RO/DI Auto Top off

[drock59]

Im looking to hook up the RO/DI unit to the auto top off tub. However, I am struggling to figure out how to properly arrange things so I dont get a flood. I assume I need some sort of shut off switch and likely a fail safe system. Any advise or ideas appreciated.

[Frank]

Here is a great sight http://www.autotopoff.com/products.html

[andy]

Personally, I don't like the idea of 'live' water plumbed to my system. I've had too many failsafes fail already; something that can dump essentially infinite amounts of water onto my floor needs the human touch imo

 

However, if I *had* to automate it I'd probably control it with two separate solenoid valves in series off the RO/DI, controlled by a two-float-switch combination driving another solenoid. Might as well throw a Kent float valve on the end, too. It probably sounds like overkill, but it'd be worth it for peace of mind to me.

[Smann]

Woody at Seahorse gave me his idea for a simple top off and i've been running it for years without a problem.I have a 40g rm garbage can that is kept full by ro/di unit on a simple battery operated sprinkler timer(home depot) that comes on daily for 2hrs. drop in a maxi 1200 with 1/4" tubing to a kent float valve at your sump water level. put the maxi on a timer to come on maybe 3-4 times in 24hrs for 30 min, I put a T in the line at the maxi for a bypass plus it will break a syphon. this way you are not plumbed direct to a water source and you dont have to worry about elec switchs failing

I now have the maxi on my controller to run at night thru a kalk reactor, I have it set to come on every hr for 3 min this doses approx 1 cup at at time. It starts at midnight and runs thru 9am, again using a float valve you dont have to worry about overfilling or overdosing

[defigart]

Smann,

 

Can we see pictures?

[kriswaters]

I have mine plumbed directly into my sump. The shut off is a float as one would find in a horse trough....to date the only trouble I have had is the inlet tubing slipping out of the fixture and dumping a few unwanted gallons of water on my floor...I have learned to check the connection often. As for the filling of the sump, it is tryed and true. the float reaches a point and shuts off the valve. There is no electrical parts to fail and the mechanism is simple and care free. Even if something at the unit fails, the float blocks the hole and water can not enter the sump past a certain level.

 

I will add...I will change this set up slightly when I move to my new tank...an RO/DI reseviour that feeds the sump.

 

 

Kris

[Rob Allen]

There are a couple solutions that I have used and have had great success with, however I never used any solution to take water directly from a RO unit. My solutions always required filling up a baucket manually. We also believe in buffering freshwater before using it and there is now way to do that directly from a RO unit. There is one solution, the more expensive, which I have a higher comfort level with. I have thrown together a couple drawings to give you an idea of the setup.

 

Tsunami AT-1 Solution (lower cost - about $84):

Items Needed:

- Tsunami AT-1 (cost about - $57 - http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=254)

- MaxiJet 1200 (cost about - $22 - http://www.aquacave.com/maxi-jet-1200-power-head-br-295gph-by-aquarium-systems-1339.html)

- Misc. tubing (cost about $5)

How it works: - The AT-1 box has a power cord, which is always plugged in. It has a power outlet and an air hose which goes to a tube that goes to the location in your sump where the water level drops from evaperation. The tube in the sump works on pressure. The higher the water the more pressure detected by the AT-1 and keeps the power shut off to the outlet. When the water lowers, the pressure drops and the AT-1 turns on the power to the outlet. The outlet will turn on a pump, in this case a Maxijet 1200 which is located in the fresh water bucket. It fills up the sump until the tube detects pressure again, turning off the outlet on the AT-1.

- CON: the tube is held on with Eheim suction cups. Even though these are the best suction cups in the hobby, there is still a chance they could let go and turn the pump on. The only time this happened to me, it was my fault and didn't overflow the sump as the tube only floated so far and still shut the water off.

- Maintenance: Occassionally clean the tube to prevent salt from clogging it, which would only prevent water from being added and not overflowing the sump.

 

 

Tunze Osmolator 3155 Solution (higher cost - about $196):

Items Needed:

- Tunze Osmolator 3155 (complete with everything needed - cost about $196 - http://www.aquacave.com/tunze-osmolator-3155br-water-level-regulationbr-system-1309.html)

How it works: - This is a little more complex, but has some great safety features. There are plastic rails which attach to the side of the sump holding an electronic eye and an emergency high float. The controller has LED indicators on it letting you know exactly what the system is doing (Too High, Level, Pump On or Too Low). When the water drops below the electronic eye, it will turn on the included pump to return the level back to normal. If the water gets too high, the float will lift killing power to the pump and sounding an alarm that can easily be heard in most houses regardless of your sump location. If the water drops below the electronic eye too far the same alarm sounds.

- CON: We typically had to unplug the unit when the return pump was shut off as it would trigger the "too high" float. This was due to our setup and was only a problem when we forgot to plug it back in.

- Maintenance: Occassionally clean the electronic eye - never had a problem with it.

*** This is the best ATO unit that I have come across and worth every penny -- I never had to worry about it when we were on vacation, it simply works ***

[siskiou]

I have my RO/DI filling a top-off container set up with a float valve. Got one pump in there, stirring the Kalk three times a day, and another small pump connected to a two-float-switch combination.

The top-off line has a valve set to about 3 drops per second, so even if both switches fail, I should hope fully notice before the slow drip fills up the sump too much.

 

So far, it's worked great for about a year. I have to clear the valve out every couple of weeks, because the Kalk tends to slowly clog it up.

[JeffP]

I've got the Ozmolator and love it. No problems at all, easy to maintain/operate.

