Sand Bed Depth

[Mitchell]

I am thinking about using a shallow sand bed (< 1") in my new tank. I've always had at least a couple inches of sand in my other tanks, but I haven't been happy with it. It always seems to collect so much detritus. I would go bare bottom, but I dislike the bare bottom look. What depth of sand bed do you have and how do you like it?

[matty]

I voted less than 1" because I think no sand looks unnatural but thick dirty sand beds look bad. Another option if you like the look of sand but want the benefits of bare bottom is to line the bottom with starboard coated in sand.

[Arminius]

My most healthy tanks have all been bare bottom - even when I use 1/2" of sand I get problems. And I fully understand the depth of sand needed for it to be beneficial, but I have always accidentally stirred it up or blown it around, or otherwise disrupted my deep sand beds, so I ditched them. I like the idea of the sand attached to starboard though, because until coralline covers the bottom, it looks rather artificial.

[Garrett]

I voted one inch i have never gone barebottom but is a plan for my tank for the future for thw simple fact of a cleaner tank from what ive read. My 150 i used to fine of sand and had to really mess with flow to not blow sand around,i ended up being unhappy with it and my tank currently i went a 1" maybe less of coral rubble for looks mainly while allowing high flow. These are just my opinions tho i personally do not like a batebottom until its a nice coraline covered bottom

[rollermonkey]

Since a pistol shrimp/shrimp goby was always part of my plan, I tried for 3" of sand. With the MP10 at 50%, my actual depths vary from 1" to 4.5". The sand also hides the "feet" I glued on my live rock for stability.

[saltygobie]

I used to run bare bottom tanks and after purple algee grows on the bottom I think it looks bad so I run 1" now

[Jeramy]

I am a big fan of the deeper sand beds and all of the extra life that comes with it. My new tank has a 4" deep sand bed with really fine sand for the lower anarobic zone to slightly larger grains for the upper aerobic zone so I dont need to worry about high flow stirring it up. I also try and keep a healthy crew of snails that like to bury themselves in the sand to help keep it churrned up =)

[Islandoftiki]

All of my tanks are tiny, so they usually get about 1" to 1 1/2" deep sand bed. I keep a lot of nassarius snails in there to keep the sand bed turned, and my pistol shrimp pretty much prevents any detritus from building up in 2/3 of the tank.

 

It seems like I've heard too many stories of deeper sand beds getting disturbed and causing all manner of death and destruction. Maybe on a really large tank that's less of an issue.

[PowderBlue]

I usually run about one inch. Much easier to keep clean if you just sift it every few days.

[Garrett]

http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/filtersfiltrationsetup/a/aadsbdiscussion.htm

It all comes down to what jeramy stated really if you are going for dsb it needs to be deep enough to build the anarobic zone FROM WHAT IVE READ im no scientist so idk the logistics but when i did a dsb in my 150 i shot for the 4-5" as recomended for dsb

Hopwfully thatll help

[Toby Flenderson]

This is just my opinion but i would rather have increased water volume than a deep sand bed. If you calculate a 5 inch sand bed for my tank at 48"x18"x5" thats 18.7 gallons of water lost. There are more than enough creatures and critters roaming your live rock to do the job of a DSB.

[Garrett]

Im in that boat as well. With my tank its shallow id loose so much sq in

[Derbird]

I started out with a two inch bed. Power heads and critters have made that anywhere from 1/2 to 3 inches deep DOH!. It needs to be at least two inches in places so my wrasses and sand star have a place to do there thing

 

I don't let it go any deeper then 3 inches just for fear of creating a anarobic zone and all the "trouble" that can come from it being disturbed. I do have a section of my sump with a five inch bed to try and get the best of both.

[wanareef]

I use the Sea Floor Special - saw it @ tPA aka/Garrett and I like it, bigger grains but not huge @ 2" deep

[Burningbaal]

voted for 2, had more like 3 in my 55 and 90, have about 1/4" in my femto for looks (and just a HOB filter for flow). I really like the sand-dwellers, so I doubt I'd ever go less than 1", especially not BB. with lots of sand-dwellers and 1-2", it should stay plenty stirred for the skimmer to get everything.

 

also, I REALLY want to do a remote DSB when I (someday) put together a big tank again. my plan:

 

get a 5-10g tank with 1-2 bulkheads and about 3/4 full of ultra-fine sand, possibly 1/2" of crushed coral on top for stability. glue (silicone/weld-on, whatever) a 3" wide shelf that goes the whole width (not length) of the tank ~1-2" above the sand level. Drain water from the tank's siphon pipe (I'll run a bean animal overflow every time) onto that shelf, the shelf breaks the flow to not disturb the sand. the bulkheads are on the opposite end from the shelf to drain the water out (should be about the same height as the shelf, maybe a hair higher. I want this to break down dissolved organics, not particulate, so the full siphon will cause enough flow to hopefully keep particulate moving. drain out of this into the skimmer/sump/fuge/whatever.

