coralreefer Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 OK, guys and gals...I've got a persistent hair algae problem that just shouldn't exist... 1) 3 month old RO-DI filters on zero TDS water...never had anything other than this for 3+ years... 2) gettanked salt with spot on parameters Ca 480 alk 9 sp gr 1.026 pH 8.1 TEMP 78-80 BULBS changed every 6 months mh 20k 250w 6 hours daily pc actinic 8 hours daily mag 1350 drip kalk 24/7 3) sump filters changed out every 3 days 4) nitrates zero on pinpoint monitor been that way for 3 months 5) dosing vodka/dextrose/vinegar/bacteria for ~5 months 6) phosphates zero on hanna meter 7) running GFO/ carbon in 2 little fishes reactor with media changed every 3-4 weeks 8) Aquaripure denitrator 9) flow is 2 korallia 4s and 2 korallia 3s in 135 gallon 10) a powerhead in sump to keep detritus stirred up as well as one in overflow 11) new MSX200 skimmer--4 months old 12) one hippo tang, a maroon clown, a Klein's butterfly fish, a neon dottyback and 4 green chromis--feeding pinch of flakes daily with quarter sized piece of Rods 3x weekly 13) 15% water change weekly like clockwork 14) do a lights out 3 consecutive days per month... 15) cleanup crew--snails and crabs I am at a loss for why hair algae won't fade back...I am well versed at reasons and treatment...I even tried ALGAEFIX but started losing snails and stopped... These live rocks have been in tank for average 5 years...I am sure, due to past that there are trapped phosphates leaching but one would think at some point that would exhaust out... What am I missing here? DrMerle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finch6013 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 (scratch)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Short answer without going check, yup, check-I can't see a thing wrong with any of those params/equipment at all- Like how much hair algae-got any pics? I have about 4 Turbos plus the rest of the CUC in my 75- those guys munch algae some tangs are veracious on algae Ever thought about possibly adding a sea hare- Travis at upscales "leased" me one last year-LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finch6013 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 could it be from any of the bacteria that you dose? although that probably wouldn't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitricker Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 No clue... I have a yellow tang that picks my rocks clean, might be worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Looks like you are doing everything right to me. I'd toss in some Mexican Turbos and a Sea Hare or three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kshack Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Well, since you seem to have done everything right, I would say to just keep trimming by hand as much as possible and wait it out. I do think #5 and #7-8 are counter productive. With Zeovit they do not recommend using GFO with their system. Theory would be that bacteria need PO4, Nitrate, and Carbon source to grow. You are dosing carbon source (vodka, sugar, etc) to grow the bacteria (and also adding additional bacteria), but limiting their growth by using GFO and denitrator. I would think either stop reactors, or stop adding carbon-bacteria. I may be wrong...why not ask the Zeovit or Brightwell guys about combining the two different systems for nutrient reduction (reactors vs carbon). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralreefer Posted January 23, 2010 Author Share Posted January 23, 2010 Well, since you seem to have done everything right, I would say to just keep trimming by hand as much as possible and wait it out. I do think #5 and #7-8 are counter productive. With Zeovit they do not recommend using GFO with their system. Theory would be that bacteria need PO4, Nitrate, and Carbon source to grow. You are dosing carbon source (vodka, sugar, etc) to grow the bacteria (and also adding additional bacteria), but limiting their growth by using GFO and denitrator. I would think either stop reactors, or stop adding carbon-bacteria. I may be wrong...why not ask the Zeovit or Brightwell guys about combining the two different systems for nutrient reduction (reactors vs carbon). All good points...I've run a "hybrid" system, following example of others I've read posts from stating that they've had better results running GFO in combo with zeovit...I've been reluctant to pull denitrator offline (I know I could always put it back on) and GFO as my parameters have never been so pristine...I have literally spent years trying to reach nitrate/phosphate of zero and while corals have "finally" stated to show life and growth, stinkin' hair algae won't abate... I've used 3 or 4 sea hares with poor results...they died after week or so with hair algae in front of their face...yet my crabs, snails and shrimp thrive... I could pull "accessories" offline, add to my cleaning crew, drop in some algae picking fish, continue to weed...how about an urchin? DrMerle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgf86123 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 it couldnt hurt to try an urchin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Are you sure the algae is GHA? Might it be bryopsis? Some people have had success getting rid of bryopsis by boosting their Mg levels using Kent Tech M (some folks suggest there's something specific about Kent's product that helps, others say just raising their Mg levels did it...