AC-k3v

Back in those days I was importing live rock from Hawaii and would bring in sometime up to 30 boxes at a time.

was it this guy you got it from? lol

http://archives.starbulletin.com/2003/02/01/news/story3.html

Look into www.shiptohawaii.com or DHX ocean freight. I think DHX has a port in Seattle. Ocean freight will take 7 days.

Food for thought...

I had my tank built in CA and shipped to Hawaii. Total cost with shipping included was cheaper than any estimate I got locally.

This is Hawaii. EVERYTHING costs more.

I suggest shipping the tank as well. The LFS on Maui are pretty much non-existent. All your livestock will come from Oahu.

I can help you with that though.

...but I do believe that some people are taking as many as they can get' date=' and that "something" needs to be done. What that something is I do not know.[/quote']

 

I agree with this statement.

Sorry about saying you could find another job' date=' it was insensitive.[/quote']

 

No worries. I built cars in my past life. After running a car forum for the last 6 years and being members for years longer, you get thick skin.

 

I would really like to thank you. I always like a good debate. I respect your opinions. And some we do agree on.

 

Aloha Gill!

 

Kevin

Maui!? Well, if you ever crave nightlife or excitement you are welcome on my couch for the weekend.

Maui is beautiful! If i ever moved there, upcountry is my spot. Makawao area.

Aloha!

Kevin

Ok I guess you missed my point' date=' if pollution, scuba bob, ext. Are to be equally blamed; them why is the effect on different fish species not equal? Why are we seeing the most dramatic declines in yellow tangs, the most collected fish If I am not mistaken??? Hmmm... Let me think why would yellow tangs be in such decline??? [/quote']

 

Personally, i think they are the worst looking tang in this hobby. (I hate yellow tangs)

 

anyway...

 

You are correct, the yellow tang is the most collected. So put bag limits, limit size, regulate the catch. Don't ban and destroy the whole industry. There are studies proving that the yellow tang population is up in conservation areas and that these fish are overflowing into non-conservation areas.

 

 

This is about conservation it absolutely is.

 

This bill is an all out ban on this industry.

 

I am sure you could find another job to put clothes on your daughters back' date=' I am admit it would probably be less enjoyable work but you have a way more enjoyable job then most of us.[/quote']

 

In this economy and in these islands... not as easy as you think. But sure, you point is taken.

but gill quotes what you said about a human toll on the environment rather than collectors.

i dont think he was blaming collectors

it is just silly to point a finger at one person. it is all of the factors combined, no matter how small any one peticular element is.

I may of misunderstood his post then. If i did i apologize. This is a very emotional topic for my family and many friends' families.

Kevin

None of this explains why yellow tangs are in such decline??? There is one blatantly obvious explanation however.

You're saying that aquarium collectors and no one else is the reason for the yellow tangs decline? I find that comical. The study you posted is finger pointing the collectors as i assumed your comment to do. I refuse to believe the fish collectors in this state is solely responsible for the decline of the yellow tang or any other fish for that matter.

And me bias, of course i am... I'll be the first to admit it. I'm not going to let one person take the roof over my head and the clothes off my daughters back.

We are getting of the point of this thread. This is a ban, this is not work toward any kind of conservation or sustainability efforts.

true....true...true... i still stand by my statement however

Understood.

It's not just hotels... Hurricanes have destroyed more reefs in this state than anything else. In 2006, 40 Million gallons of raw sewage spilled off of Waikiki. The recent floods we had a month ago had washed trash from the landfill in our oceans and closed all beaches on the west side of Oahu. Kaneohe Bay, home of the largest barrier reef in the US is under study now about water quality due to sedimentation from run off. Reefs on the same bay are being smothered by invasive "gorilla ogo". Introduced by the marine biologists on coconut island years ago. (oops) There is a problem with the Roi, or peacock grouper, killing our reef fishes. For some reason someone thought it would be a good idea to bring the invasive Roi in to make spear fishing more fun.

Who is the weakest of the bunch? Who out of all parties doesn't have millions to defend themselves? The aquarium trade. Thanks snorkel bob.

Kevin

Hawaii has 806 miles of protein skimmer.

Bills don't cost anything to write up... I'm in the process of writing a bill to ban snorkel tours on Hawaii Reefs. The impact on the reef from snorkel tours is devastating. Leaky oil from outboard motors, tourists sitting and standing on the reefs, tourists taking pieces home as souvenirs, chemical polution from suntan oil, etc... It's a real problem here in Hawaii.

I may have some questions for you later Kevin. I'm working on a paper dealing with these issues right now in my WR 122 class. You sound like a good resource.