 

don't touch it. If you notice a problem (or on a schedule?), move the siphon pipe's drain to the sump directly, skipping the RDSB, taking it out of the system. squeeze a 2" or so PVC pipe down into the sand to keep it intact, scoop everything else out, refill with clean sand, remove the pipe so that core seeds the new stuff quickly. move the siphon drain back to the RDSB and you're back in business.

 

my $0.04 (at least it took longer than two cents, not sure it's worth more)

[reefnjunkie]

I use the Sea Floor Special - saw it @ tPA aka/Garrett and I like it' date=' bigger grains but not huge @ 2" deep[/quote']

 

I used the same sand-The reef calculater I used said for a 2" bed I needed 320 lbs so I thats what I went with, sadly or not, I ended up with an easy 3" bed.

 

My Blue Throat and Sargassum Triggers are always "stirring" it up in areas trying to burrow under the rock. They pile it up one day I move it back at night, there is little to no detritus on the ides of my tanks sand bed as a result.

 

My point being I have read about (and am curious of the effects of) vacuuming your sand bed as you do in freshwater (in small portions only and spread out over time)-Its a thread worth opening to see if people have done and the effects good and bad but not in this thread. I know I have always stirred up the sand when cleaning the front and side of the tank and all the SPS and LPS feedrs come out so Ihave to think there is something beneficial going on-

 

Hows that for off topic-(nono)

 

 

 

 

I voted for a 3" sand bed and love it, due to the trim I have the tank "framed" with it hides about 1.5"s-

 

I have a BB in my frag tank and dont like it, its covered in coraline and its just not "natural" looking IMO is the only reason I would not do BB

 

That Sea Floor special is perfect grain size, again IMO

[Garrett]

Www.oregonreef.com or some bs, the guy vaccumed sand weekly and replaced every month he said his tank volume was large enougj to were the aand was basically np part of the biological filtration. Even the guys coldwater is stupid nice with ornamental cowfiah ive never heard of prior

[NoobtoSalt]

Www.oregonreef.com or some bs' date=' the guy vaccumed sand weekly and replaced every month he said his tank volume was large enougj to were the aand was basically np part of the biological filtration. Even the guys coldwater is stupid nice with ornamental cowfiah ive never heard of prior[/quote']

 

Steve broke down that tank a year or so ago. It was a shame to see him shut it down. (sad)

 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[kriz2fer]

DSB are becoming less and less popular as people are finding they can contribute to long term tank crashes and high nutrient issues. If you are keeping a strictly Sps reef I wouldn't recommend a DSB.

[Garrett]

Yeah kriz2fer showed me that its incredible like you said a shame i read every little bit, and all i can say is...one day.

[reefnjunkie]

DSB are becoming less and less popular as people are finding they can contribute to long term tank crashes and high nutrient issues. If you are keeping a strictly Sps reef I wouldn't recommend a DSB.

 

Not to take this TO FAR of topic although the thread is a poll so not sure if its to far off at all.

 

I would think I fall into the SPS tank arena based on the ratio I have-Its SPS dominate thats or sure.

 

Chris what constitutes deep in your understanding? I've heard 5" an more so another opinion would be good.

 

When I referrenced vacuuming the sand, it was more like the fresh water days, I'm not removing any sand ( very little if any) but merely vaccuming all the stuff that settles and the stand stays. I'd use a gravel vacuum just as I used to during the fresh water a brackish water days, I'm not sure how its so different but there lays the question.....Is it different...

 

 

i too have read quite a few posts of how over a long time a DSB is not good. I ended up with what I presently have by miscalculations and easily can remove as much as needed. I guess its time to do some more reading on the matter, my tank is a month or two from its 1 year mark

[Mitchell]

I don't think you're off topic at all Brad. Even if you were, I wouldn't care. And I think you would fall into the SPS tank category (laugh)

 

Everyone has brought up some good points. I never even thought about the loss of water volume.

 

I was planning on using the seafloor special sand, but after some research it sounds like Tropic Of Eden Reeflakes are around the same size, but cleaner and whiter.

 

I don't know if this is true at all, but I was wondering if using the standard 2-3 inches of sand would give you the worst aspects of both a shallow sand bed and a DSB. My thought here is that with that amount of sand, you lack the depth necessary to create a useful anaerobic zone, but it is plenty deep to collect detritus. Now I know any amount of sand can and will collect detritus, but it seems like the deeper the sand, the harder it is to keep clean.

