apartment btw so a compressor wont exactly work Good tips here. A UPS is a good way to go, especially if you have a single powerhead you can plug into it. The DC powerheads I use do not take up that much energy so they can run a long time. I do have a powerhead plugged into one of these now, and also a powerhead plugged into another outlet from the rest of the tank just incase there is another GFCI trip again. The battery I use is meant for photography. It is a lithium battery that contains two plugs. I have multiple replacement batteries for this charged as well. In a pro longed power outage to our area I can run my powerheads for quite a long time with this. Especially if I were to do an hour on and then an hour off kind of thing. For my situation since my house has solar panels even if we loose PGE completely I should still be able to recharge those back up batteries during the sun hours and keep my tank going. Here is a link to what I have as a back up. You could probably get a car battery and a converter for cheaper, but I have the batteries for my day job anyways. http://www.paulcbuff.com/vm120.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayPuff Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) A UPS is a good way to go, especially if you have a single powerhead you can plug into it. The DC powerheads I use do not take up that much energy so they can run a long time. I do have a powerhead plugged into one of these now, and also a powerhead plugged into another outlet from the rest of the tank just incase there is another GFCI trip again. The battery I use is meant for photography. It is a lithium battery that contains two plugs. I have multiple replacement batteries for this charged as well. In a pro longed power outage to our area I can run my powerheads for quite a long time with this. Especially if I were to do an hour on and then an hour off kind of thing. For my situation since my house has solar panels even if we loose PGE completely I should still be able to recharge those back up batteries during the sun hours and keep my tank going. Here is a link to what I have as a back up. You could probably get a car battery and a converter for cheaper, but I have the batteries for my day job anyways. http://www.paulcbuff.com/vm120.php Funny you posted this about UPS as I was just posting to. I think I was leaning towards getting APC BR1500G Back-UPS Pro 1500VA 10-outlet Uninterruptible Power Supply This actually can save money a year having one of these to there not cheap but can give power due to loss. or this CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD PFC Sinewave UPS 1500VA 900W PFC Compatible Mini-Tower by CyberPower Edited February 1, 2016 by StayPuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayPuff Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) You need two dosing pumps for water change. One to take water out and one to put it back. The two more for alk and calcium. But yes you could do it that way. It's all about how you program it. If you go with multi head pumps, that changes it a little and I'm not to familiar with that route. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Wont this do alk and calcium and water changes? Click on image to zoom View full size image Click on image to zoom View full size image Click on image to zoom View full size image Click on image to zoom View full size image Click on image to zoom View full size image Click on image to zoom View full size image More Views Ask a question Full Details Videos Reviews Quick OverviewBubble Magus' most advanced pump to date! The BM-T11 is a great option for calcium and alkalinity supplementation, additive dosing, or even food dosing. Purchase the BM-T12 slave unit to add additional heads to your T11 setup! More Quick OverviewBubble Magus' most advanced pump to date! The BM-T11 is a great option for calcium and alkalinity supplementation, additive dosing, or even food dosing. Purchase the BM-T12 slave unit to add additional heads to your T11 setup!MoreT11 Dosing Pump System - Bubble MagusBubble Magus' most advanced pump to date! The BM-T11 is a great option for calcium and alkalinity supplementation, additive dosing, or even food dosing. Purchase the BM-T12 slave unit to add additional heads to your T11 setup! Features: Stylish new body color and form factor Expandable up to 11 channels with the BM-T12 Slave Unit (sold separately) Tighter tolerances on seams to resist moisture exposure on internal circuitry German-made medical grade tubing for increased lifespan Advanced alarm system to alert you if there is an issue with the motor, tubing, or board Specifications: Dimensions - 10" x 5.75" x 2.75" Accuracy +/- 5% Voltage - AC100-240V, 50/60Hz, 0.36A, DC12V, 1A 3M Dosing Tube Included Flow - 1 to 1999mL Cycles - Maximum 24 per day What's in the Box?: Dosing Pump Power Supply Documentation Tubing * Note - BM-T11 and BM-T12 are not interchangeable with BM-T01 and BM-T02 models. T12 slave unit will not function standalone. T11 Dosing Pump System - Bubble Magus Or would I need to get the slave for it as well. Or if I don't dos calcium which I don't right now it stays at 550 I guess I could do alk and the water change on this one? Seems 1 black nob would pump the alk from the cylinder to the tank dosing the alk and when I do calcium the same so I think I do need a slave because ill need 2 for that one? I was looking at the BRS site for this system what I want is to dose alk and calcium and be able to do water changes with this so I don't have to. I'm not saying I'm changing what I'm doing now but I like having options and preparing ahead which is the way I'm thinking about going. Edited February 1, 2016 by StayPuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayPuff Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Ok i found out something that wasnt to nice to read about dosing pump hooked up to apex they can fail Read this first - Energy Bars and outlets EBx Energy BarsEnergy Bar Model Number of Outlets Max module Amperage (all outlets total) Max Amp/Outlet Voltage Number TRIAC outlets Number Relay Outlets EB4 4 15A 8A (#3 is 12A) 120v 0 4 EB6 6 (UK style) 10A @ 230v 8A 230v 0 6 EB8 8 15A 5A 120v 6 2 A couple