reefgeek84 Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 I got my seahorse tank set up and I went to see Joel to get a couple of TR seahorses and here they are... I apologize for some of the photos, the tank is old and has many scratches so it does not photo very well at all...and this tank was set up for function not being pretty, so it is a little crude... Hanging out together... Cruising the tank buddies...(clap) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted December 20, 2006 Author Share Posted December 20, 2006 Some single shots of them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronjunior Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Looks like someone's going to need one of Lowman's Copopod cultures soon Nice, someday I wouldn't mind having a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 That is awesome thanks for sharing. I want a seahorse tank badly. Can you give me some info on your equip and setup of this tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted December 20, 2006 Author Share Posted December 20, 2006 Looks like someone's going to need one of Lowman's Copopod cultures soon Nice' date=' someday I wouldn't mind having a few.[/quote'] They are eating cyclops... very well...so for now...no cultures... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted December 20, 2006 Author Share Posted December 20, 2006 That is awesome thanks for sharing. I want a seahorse tank badly. Can you give me some info on your equip and setup of this tank? it is a 10gal eclipse nano tank, I removed the filter pad and bio wheel, in place of the filter pad, I have added small LR pieces and some seachem seagel (carbon and phoso remover)...I am getting the fission skimmer, and going to try and make that work... Since I only have two right now, the bioload will be minimal so it should not be to hard to take care of. I will do weekly water changes... I also just broke up a couple peices of coral colony I had and used putty to stick it on the the LR, so they have hitching posts...I will also be adding some cheato to it (when I get off my lazy butt and pick some up). The tank itself is not very deep, so it makes it taller, which I think is better for them...but someday I may move them into a JBJ nano-cube, for better filtration, dependent on how the fission skimmer works. Let me know if you have anyother questions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 The tank itself is not very deep, so it makes it taller, which I think is better for them...but someday I may move them into a JBJ nano-cube, for better filtration, dependent on how the fission skimmer works. Let me know if you have anyother questions... Ahh i was wondering about the height, i've always read full size seahorses need REALLY tall tanks for swimming room. I have been contimplating using my 29gal for seahorses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted December 21, 2006 Author Share Posted December 21, 2006 Ahh i was wondering about the height' date=' i've always read full size seahorses need REALLY tall tanks for swimming room. I have been contimplating using my 29gal for seahorses.[/quote'] Tall tanks are not absolutely needed for just housing them...however they almost always needing them for doing the "Love Shimmy"...part of the courtship is moving up and down in the water column, so this is when the taller tank is really needed. A 29 gal you could get away with 6 in there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundy24 Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 What type of seahorses are they and how much were they? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 Reefgeek, I would try to get them onto frozen mysis ASAP. You can shave it into smaller pieces if necessary for size purposes. Will make your life way easier in the long run, The nano tanks are nice but won't make a good permanet home without mods. Seahorses need lower temps, 74F or lower for good long term health reasons. Impur, 29g tanks are great for seahorses. I wouldn't go with more then 4 if they are the only things in the tank. Remember these fish can range from 5 to 10" and are a high bioload fish. Taller tanks are better for te courtship dance but also seem to help with Gas bubble disease with seahorses. Evidence is all ancedotal on that though, no offical research. If you want more info on seahorses try seahorse.org Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 P.S. Reefgeek, the horses look good. I admired them at Waves as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted December 23, 2006 Author Share Posted December 23, 2006 Reefgeek, I would try to get them onto frozen mysis ASAP. You can shave it into smaller pieces if necessary for size purposes. Will make your life way easier in the long run, The nano tanks are nice but won't make a good permanet home without mods. Seahorses need lower temps, 74F or lower for good long term health reasons. Impur, 29g tanks are great for seahorses. I wouldn't go with more then 4 if they are the only things in the tank. Remember these fish can range from 5 to 10" and are a high bioload fish. Taller tanks are better for te courtship dance but also seem to help with Gas bubble disease with seahorses. Evidence is all ancedotal on that though, no offical research. If you want more info on seahorses try seahorse.org Kevin They are already on frozen...the nano will be perfect, explain why it wouldn't be, temps can be kept low in a nano, the size has nothing to do with temp...Every book I have read says that 12 gal is fine, including Scott W. Micheal which is one of the best resources possible. I have a skimmer and will be doing weekly water changes, not much more is needed for stability of water...Temp is low, they are the only ones in there, so I do not have other fish or corals to worry about. not all seahorses reach 10" and those are rare in general, except for maybe Kudas... Like I said, my tank is taller as opposed to deeper... Thank you for the, link...I have been doing research on seahorses for over 3 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted December 23, 2006 Author Share Posted December 23, 2006 P.S. Reefgeek' date=' the horses look good. I admired them at Waves as well.