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgf86123 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 yeah, he's got a point reefer, if it is bryopsis, boost them to 1500, it will kill it all off good stuff that high mag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowman Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 if you boost your mg you have to keep it at the higher level or the algae will return Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new school Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 some people using carbon sources whether it be vodka, sugar, or bio-fuel have had the opposite of results expected and have experienced algae outbreaks. using a denitrator/carbon sourcing/media reactors you may be attempting to much nitrate and phosphate removal. its more than likely you have phosphates and nitrates even with the methods your using, the algae is being used at the level its supplied therefore making it difficult if not impossible to test. +1 to kshack for contacting vendors for additional chemical support. there could be problems with too many methods of removal and one could be affecting the other causing certain "unknown" nutrient levels to rise!! not particularly phosphates or nitrates, however something else we really do not have the means to test for?? do you have a "de-i" on your r.o. system? if so how many? just having a basic r.o. may not be enough to polish your supplied (well/city) water. most advanced aquarists have a 3 stage "basic" r.o sounding like posted plus one or more additional de-i.....also if you have a calcium reactor test for nitrate/phosphates on your effluent, some arogonite and reactor medias are super high in phosphates and dont get noticed till way too late! test your r.o effluent as well. you my find something overlooked. could be a bad membrane from the get go? most algae outbreaks are from phosphate/nitrate and or "some" excess nutrient available making algae's explode...... i use bio fuel and like it very much, i also use gfo and carbon in my two little fish reactors the same as you. i had to battle algae before and those tests helped me solve my issue. hope it can help you some...... +1 on always having your mag over 1350!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadReefer Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Macro algae can out compete it if used properly, without side effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegotjs Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Go buy 30 emerald crabs. They will take it all out and it will not return as long as your water quality is good . It will take a few months for them to get it all then you will need to cut there numbers way down as they wouln't have a food suppley any more . I am telling you from my own experince. I put 15 crabs in a 30 gallon . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 What are you feeding? Havent seen anyone ask this yet but I did not read the whole thread. Do you feed mysis or other frozen foods? Do you defrost it and discard the juice? Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 More than likely Phosphates, you should have it tested or ask another local reefer that has the kit to test. The source could be overfeeding, phos leeching from live rock, phos from crushed coral bed, a simple SHORT term fix is rowaphos or phosban if this is in fact your problem. Have your water tested... it should read zero phos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefboy Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 sea hare is a quick fix but I'm guessing inorganic phosphates may be the cause or even nitrate, people don't realize your test can test zero because algae is pulling from the system it usually only shows when its very high if you don't have much of a sand bed it could be releasing enough nitrate to cause your issue but not test because algae is pulling it from the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskerduck Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Does turning all lighting off for 2-3 days work, I thought I had read alot of the successful reefers do this once a month? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralreefer Posted January 30, 2010 Author Share Posted January 30, 2010 This is crazy but lights out for 3 days does nothing...my hair algae grows best in dark...it is "heaviest" in am when lights first come on...right now it is very easy to pull out...so I am close to where I should be...it is not bryopsis! I luckily have never had bryopsis...I have been reluctant to pull any additional methods (denitrator) offline due to the fact that I have finally reached one gola of reduction of nitrates... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finch6013 Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 You mentioned vodka dosing. I have read many posts of people having algae problems with vodka even at 0 N and 0 P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefboy Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 I have too something about it eventually out competes other types of beneficial bacteria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undrtkr_00 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Your light cycle is pretty short. I would think that running a refugium with reverse lighting (long hrs/day), your macro should suck up a lot of the nutrients that the HA is currently taking up during the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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