Aloha,

Just shoot me an email: kevin(at)alohacorals(dot)com

Listen, this may not be a popular opinion(especially on an aquarium enthusiast web page), but here it goes:

Taking fish from the wild really isn't that immoral. But it is when it spans beyond the local area and into a national market that there is potential danger for messing up an ecosystem, thus it becomes immoral to participate in the masses. We all know how delicate a reef is, just think about your tank- if you take out some of your fish, then there will be a new adjustment in how the system handles a decrease in nutrients and inevitably, there will be shifts. In the case of a wild reef with collectors, this becomes even more true. If you think about the types of fish and corals available on a regular basis, there isn't that much in comparison to the large numbers of species available. There are THOUSANDS if not more species of fish. so if the collectors focus on the fish that known to the hobbyist, that are the most desirable, then there is an in balance in that species because a fish collector will get fish that will sell. If you take out a crucial part of the food chain (even if you decrease the amount of that fish), there will be negative effects. perhaps the damage would be minimal if every fish species was collected equally, then there would be a partially proportional effect. However when one area is taken out, there is a big difference. If you take out one fish, you really aren't taking out just one. That fish will reproduce, thus you are taking out multiple fish.

Then you take into account the number that die in transit, the horrible effect of cyanide and other poisons for collecting purposes... its a big deal. (even if it isnt in hawaii)

 

This being said, this is NOT meant to be an attack in any (i repeat ANY) sort of way to you kevin. Your corals are beautiful, and i have no doubt that you are a conscious reefer/collector. Perhaps even every collector in Hawaii is humane and good with collecting. But the truth of the matter is that in other areas, there are people who are not as considerate. This is the problem

 

I myself, will only buy fish from Hawaii, and preferably tank raised.

This bill, even if it stomps on our hobby, is a move to perserve fish.

Isnt that what our hobby is about? admiring wildlife? what better way than to Help SAVE our reefs than to minimize collecting?

Perhaps the bill is a little too closed, but i think regulation is required worldwide in order to maintain the ecosystems

I will not take offense to your post. I actually appreciate your opinion. Thank you.

Minimize collecting... Fine. All out Ban, NO thank you. This just the beginning. If a bill like this passes, i predict a domino effect. The outcome, who knows... but its not going to be good.

Do you know that snorkel bob compared you to a pedophile? (I'm assuming you have a tank)

http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/editorial-070814-1.html

We want to convert home hobbyists, not get them pissed off in a name-calling exchange. We want to shame them gently. I think of the internet pedophiles lured into the kitchen where the MSNBC cameras are rolling so the world can see them-they hang their heads, knowing their appetite is so wicked. Aquarium keeping is similarly shameful, but the perpetrators must be treated with understanding and help toward rehabilitation.

Aloha and Mahalo again for your post.

Kevin

Please don't take my comments the wrong way. The marine conservation areas in my eyes are a good thing. They work! Banning fish like Hawaiian Cleaner wrasse and morish idol collection. Fine.

I like to read articles like this: http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20101223_Study_finds_reserves_replenish_fish_widely.html#

What i'm against is an all out ban, propaganda, and personal vendettas.

This is a ten year old report' date=' but it shows IMO a pretty obvious correlation between the collecting of fishes for the aquarium trade and the decline in there numbers. [url']http://www.coralreefnetwork.com/kona/WHAP%202001%20Final%20report.pdf[/url]

Uhg... Bill Walsh. of course. lol

Have you read Ret Talbots latest article on Hawaii? He touches a bit on Mr. Walsh's data and has the same thoughts as i on it. Take a look: (Worrisome Data) http://coralmagazine.coverleaf.com/coral/20110102?sub_id=BM5ZGjld2Z4dt#pg82

Kevin

In your opinion is the harvesting of fish out of control-Are there any controls/ permit process for harvesting?

IMO... No, harvesting of fish is not out of control. Are there people out here that give us a bad name, yes. There is a lot of politics here in this industry. You could call it self regulation. Un-Written rules that if they are broken, you will never be able to do business here again. As with island culture, you don't burn bridges.

The older divers teach the young. We think about tomorrow. We think about our kids we plan to hand this down to. You see fly-by-nighters come here looking to make a quick buck. You also see them disappear real quick if they over step their boundaries and break these un-written rules.

Please take a look here: http://hawaiitropicalsaltwateraquariumfish.com/

As far as controls/ permit process for harvesting... There are permits needed and catch reports to fill out monthly. Even if you don't fish you have to tell them you didn't. If not or your report is late, you get fined. There are no bag limits in place. There are marine reserve areas that are not allowed to be fished in.

I have not met a person in this industry that is not conscious about sustainability and conservation. We make our living this way, the last thing we want is for it to go away. Especially from our own doing. There have been no hard evidence or research done to prove aquarium industry fishing is depleting our fish population. If there was, i doubt anyone in this industry would not take the proper steps to change it. Snorkel Bob likes to quote numbers, but has yet to produce where he gets them.