of notes about the EB8 module. These come with 8 receptacles, numbered 1 - 8. Outlets 4 and 8 are activated with mechanical relays (on the EB4. EB6, and Apex Jr., all 4 outlets are mechanical relays). These have a distinct "click" whenever they switch on/off. Mechanical relays (think light switch in your house) have been around for a long time, are inexpensive and very reliable. They handle both high and low current devices well but are large and bulky compared to solid state alternatives. Also, over time they can ‘arc’ (basically a small spark) and have their contacts ‘pit’ (a black, crusty residue) as a result. And, as far as switches go, they’re relatively slow which can be a problem in some applications. Outlets 1-3 and 5-7 are TRIAC (Triode for Alternating Current) solid state outlets. They are silent, compact and capable of hundreds of thousands of on/off cycles. An example of a TRIAC switch can be found on your Christmas tree lights. They are very, very fast and can switch in fractions of a second and do that all day long without wearing out like a mechanical switch/relay would. Another advantage that TRIAC switches have over mechanical switches is that they “time” their switch to the point when the current sine wave is at or near zero (what Neptune calls ‘soft start’). This virtually eliminates the possibility of “arcing” that can happen with mechanical relays that are indiscriminate about where in the sine wave they open/close. One problem with TRIAC controlled outlets however is that they sometimes cannot detect very low power factor devices and as a result may not switch off correctly. They fail in an ‘on’ state. This only happens with very low power devices, < 4-5 watts. So, if you have any device like that, you might consider putting it on EB8 outlets 4 or 8. Dosing pumps and very small power heads are good examples of problematic devices with TRIAC outlets.The total amperage draw of all outlets for an EB8 is 15A which is the maximum load an average household circuit can handle anyway. TRIAC outlets are designed for a maximum of 5A, the relay outlets 10A. The EB4 outlets (1-3) can handle up to 8A each and outlet #4 can handle 12A. The maximum of 15A for the module still applies. The EB8/4 module has a virtual “probe” that reports total amperage load – displayed on the status screen in real time and logged in your data logs. This is the total load for the module - it can't currently tell you the load by outlet. However, by turning on the outlets one by one, you can deduce how much each device draws. You can then shuffle them around to different outlets if necessary. The probe is named “Amp_n” where “n” is your EBx AquaBus address. One problem with TRIAC controlled outlets however is that they sometimes cannot detect very low power factor devices and as a result may not switch off correctly. They fail in an ‘on’ state. This only happens with very low power devices, < 4-5 watts. So, if you have any device like that, you might consider putting it on EB8 outlets 4 or 8. Dosing pumps and very small power heads are good examples of problematic devices with TRIAC outlets. NOW that would suck Edited February 2, 2016 by StayPuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayPuff Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 i use the old drews doser. They were a super cheap buy from a friend so I got them:) when they die on me I will probably upgrade the the BRS 1.1 mL dozers. Been thinking of even using there 50mL doser for auto water changes. Having high calcium is not a bad thing in my opinion. The one to worry about is alk. If that gets to high bad things happen. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk If you follow my last couple post they you plug these into a mechanical relay outlet Now this would make the EB8 a joke for the apex.. I think this is why I have read that the dosing at times will not shut off because the way it is made its not made for on off things to much. On reef central a guy posted this.. Very disappointed with EB8 I love my Apex controller and already don't know how I lived without one for so long, but the EB8 is a joke and it seems the solutions from Neptune are pretty weak IMO. You can't plug low draw devices like dosing pumps, fans etc into the TRIAC outlets because they will not shut off. Neptune's solution: Use the relayed outlets. They are suggesting to use the outlets which were designed for items that draw the most current for items that draw the least current. Also they state the reason for the TRIAC outlets in the first place is because the relayed outlets have a limited number of operations before they fail due to the mechanical nature. Strike two for using dosing pumps on the relays since they need to switch on and off many times a day. Now on to the next issue. If you use the relay outlets for your dosing pumps you have to plug lights into TRIAC outlets. Now whenever the relay outlets switch off your lights flash, ballasts buzz etc. Neptune's response: A whole scientific explanation about sine waves and switching at certain points which the relays don't do which in turn introduces noise that the TRIAC outlets are very sensitive to. Their solution: put your lights on the relayed outlets. Come again? Which one is it? I would venture to guess that at least 90% of the people that purchase these controllers are going for automation which means they will be running lighting and dosing pumps yet somehow the EB8 was designed to not allow those 2 things to happen at once. How about 4 relay outlets and 4 TRIAC outlets on an EB8? Is there no way to shield the TRIAC outlets from the noise a little better? Maybe offer outlets in configurations of 4 keep them seperated. You could offer the EB4 and EB4HD or something. Then when you order a package you could choose from a combination of any 2 of the strips. Sure it might raise the cost of the initial package a little, but given Neptune's solutions I seem to be stuck purchasing either an EB4 or another EB8 to get the number of relayed outlets I need so everything will operate properly. So I am spending another $150 on top of the original package anyway and I can't even use all of the outlets I paid for in the first place. If