 

What I am planning on doing with my sand is: using 90 lbs of sand for my 48"x48" tank, this should give me a depth of about .85" since the sand weighs about 80 lbs/cubic foot. With that depth I should have no anaerobic bacteria and just aerobic. What normally happens when you vacuum your sand is that the sand that has aerobic bacteria mixes with the sand with the anaerobic bacteria. Some of the aerobic bacteria ends up in the anaerobic zone and since it needs oxygen and doesn’t have it, it dies. The same is true for the anaerobic bacteria, some of it ends up in the aerobic zone, cannot tolerate oxygen and dies. This is the die off associated with vacuuming/disturbing a normal sand bed. The goal of my shallow sand bed is to eliminate this die off, allowing me to vacuum my sand bed as much as it's needed to remove detritus.

[Burningbaal]

I don't know if this is true at all, but I was wondering if using the standard 2-3 inches of sand would give you the worst aspects of both a shallow sand bed and a DSB. My thought here is that with that amount of sand, you lack the depth necessary to create a useful anaerobic zone, but it is plenty deep to collect detritus. Now I know any amount of sand can and will collect detritus, but it seems like the deeper the sand, the harder it is to keep clean.

possible, you'd have to keep it clean, rather than doing it myself, I always vote for diamond gobys and the like to stir it up. if you're doing 48" square and can keep the floorspace open (minimal rocks on the bottom), I've always liked the idea of a horshoe crab. if you have enough flow to keep the sand off the corals, a pair or two of engineer gobies are a personal favorite, they toss sand all the freaking time! Make your creatures do the cleaning for you!

 

What I am planning on doing with my sand is: using 90 lbs of sand for my 48"x48" tank' date=' this should give me a depth of about .85" since the sand weighs about 80 lbs/cubic foot. With that depth I should have no anaerobic bacteria and just aerobic. What normally happens when you vacuum your sand is that the sand that has aerobic bacteria mixes with the sand with the anaerobic bacteria. Some of the aerobic bacteria ends up in the anaerobic zone and since it needs oxygen and doesn’t have it, it dies. The same is true for the anaerobic bacteria, some of it ends up in the aerobic zone, cannot tolerate oxygen and dies. This is the die off associated with vacuuming/disturbing a normal sand bed. The goal of my shallow sand bed is to eliminate this die off, allowing me to vacuum my sand bed as much as it's needed to remove detritus.[/quote']

 

mostly true about the an/aerobic points, but remember that many of the anaerobic bugs actually do fine in the aerobic zone (officially called facultative aerobes, facultative anaerobes or i-forget-for-the-ones-that-just-don't-care-about-oxygen-at-all), they just usually get out-competed by the aerobic ones.

I'd go less than 2" in the tank and a RDSB that's easy to swap out (every couple years?)...can you tell I love the idea of a RDSB? probably cause I studied microbiology and the bugs fascinate me =D

[kriz2fer]

The problem of a DSB is once the anaerobic bacteria are released they instantly die off and pollute the tank with toxins. Release of the anaerobic happens when stirred up, or they reach an age or degree of becoming stagnated (the old tank syndrome). It’s not a nutrient release that creates the instant tank death although it can contribute to the ill effects of old tank syndrome as can any stagnated bacteria havens like the old wet/dry’s.

 

When your “in tank” DSB is stagnated you essentially have to replace (or somehow clean) it, or, suffer through the ongoing consequences.

 

Alternates to using a DSB:

1) Remote DSB so it can be replaced or cleaned without releasing toxins to the tank

 

2) Provide more, and/or more dense live rock to harbor the anaerobic bacteria.

 

3) Carbon dose, or now the use of Bio pellets to supplement the aerobic bacteria to increase population sizes to be able to consume the nitrates along with the supplemental carbon source (to me this is like bacteria on steroids)

 

4) Nitrate reactors

 

This is from DR.

[Hatcher2014]

Ok I believe I voted 2" but can't remember lol but anyhow it ranges from 1"-4" due to my mp60 and my stingray putting it were he thinks it should go. But as for the brown algae don't really have a big problem with it I have a couple hundred snails and hermit crabs and a huge sand sifting starfish so with all of them put together my sand is turned constantly. And as for the debris floating in my tank when it's disturbed I don't really have that problem anymore. The first couple months I had my tank I had it horrible couldn't really figure out what it was but it was from my stingray constantly burrying himself in the sand and coming out and shaking it off on top of him always sucking up the sand and flushing it out the holes on top of his head looking for inverts. It was a thorn in my side for a couple months but I'm glad cause now I can run my hand through the sand and nothing it all settles immediately but that's just me.