[mister crabs]

I have the JBJ ATO and have had no problems so far. comes with 2 float switches as well.

[drock59]

Let me clarify a bit. I currently have an auto top off that works fine. What I want to do is run my RO/DI unit directly to the tank so I dont have to fill the bucket. I am tired of doing that chore.

 

 

As of now the plan is get a solenoid to connect the the ATO system in place of my pump. I will simply plumb the ro/di line through the solenoid and into the sump. I will then plug the solenoid into the two float switches in the sump, one low mark and one emergency switch.

 

Then I will steal the timer idea and plug everything into that. If i let the timer run for 1 hour, twice a day, i think that will do the trick.

 

Does anyone see any major faults in my thinking?

[drock59]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140759&perpage=25&highlight=solenoid&pagenumber=1

[mister crabs]

i dont know why that wouldnt work.

[drock59]

Famous last words: It seems like it will be pretty fail safe. Not to mention one last chore. Ill try to report back when I get this resolved. (clap)

[kriswaters]

Seems as if it would work. The RO/DI unit I purchased had a auto-shut off device. You can purchase them seperately and add them to your current system. It also came with a plastic bulb float. I drilled a small hole in the sump, put the float inside, screwed down the bulk head assembly and attached the water line to the fitting. Here is a picture of the system.

 

 

 

Everything has worked fine to date...its been installed for about 1 year now. The best part of the entire deal is stable salinity! I know I used to truck water in from my LFS, then fill a pitcher up from that supply, then fill my sump...yada yada...this is sooo much nicer, plus, no electrical hook-ups and nothing to fail.

 

 

Kris

[Rob Allen]

I live in a house that is tight. The only problem with that is CO2 buildup drops the pH in a tank. We had pH problems in the winter and in peak summer. Yes, it took us a while to figure out why. It was always a struggle to keep the pH above 8 during these times. Where are you going with this, you ask?

 

RO water pH is typically between 6 and 7, typically closer to 7. Adding that slowly, yes, will have little or no impact to your tank (depending on size). However, when you are doing everything possible to keep your pH above 8, adding 6 to 7 pH water to a tank isn't helping. So, this is the main reason I place the water in a container, add buffer and airate for about 24 hours before placing it in the tank. People who don't believe in buffering, airation alone will increase the pH.

 

Just my 2cents.

[andy]

The two float switches are a good idea, but one solenoid valve is a single point of failure. I'd use two in series, it's a cheap insurance policy against a potentially very large flood.

[Rob Allen]

However, the solenoid takes the pressure off the RO unit, where the floats leave the pressure on all the connections from the RO to the float(s). The solenoid also removes salt creep from the equation. But, you are correct, it is a single point of failure. In this case the solenoid is closed without power or by default. For the most part I would think it would close with a problem, but..... There is alot that can go wrong, but with frequent maintenance it eliminates most of the potential problems.

[drock59]

I like to think that I have many points of failure. DOH! In the setup I will going with there are two float switches attached to a solenoid. Followed by a timer. What are the chances all of those fail? Especially when all the the parts of the system except the float switches, will not be exposed to salt water.

 

At this point I am just wondering what are the chances that both float switches fail at the same time that the solenoid fails and that the timer comes on. The solenoid will be attached to the two floats, if the lower switch fails, water will rise to the upper switch and cut off power. If the solenoid fails, I assume it fails in the closed position. Is this inaccurate? The default position should be for the solenoid to be closed without power, no? This could be a major oversight if it is not the case.

 

Obviously, I am trying to talk myself into doing this project, but I would rather not have a flood.

[drock59]

I currently have a glass sump and I was thinking I could add a float valve as another level of security, but I am not sure how I could make that happen with glass. I dont really want to drill, the side of my glass tank. Any other ideas on how to use the float valve?

[andy]

The timer is a nice addition. Can't say how likely two float switches are to fail. I had one get stuck and fill my sump to the brim. In my mind, if one failed pretty easily it's not too hard to imagine that two can fail... but I'm probably just being paranoid (scary) A float switch plus a float valve on a timer sure seems like it should be enough.

[andy]

I currently have a glass sump and I was thinking I could add a float valve as another level of security' date=' but I am not sure how I could make that happen with glass. I dont really want to drill, the side of my glass tank. Any other ideas on how to use the float valve?[/quote']

 

I'd make a clamp-on bracket out of acrylic.

[drock59]

ya, "seems" like enough.

 

I have had the two float switches on my ATO for well over two years with zero problem.

 

I will post, when I get this all figured out.

[kriswaters]

Rob I understand you point about PH. I currently run an airline out the window from my skimmer. This really helps maintain my PH, as well as reverse lighting between the main and the sump. On my new tank, I do plan on switching to an RO/DI container that feeds the skimmer, but will maintain the same float system. As for the pressure on the system, the gauge says it all...80 psi when on and 0 psi when off. Perhaps the small "auto shut off" valve may eventually fail, but those are easily replaced.

 

Kris

[WAVES]

Dan have you seen the auto top offs Ive been making? They are pretty fail safe. Ive been using them on my tank at home for about 5 years.

 

I didnt read the RC thread, but be leary of any float switches that are the type with the donut shape over a shaft. They are far more likely to get stuck vs a lever type of switch.

 

On the ones I make there are two switches for a fail safe, so they would both have to have a snail on them or something for it to over top off. I also use a kalk reactor, so now I have an additional solenoid to shut off the top off if my pH gets too high. So if the regular top off failed, the pH would rise to much from too much kalk and the extra solenoid would trip. So now I have two switches and a pH probe working for me to be sure there isnt too much top off.