providing the different type outlets in separate boxes of 4 raised the package price by $50 I would still be out less money, have no wasted outlets and I wouldn't have to figure out where I am going to put the extra box I shouldn't even need. Now on top of all of this outlet 1 on my EB8 is freaking out and turning on/off on its own randomly and providing varying amounts of current as the fans (and nightlight....a workaround for the low current draw issue) that are plugged into it speed up and slow down (and the nightlight dims) when the outlet randomly does its thing. The outlet is on manual and I have switched it on/off manually, powered down and restarted everything and it still does it. As I stated before I love all of the functions of the Apex itself and can't wait to get the additional modules for control of my Vortech and LEDs but the EB8 seems to be a big turd in the punch bowl. BTW SORRY FOLKS I told you I do my research and I nail down problems or could be problems and try to solve them or work on solutions in this hobby looking ahead can save disaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paratore Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 To be honest I only read about half of that guys post. Just another person complaining cuz they probably wrote their code wrong or something. When i was doing all of my research on the apex before I bought it I talked to a lot of people and trusted their opinion. I did this because most of the time people only post bad things about the apex online. If you ask everyone on the forum if they use there apex to dose or monitor their calcium reactor, just about all of them will say yes. And then if you ask how many have had their dosing pumps get stuck on, the number will be pretty close to zero. If you do it right and your programming is good, the apex will work just fine. It's simply a computer that does what you tell it to do. There are guys on here that trust their super high end systems to the apex and haven't been let down. The reason I say this is because this hobby is about trial and error. There are so many people that have tried the apex and never had a problem. There is a possibility that something could go wrong, but that possibility also applies to all our other equipment. It is such a small possibility also. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Wont this do alk and calcium and water changes? Depends on your system. To automate water changes you need two peristaltic pumps. One to draw the water out of the tank, and one to draw water from your salt water reservoir and into the display system. The exception to this would be if your system had it's own drain to a sewer system or something, like a floor drain plumbed through the sump. Then all you would need to do would be to pump water into the display and the extra water would drain on it's own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Ok i found out something that wasnt to nice to read about dosing pump hooked up to apex they can fail They can fail when not hooked up to the Apex too Maybe the dosing pumps I use are different but the dosage of the pump is controlled by the dosing pump, not by the Apex. The dosing pump is always on, but it is not always pumping. It monitors and times the dosage itself. The Apex has nothing to do with the amount I am dosing at all. If my dosing pump were to be stuck "on" as in powered it would not change a thing about my system. My dosing pump is always "on" or receiving power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayPuff Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 They can fail when not hooked up to the Apex too Maybe the dosing pumps I use are different but the dosage of the pump is controlled by the dosing pump, not by the Apex. The dosing pump is always on, but it is not always pumping. It monitors and times the dosage itself. The Apex has nothing to do with the amount I am dosing at all. If my dosing pump were to be stuck "on" as in powered it would not change a thing about my system. My dosing pump is always "on" or receiving power. Ya if you switch to the BRS 2 part BRS 2 Part Doser Specs Silent operation 20ft max head Extremely accurate Will not back siphon Dimensions: 4" x 3.25" x 4.5" 12 month tube life (at 4 hours of use per day) 12 month Bulk Reef Supply warranty on pump motor and head Includes 17ft of 1/4" OD tubing, mounting bracket, and directions Santoprene tube BRS 2 Part Dosers are intermittent duty pumps and not meant for continuous operation. We recommend on/off cycles under a few hours to maximize life span. You will need two pumps in order to dose both calcium and alkalinity. When used with controllers like the ReefKeeper or Apex, we recommend connecting these to a mechanical relay outlet, and not a TRIAC outlet on the controller's powerbar. I like the sound of these 2 part doser but the whole connecting it to a mechanical relay outlet I'm lost I'm no electrician and I'm lost reading all this stuff as it mentions for this unit only I think that it wont work right with the apex because it needs to be plugged in to this relay and mb8 and mb6 whatever I'm lost on all that stuff to lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 If you want to plug the doser into the Apex you can get an adapter for not very expensive to handle that issue. To simplify it, it is like plugging your doser into a surge protector, and then into the apex. It's not complicated when you see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayPuff Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 If you want to plug the doser into the Apex you can get an adapter for not very expensive to handle that issue. To simplify it, it is like plugging your doser into a surge protector, and then into the apex. It's not complicated when you see it. any chance you could provide me with a link of what adapter I would need BTW thank you all for the pro and cons here I'm still looking into things and rading reviews and pro and cons and stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayPuff Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 Here are some things to think about to I was reading some more reviews and the first few that popped