Frag tray keep or ditch? Nitrate control? Possible I.D.

[ChrisQ]

Wanted to get the opinion of the fine folks of PNWMAS on some options i may have.

 

Long story short, after a couple tank crashes i lost about 85% of my coral so this frag tray is pretty barren. Lately i've been sticking some smaller rock in it in an attempt to help control nitrates (Not a lot of rock in the DT and none in sump) but this frag tray wants to now act as a fuge it seems, lots of hair algae growing, no CUC smaller hermits would get trapped in the molded "valleys" in the tray as there was no sand in there to level it out. 

 

One of the things i was considering was giving up on the frag tray (would be nice if it was deep enough for a Yellow Tang but only 5'' deep) any frags i had put in there to try and save from the higher flow and light of the DT would quickly become overrun with hair algae.

 

Another was trying to use it to grow macros, but my first thought was a high flood risk.

With the drains and making sure it can't "Dam" itself anywhere restricting flow.

 

If i go with removing it, it's a fairly simple task, lots of unions! Easy to take apart move,service or if a critter somehow gets stuck in a pipe and dies, which brings me to the Nitrate problem.

 

All fish are accounted for but i have some serious houdini rainbow bubbles tips. I used to keep them in the fuge section of my sump, it's feed from the return section with a mj1200 draining back to the return via 1'' pipe. So one day one of the splits decided to go walkabout into the return section(probably the same one that was riding my turbo snails around ) from the 1'' drain. This lucky/unlucky nem popped out the pipe about 2'' away from the intake of the DC12000, well sure enough he made his way in there too. Here's where it gets a little bit interesting, not only did he survive the journey through the impeller and what seems like taking a left turn coming out into my DT right next to a RW-20. Can't tell you guys how shocked i was to see a happy nem sitting on a rock in the DT

 

The left black hose is the return line for the DT and the straight with the union feeds the frag tray.

So when it comes to these insane nitrates and i mean off the api chart, blood red over 160 been that high since at least 4/9 i started to think maybe the test is bad so tonight i tested some of the little bit of water i had leftover from the last WC in a brute sitting stagnant for a couple weeks it came out to around 20-40 Nothing has brought this down, growing chaeto great,heavy skimming, large WC even dropped 2-100g packs of purigen and a 140g system

 

So back to the nem, if one could make a turn and end up in the display chances are pretty high another could have gone straight and died enroute to the frag tray.

 

Question is, with them being small splits how long should it take to decay stuck in piping and could it cause this much nitrate?

 

 

The return for the frag tray the nem may have gotten into

 

 

 

 

Then there's this mess, i'm sure all the detritus being trapped is not helping.

 

 

 

 

Finally to i.d. some strange purple "pill" shaped stuff i've only seen once before.

Sorry for the bad pictures. Note i'm about to try and rid my system soon of red planaria, could it maybe be die off of some of the flatworms? It doesn't seem alive and blows away easily.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks in advance for any insight you guys may have.

Sorry about writing a book over here, i may have gotten carried away. 

[Lexinverts]

I would ditch the tray.

 

If you want a separate system for frags, use a 40 breeder, or something deep enough for good algae eating fish, like a Foxface, Bristletooth Tang, Blennie, etc...

 

I had a frag tray system too, and I was constantly fighting algae problems.

 

It seems to me that all of that detritus in your tray could be largely responsible for the high nitrates. I recommend that you get the Salifert Nitrate test rather than the API, with is notoriously inaccurate.

 

Good luck!

[kireek]

It does seem that your nitrate is coming from the build up in the tray.I would recommend adding more live rock to the system.As for the ID ,I think you just have red coraline algae.

[ChrisQ]

I would ditch the tray.

 

If you want a separate system for frags, use a 40 breeder, or something deep enough for good algae eating fish, like a Foxface, Bristletooth Tang, Blennie, etc...

 

I had a frag tray system too, and I was constantly fighting algae problems.

 

It seems to me that all of that detritus in your tray could be largely responsible for the high nitrates. I recommend that you get the Salifert Nitrate test rather than the API, with is notoriously inaccurate.

 

Good luck!

 

I'm starting to really lean that way, would be nice to be able to see through it as well. 

Coincidently i have 3 perfect 40b's sitting here except none are drilled, no glass bits and no experience drilling glass. Also not sure how to plumb a 40b similarly to how the tray is plumbed.

 

It does seem that your nitrate is coming from the build up in the tray.I would recommend adding more live rock to the system.As for the ID ,I think you just have red coraline algae.

 

I guess my first order of business is to mix up 25g of water (tray holds about 20g) remove as much hair algae from the few rocks that are in the tray and toss the rocks in the DT for the flame angel and yellow tang to clean up and siphon the tray clean

 

With the i.d. it's soft and tends to gather on mats of cyano like stuff that easily blows off. I will try and get better pictures this afternoon when the whites come on even if i have to cut the flow and remove a chunk of the "mat" and put it in a dish.

 

 

 

Thanks guys for the input so far! 

[TheClark]

My guess for what it's worth (not much!) is that the nitrates are coming from feeding.

 

Just my guess.  

 

I had a terrible long lasting algae problem from over loving my fish.

 

Roy told me to switch to Frozen Mysis and Nori only on alternating days.  Algae disappeared in short order never to come back after fighting it off and on for years.