[/quote'] Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 Reefgeek, I know I am new to the forum, and to the area so I don't want you to misread me. My intentions are to be helpful. I'm not tyring to attack you at all. I'm really a friendly guy. For some reason I often come across wrong on forums. If we were to sit down together and share a few brews you would not have this perception of me. I've been working with seahorses for over six years. Have bred a few species. Am a mod on a seahorse forum. I don't know everything, the first to admit that, (especially with corals, I'm a total SPS/LPS newb but totally fascinated for now. Love that i can come here and get so much good info) but my experience in this hobby is alomst exclusivley with seahorses and there care. My views admittedly are quite conservative. Here is my take. Scott Micheal is great! Full of usefull information on numerous topics, but not so well versed on the finer points of every topic. He has his specialties, or chooses ot to focus so much on seahorses in his books, since they are a small portion of the hobby. Some people specialize in seahorses. They would be a better reference IMO. People like Marc Lamont, Dr. Martin Belli, Pete Giownja, Todd Gardener, Jeff Mitchell, Alyssa Abbot, David Warland even Amanda Vincent would be a better source IMO. Since these people work exclusively with seahorses they have a broader knowledge and more in depth research then someone who is writing a book on all aspects of the aquarium hobby. I would never ask Marc Lamont info on how to keep a SPS coral, he doesn't know jack, much in the same way I would respect his research on seahorses more then the writings of Scott Micheal. JMO. IMO from what I have read of Micheal, he is off on temperature requirement, nutrition, and tank mate compatibility. JMO. The horses you have will grow much larger. I am not the best at seahorse identification especially with juvies, which is what you have, but my best guess is that you currently have reidi or kuda. The coronet is not fully developed and I always seem to have trouble between reidi and kuda juvies. The kuda seem to have a coronet that is sloped backward a bit more when full grown. Most of the seahorses currently on the market being sold as TR are maricultured seahorses raised in net pens in Asia. They are concieved in holding tanks, then moved to ocean pens for raising, then back to tanks to be trained on fozen, then shipped out. The current species being produced in these pens are kuda, reidi, and kelloggi, although many of the seahorses being sold as TR Kelloggi are actually kuda IME. If you've been reading for three years you may have come across the difference between a CB seahorse and a maricultured seahorse. A CB seahorse would be sold as such due to it's advantages of never being exposed to parasites. Many people treat maricultured seahorses with a FW dip, a treatment of praziro, and a course of fenbedazole to comepensate for the parasite introduction, which is a great thing to due but will not eliminate the parasites that grow in the intestianal walls. I'm sure I'm not telling reefgeek anything he doesn't know but thought I would include it so it might be able to help someone who is not so well read. The net pens do make for efficent fry raising but were originally designed by Project Seahorse only to help aleviate the use of WC seahorses in the TCM. IMHO I think that the sale of these horses initially to the hobbyist maket was an after thought. All of this aside many people have great experiences with TR seahorses, and I'm sure you will too. I initially only dealt with WC's so I am of the opinion that TR seahorses can be great pets and live a wonderful life in captivity. My problem with the 12g nanocubes besides there tendancy to run warm (which can be compensated for) is that they don't actually hold 12g's of water. Closer to 8 or 9. Add rock and sand and there's not much water volume left. Also IME using several different size system seahorses do take advantage of the added room. For some reason this is so accepted with tangs, but still so foriegn to seahorse husbandry. While the seahorses are small I think the smaller tanks with temperature modifications will be great grow out tanks, but as they double and then triple in size a 12g nanocube can be problamatic. I have never tried to run the setup myself but have read several postings fom experienced keepers about troubles they have with the setup. So my advice on the nanocubes is based soley on acedotal evidence. Like most things it all depends on your level of dedication, and experience, as well as the ability to handle issues that arise. I'm not saying it's impossible to do, but much more challenging then running a 29g tall IMO. I don't know of anyone off hand that has tried the 12g nanocube with the fission skimmer. I do have a friend who uses an aquapod 12g with a chiller to grow out her erectus fry to 6 months. Personally I have found that seahorses utalize every inch of room of much larger tanks. On the nutrition aspect. Eating frozen is great. One of the benefits of buying TR horses. The difference between mysis and cyclops is great. Part of it has to do with the seahorses digestion system. Cyclops are rather small. It is easier for a seahorse with the way there digestion system works to eat larger items. Analisis of seahorse poop has shown that brine shrimp are very hard for a seahorse to digest and many times full size undigested brine can be food in the fecal matter. Cyclops is smaller, harder to digest. the nutritional profile between cyclops and mysis also varies. Most succsessful breeders I know begin to