up were not good reviews on this Again just tossing this out so people can see all options and yea these are good points to. Who runs 500 feet cable from there aquarium to the tank. I think in a earlier post someone said this is wireless? I just need to find it a port on my wireless router? I don't want to have to go out and buy more things for the money this system should be plug and play and be done with it. Jake would not recommend this to a friend Went on vacation and had a major fail system told me that had a friend go over but even after I explained everything to him it still didn't work out well. Tank crashed and lost it all its best to save your money on this shaky software and just have someone check on it for you. Even if you do get a alert a problem is going on chances are it wont help unless your close or give people the key to your place. Save yourself some money after having this for 2 years it has been more of a pain than anything. flash wouldn't recommend this product to a friend the directions are terrible (there are none you have to youtube everything )i have had it for 3 weeks now and I'm still not sure of everything yet. it may be a good product after all the aggravation it put me through. And bye the way you have to email for costumer service first. Talking on the phone is there last resort. So no directions and poor customer service TAL wouldn't recommend this product to a friend The system was packaged nice and the equipment appears to be durable. However, after spending 3 hours getting everything set up and drilled into my stand, my display screen randomly stops working. Spend the next 6 hours calling customer support. No one ever answers. They have about 3 different voice prompts instructing you to reach out via email instead. In between calls I do this. Receive an auto generated response but no one ever reaches out to me. On the 7th hour (of me calling them) someone finally answers. He takes over my computer screen and tries to fix it on his end for about 4 minutes. He can't fix it. His solution: "take an hour of your time and go to your local post office, pay to ship the item to California, where our technicians will look at it and assess. If it is still under warranty we will fix at no charge to you and reship." My response: "You mean on the unit thats been out of the box for less than a day? I'm supposed to go to the post office and mail it back to you? You can't just send me another $20 head unit considering I spend nearly $2,000 on equipment from you? This isn't worth my time" Response: "Yes sir, that's what I'm saying." What I'm saying to you: Don't be fooled into buying this thing. The head unit is literally a piece of junk. You can tell when you pick it up - weighs less than my TV remote. Defunk literally out of the box. The Apex Fusion software is clunky and not intuitive at all. Have not tried the mobile software but the web version is about 5 years away from being competent (similar to ecotech's if you know what I mean). I bought this thing to give me peace of mind as I left the country for the holidays. Now I'll just be leaving the life in my 180g up to chance. They couldn't just send me a new display and have me send them this one when I got back. Thanks Apex. Dirk wouldn't recommend this product to a friend Ive owned this system about a year now.setup or with general questions. , after all this time in development, still feels like a shaky house of cards. The firmware needs pretty frequent updating, and guess what? You have to have a direct wired connection to wherever you chose to install all these modules. So if your aquarium is far from you computer like me, you'll be buying a laptop! Or, you could attempt to update the firmware every time it needs it and risk "CATASTROPHIC" consequences they warn you about on your website. I travel for work frequently, which was my main reason for reaching for a certain level of automation. But with the frequent updates to try and keep this shaky software working, I'm often left away from my aquarium not able to use any of these features because I'm not home to jump through the hoops and get the firmware installed by crawling under my aquarium with a laptop. I only wish someone had told me this before I purchased this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 You will have to either use a wireless device to connect the apex to the router or run a cable. I use a wireless device that plugs into an electric socket by the tank, and then another one that plugs into a socket by my router and then into the router to connect my network. Works great and is cheap. Like $20-30 IIRC. Some people use old wireless routers and do that. You can find those at goodwill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayPuff Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 You will have to either use a wireless device to connect the apex to the router or run a cable. I use a wireless device that plugs into an electric socket by the tank, and then another one that plugs into a socket by my router and then into the router to connect my network. Works great and is cheap. Like $20-30 IIRC. Some people use old wireless routers and do that. You can find those at goodwill. well I already have a wireless router down the hall so then I wont need to run no cables down to this thing huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 You would need to plug the apex into the wireless router, it does not have built in wifi So if you have a home router you can network your apex with an additional router. So you need 2. You can get an old linksys pretty cheap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayPuff Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 You would need to plug the apex into the wireless router, it does not have built in wifi So if you have a home router you can network your apex with an additional router. So you need 2. You can get an old linksys pretty cheap wonderful the plug to the tank is still 60 feet away so ill have cables running all over I might have to think about that one bummer to bad they didn't just make it wireless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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