 

Now that the tank is under control I have been slowly increasing feeding to find that sweet spot.  Still sticking to quality frozen foods and mysis only though!

 

Good luck Chris, never fun fighting algae!

[ChrisQ]

My guess for what it's worth (not much!) is that the nitrates are coming from feeding.

 

Just my guess.  

 

I had a terrible long lasting algae problem from over loving my fish.

 

Roy told me to switch to Frozen Mysis and Nori only on alternating days.  Algae disappeared in short order never to come back after fighting it off and on for years.

 

Now that the tank is under control I have been slowly increasing feeding to find that sweet spot.  Still sticking to quality frozen foods and mysis only though!

 

Good luck Chris, never fun fighting algae!

 

 

Before i realized just how out of control the nitrates have climbed to ( Lex has a very good point on getting a quality test ) i had been feeding San Francisco bay brand mysis and marine cuisine thawed and thoroughly pressed with paper towels removing as much liquid as i could and replacing it with Selcon and Kent's garlic. It still would mix up somewhat dry and i don't add any rodi or anything to it to thin it out so it comes out off my large syringe in pea sized clumps until a fish hits it breaking it all up. So i probably am feeding way too much. At this time i was running filter socks. After fighting with trying to lower my nitrates for awhile i stopped the frozen pulled the sock and only feed a little Ocean nutrition prime reef flake every couple days and my fish are pretty angry, fighting and harassing a lot.

 

 

Battling the algae doesn't bother me as much as literally watching my first and oldest fish and corals unhappy and detaching from their skeleton and float away into a powerhead, last few months it was plump heads of acan colonies, last few weeks my hammer colonies, one head of a small torch all grown from frags. Even a blasto frag that was doing great but has lost several babies Day before yesterday one of two heads of frogspawn. All of these detaching from the skeleton and hitting powerheads. 

 

 

As you can imagine, something very strange (to me anyway) is going on and i'm getting desperate to save what's left.      

[TheClark]

So sorry good luck and hope you track down the cause.

[ChrisQ]

Success!

 

 

I first started out with a 75g WC which barely made a dent in no3 and removed all the rocks in the tray that were plagued with hair algae and tossed them and then siphoning out every bit of detritus and unfortunately a few heads of branching hammer that were detached (Honestly, i had no idea all that detritus was in the tray being i always ran all blues on the tray and never seen it until the flash of the camera)

then moved onto the main display and siphoned all the rock and got all the piles from a few dead spots i had and again a couple heads of nicely minced hammer and another 70g WC around a day later. Next added about 50-75 lbs. of well established rock from a tank i just brought down to the DT and tray and added a powerhead on the bottom to eliminate the chance of anything building up there.

 

 

 

For the time being i decided to keep the tray running and moved all but one of my rainbow bubble tips to the tray(Can't get that guy and i kinda like where he is   ) this nem came from Steve a.k.a ssappington (Awesome guy!) and we all know Steve has nice nems! This thing has split 5 times now and since they have figured out how to make their way to the DT from the sump gauntlet maybe i can keep them safe in the tray. There is only one Azure damsel and two turbo's in the tray right now, i would like to load it up with much more snails. The damsel is only in there because i have nowhere else for him and i think he likes it in there  .

 

Here's a quick pic of their 1st split.

 

 

 

Here's where they sit now

 

 

Next i went down and had a nice chat with Tom at Upscales (Always a good talk with Tom  ) and explained my problem and i ended up picking up my much needed Salifert No3 kit and came home with a bottle of Brightwell's Reef Bio Fuel. I think maybe after the previous 2nd WC and the addition of the reef bio fuel is responsible for the quick improvement. 

 

When i started to attack this a while ago i was well over 160ppm according to API and as of yesterday's tests i'm in between 25-50 ppm. Funny thing, API and the Salifert are really close together lol

 

Yesterday's parameters

 

S.G. 1.026 (Refractometer) Calibrated with RO/DI only 

Ca. 510 (Salifert) 

Alk. 9.1 ~target 8.5~ (Salifert)

Mg. 1410 (salifert)

No3. 25-50 (Salifert)

PO4. 0.02 Red Sea

Temp 78.5

 

 

And since we all love pictures.....even sometimes the bad ones 

Most of this was the couple semi-crashes i had before i noticed the nitrates skyrocketed.

The semi-crashes were due to variations in test kits as to where its time for a refill and the new kit is quite a bit off from the kit you've been using the whole time, so i've learned my lesson and always buy my refills way ahead of time so i can easily compare them.

 

 

 

 

What doesn't kill ya only makes you stronger so i'll be on the serious hunt to replenish my reef (been trying to get you guys a FTS) so you will probably see some sale threads from me popping up 

 

I'll be on the hunt for zoas,torches,hammers,acans, caps of diff. colors and encrusting montiporas and possibly a plate (never had one) and of course all those sps i lost but i'll be holding on those as i monitor the recovery of the tank first haha and get a calcium reactor because 3+ years of manually dosing 2-part with sps is enough to drive a person nuts 

 

Basically, seeing this improvement this quickly has inspired me to hold on and at least start down the road to try and replace some of what has been lost.   

 

[ChrisQ]

I'm officially on the hunt for frags!