Kevin

So it looks as if it makes it illegal to have tank with marine fish too??

 

There is a blurb to the effect of letting people collect for personal aquarium use:

SECTION 2. Section 188-31, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended to read as follows:

 

"§188-31 Permits to take aquatic life for aquarium purposes.

 

(a) Except as prohibited by law, the department, upon receipt of a written application, may issue an aquarium fish permit, not longer than one year in duration, to take aquatic life and to use fine meshed traps, or fine meshed nets other than throw nets, for the taking of marine or freshwater nongame fish and other aquatic life for aquarium purposes. No person shall take aquatic life for aquarium purposes or use fine meshed traps or fine meshed nets other than throw nets to take marine or freshwater nongame fish and other aquatic life for aquarium purposes without an aquarium fish permit.

 

(b) Except as prohibited by law, the permits shall be issued only to persons who can satisfy the department that they possess facilities to and can maintain fish and other aquatic life alive and in reasonable health[.] and who can satisfy the department that the methods of capture, husbandry, and transport are humane and will not result in substantial injury to or death of the taken aquatic life.

 

© It shall be illegal to sell or offer for sale any fish and other aquatic life taken under an aquarium fish permit [unless those fish and other aquatic life are sold alive for aquarium purposes]. The department may adopt rules pursuant to chapter 91 for the purpose of this section.

 

(d) For the purposes of this section:

 

(1) "Aquarium purposes" means to hold salt water fish, freshwater nongame fish, or other aquatic life alive in a state of captivity as pets, for scientific study, [or] for public exhibition or display, or for sale for any of these purposes; [and]

 

(2) "Aquarium fish permit" means a permit issued by the board for the taking of aquatic life and for the use of fine mesh nets and traps to take salt water fish, freshwater nongame fish, or other aquatic life for aquarium purposes[.];

(3) "Aquatic life" means any type or species of mammal, fish, amphibian, reptile, mollusk, crustacean, arthropod, invertebrate, coral, or other animal that inhabits the freshwater or marine environment and includes any part, product, egg, or offspring thereof; or freshwater or marine plants, including seeds, roots, products, and other parts thereof; and

(4) "Sell" means to transfer, prescribe, give, or deliver to another; to leave, barter, or exchange with another; or to offer or agree to do the same to another for consideration."

Lets say that they do give aquarium permits. Good for me and my aquarium, but you guys get nothing. You can enjoy my pictures though. DOH!

There will be hundreds of families effected by this bill!

Kevin

I just called and opposed it

Mahalo! Your help is greatly appreciated!

Kevin

There are 5 more bills on the horizon.

[sarcasm] 2011 is going to be a fun year. [/sarcasm]

This is what will happen if my daughter catches a minnow at the tide pools:

(1) For a first offense, shall be fined not more than $1,000 or thirty days imprisonment, or both;

(2) For a second offense within five years of a previous violation, shall be fined not more than $2,000 or sixty days imprisonment, or both; and

(3) For a third or subsequent violation within five years of a previous violation, shall be fined not more than $3,000 or ninety days imprisonment, or both.

I'm just going to copy and paste what i posted on my local forum...

---------------------------------

Aloha,

I just received word that Senate Bill 580 will be heard this coming Thursday. This bill is, plain and simple, a complete statewide ban on the aquarium industry.

The hearing will be at 1:15 PM, at the state capitol (room 225).

Here is the hearing notice:

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/sessio..._02-03-11_.HTM

Here is a copy of the bill:

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/sessio...lls/SB580_.htm

It's critically important that we attack this bill as hard as we can right now. If it passes out of this committee it'll give our opposition time to publicize the issue and make our lives that much harder. Everybody NEEDS to come to this hearing!

Also, everybody needs to:

- Call the office of Senator Dela Cruz and say that you're opposed to SB580. The phone number is 808-586-6090. Do this right away!

- Prepare written testimony against the bill. The deadline is 24 hours before the hearing, so this needs to be done by Wednesday afternoon. However, attending the hearing in person is far more important than written testimony and carries much more weight.

- Get everybody you know (friends, family etc.) to do the same thing! The more the better.

I'll update as things go along. Just to let you know there are 5 more bills to be presented in the very near future. We need everyone's help.

Thanks,

Kevin

---------------------------------

(rock2)OIAB is looking GGGRRRRRRREEAAATTT!!! thanks guys. replenished the clean up crew(ausome price!) and got some ausome polys(rock2)

 

RVPE

(too short)

That's pretty cool! nice.

I'm way lazy when it comes to top off. I use tap, so i'm going to Tee off the water feed on my fridge. Normally closed solenoid and a float switch and i'll never have to fill anything again! w00t!