introduce frozen mysis as soon as three weeks after birth. Being TR your seahorses are probably used to mysis by now. Most likely Hikari or P&E. Mysis is better for them in the long run and much easier for you as a keeper IME. If you've been researching seahorses for three years are you a member of seahorse.org? If so what is your SN. Mine is Kevin. My offer stands to buy ya a beer. I'm fairly new up here. Haven't made many friends, looks like we have a common intrest. I'lll buy the beer, you can school me on corals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted December 24, 2006 Author Share Posted December 24, 2006 Reefgeek, I know I am new to the forum, and to the area so I don't want you to misread me. My intentions are to be helpful. I'm not tyring to attack you at all. I'm really a friendly guy. For some reason I often come across wrong on forums. If we were to sit down together and share a few brews you would not have this perception of me. I've been working with seahorses for over six years. Have bred a few species. Am a mod on a seahorse forum. I don't know everything, the first to admit that, (especially with corals, I'm a total SPS/LPS newb but totally fascinated for now. Love that i can come here and get so much good info) but my experience in this hobby is alomst exclusivley with seahorses and there care. My views admittedly are quite conservative. Here is my take. Scott Micheal is great! Full of usefull information on numerous topics, but not so well versed on the finer points of every topic. He has his specialties, or chooses ot to focus so much on seahorses in his books, since they are a small portion of the hobby. Some people specialize in seahorses. They would be a better reference IMO. People like Marc Lamont, Dr. Martin Belli, Pete Giownja, Todd Gardener, Jeff Mitchell, Alyssa Abbot, David Warland even Amanda Vincent would be a better source IMO. Since these people work exclusively with seahorses they have a broader knowledge and more in depth research then someone who is writing a book on all aspects of the aquarium hobby. I would never ask Marc Lamont info on how to keep a SPS coral, he doesn't know jack, much in the same way I would respect his research on seahorses more then the writings of Scott Micheal. JMO. IMO from what I have read of Micheal, he is off on temperature requirement, nutrition, and tank mate compatibility. JMO. The horses you have will grow much larger. I am not the best at seahorse identification especially with juvies, which is what you have, but my best guess is that you currently have reidi or kuda. The coronet is not fully developed and I always seem to have trouble between reidi and kuda juvies. The kuda seem to have a coronet that is sloped backward a bit more when full grown. Most of the seahorses currently on the market being sold as TR are maricultured seahorses raised in net pens in Asia. They are concieved in holding tanks, then moved to ocean pens for raising, then back to tanks to be trained on fozen, then shipped out. The current species being produced in these pens are kuda, reidi, and kelloggi, although many of the seahorses being sold as TR Kelloggi are actually kuda IME. If you've been reading for three years you may have come across the difference between a CB seahorse and a maricultured seahorse. A CB seahorse would be sold as such due to it's advantages of never being exposed to parasites. Many people treat maricultured seahorses with a FW dip, a treatment of praziro, and a course of fenbedazole to comepensate for the parasite introduction, which is a great thing to due but will not eliminate the parasites that grow in the intestianal walls. I'm sure I'm not telling reefgeek anything he doesn't know but thought I would include it so it might be able to help someone who is not so well read. The net pens do make for efficent fry raising but were originally designed by Project Seahorse only to help aleviate the use of WC seahorses in the TCM. IMHO I think that the sale of these horses initially to the hobbyist maket was an after thought. All of this aside many people have great experiences with TR seahorses, and I'm sure you will too. I initially only dealt with WC's so I am of the opinion that TR seahorses can be great pets and live a wonderful life in captivity. My problem with the 12g nanocubes besides there tendancy to run warm (which can be compensated for) is that they don't actually hold 12g's of water. Closer to 8 or 9. Add rock and sand and there's not much water volume left. Also IME using several different size system seahorses do take advantage of the added room. For some reason this is so accepted with tangs, but still so foriegn to seahorse husbandry. While the seahorses are small I think the smaller tanks with temperature modifications will be great grow out tanks, but as they double and then triple in size a 12g nanocube can be problamatic. I have never tried to run the setup myself but have read several postings fom experienced keepers about troubles they have with the setup. So my advice on the nanocubes is based soley on acedotal evidence. Like most things it all depends on your level of dedication, and experience, as well as the ability to handle issues that arise. I'm not saying it's impossible to do, but much more challenging then running a 29g tall IMO. I don't know of anyone off hand that has tried the 12g nanocube with the fission skimmer. I do have a friend who uses an aquapod 12g with a chiller to grow out her erectus fry to 6 months. Personally I have found that seahorses utalize every inch of room of much larger tanks. On the nutrition aspect. Eating frozen is great. One of the benefits of buying TR horses. The difference between mysis and cyclops is great. Part of it has to do with the seahorses digestion system. Cyclops are rather small. It is easier for a seahorse with the way there digestion system works to eat larger items. Analisis of seahorse poop has shown that brine shrimp are very hard for a seahorse to digest and many times full size undigested brine can be food in the fecal matter. Cyclops is smaller, harder to digest. the nutritional profile between cyclops and mysis also varies. Most succsessful breeders I know begin to introduce frozen mysis as soon as three weeks after birth. Being TR your seahorses are probably used to mysis by now. Most likely Hikari or P&E. Mysis is better for them in the long run and much easier for you as a keeper IME. If you've been researching seahorses for three years are you a member of seahorse.org? If so what is your SN. Mine is Kevin. My offer stands to buy ya a beer. I'm fairly new up here. Haven't made many friends, looks like we have a common intrest. I'lll buy the beer, you can school me on corals. First...I do not take you the wrong way at all....Trust me...I know where you are coming from...if you look through most of my posts...I tend to rub lots of people the wrong way and for lack of a better term I am very "vocal" on this forum. You are correct, about Scoot Micheal, he may not be the authority on them, but he has kept them with success, in smaller tanks... I have read through some of the other people's stuff you have mentioned...also where I derive some of my information from. I am not a member of Seahorse, i have done alot of reading on there though, I lurk and do not post. I feed mysis and they love it...but I also feed cyclops, because they are still small and hold in the water colum better, plus I bought a package of them...so I will use that until it it gone and then I will put them on mysis all the time and see how they do with that. Yes, I know the difference between CB and TR and WC...I would never go WC, and would prefer CB, but since Joel had these for a while and they were TR I figured I would give them a try...they were eating frozen and that was a big plus for me and the price was great... I appercaite all your helpfull info. and it is nice having someone on here that is so well informed about seahorses...if these start to get big (time will tell), I may upgrade to a slightly bigger tank...but I only have two, so the bioload is minimal and they do not have to share alot of room with any other seahorses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 General rule for height is 3 times the full grown height of the animal minimum, but can vary slightly with species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted December 24, 2006 Author Share Posted December 24, 2006 General rule for height is 3 times the full grown height of the animal minimum' date=' but can vary slightly with species.[/quote'] Right now they about 3" and the tank is like 15" tall, so I am good for now...and we will see how they grow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted December 24, 2006 Author Share Posted December 24, 2006 pledosophy, Do you know a good source for Dwarf seahorses? I used to know a site, but can not remember it and it would be nice, if I ever decide to go that route in the future.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 First...I do not take you the wrong way at all....Trust me...I know where you are coming from...if you look through most of my posts...I tend to rub lots of people the wrong way and for lack of a better term I am very "vocal" on this forum. I'm glad we're on the same page. Cool. Glad I didn't offend you. WC's aren't that bad except they take seahorses from the wild. Other then that, very similiar to TR. I'm lazy so think I'll stick with CB for now. On seahorse.or read the posts, several of the articles are out of date, partly my fault since the two I'm writing on (tankmates, and Seahorse Species Mixing) are still not completed. I need to get moving, but have been pretty busy lately, and lazy. For your horses I bet they hit 6" easy, if they're good eaters 8" will not be hard to hit. For dwarfs my favorite site is seahorsesource.com, but Florida collector has WC's for cheaper. Let me know if yo need any info on keeping dwarfs. I know a bit, but know people who know much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Great info here, thanks guys!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JManrow Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 "The Complete Guide to Dwarf Seahorses in the Aquarium" by Alisa Wagner Abbott. An excellent book on keeping Hippocampus zosterae. Also some info on a few other species. http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guide-Dwarf-Seahorses-Aquarium/dp/0793805341 Another good one is "Seahorses: Everything About History, Care, Nutrition, Handling, and Behavior"(Barron's Complete Pet Owner's Manuals) by Frank Indiviglio. http://www.amazon.com/Seahorses-Everything-Nutrition-Handling-Behavior/dp/0764118374/ref=pd_sim_b_1/103-6469267-5498226 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted December 26, 2006 Author Share Posted December 26, 2006 I have the latter one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVES Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Kevin, You want to do a seahorse seminar at Waves? Ill give you some free water LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 not to plug sites but here is some more info: http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/podcast-episodes/404-intro-seahorses-podcast-episode-36-a.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Kevin' date=' You want to do a seahorse seminar at Waves? Ill give you some free water LOL [/quote'] (laugh) (laugh) Joel, your nuts. See you tomorrow to get more water, and an SPS frag, just like every Wednesday. Abbott's book is cool, but has some outdated info IMHO, I have never read Indiviglio's book, I'll check it out next time I'm at Powell's. As far as books, I just get Cousteau's book, Ocean, World's Last Wilderness Revealed Cool book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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