Help plumbing 180

[tenderfoot]

So I have had a envision tank sitting for a year and I have everything finally and I'm ready to plumb.

 

I'm going flex pipe all around and I'm seeking somone to possibly come to my home and help or supervise. Pick your poison for what your time is worth. I am out near hillsboro airport.

 

Main thing is I have never built a herbie on the inside of the overflow and want that built right.

 

Cheers

 

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[Higher Thinking]

You lose more pump head pressure with flex tubing. That being said, it's much easier to place than cutting pvc corners, turns, etc. When are you trying to get this done? Last week of the year is probably the busiest for most folks.

[tenderfoot]

You lose more pump head pressure with flex tubing. That being said, it's much easier to place than cutting pvc corners, turns, etc. When are you trying to get this done? Last week of the year is probably the busiest for most folks.

What kind of head loss are we talking here? I am looking as soon as possible. Whenever is convenient for whomever.

 

Thanks for the response.

 

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[The ReefBox]

I'm confused why would you lose more head pressure with flex its the multiple hard 90!s and fittings I believe that reduce cause more head loss but please correct if wrong

[tenderfoot]

I've always seen a reduction with 90s and elbows not flex. I'm curious too.

 

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[SGT_York]

Depending on the diameter of the pipe and head height.  

 

I wouldn't go less than 1.5" pipes on the return and no less than 1.5" on the open channel you can get away with 1.25 on the siphon, but 1.5" is easy to find the swept Y T's.

 

Friction loss is higher in flex pipe than in straight hard pipe but that doesn't factor into the elbows.  You can do the math with these numbers;

 

1.5" Pipe head loss (ft per 100 ft) .......... 2" Pipe head loss

GPM .... Rigid PVC .... Flex PVC ........ Rigid PVC .... Flex PVC

10 ............ 0.71 .............. 0.97 ................ 0.22 ............. 0.27

20 ............ 2.45 .............. 3.68 ................ 0.74 ............. 1.01

30 ............ 5.09 .............. 8.13 ................ 1.53 ............. 2.21

40 ............ 8.57 ............ 14.31 ................ 2.56 ............. 3.88

50 .......... 12.87 ............ 22.22 ................ 3.83 ............. 6.01

60 .......... 17.97 ............ 31.87 ................ 5.33 ............. 8.60

70 .......... 23.85  ........... 43.25  ............... 7.06 ........... 11.65

80 .......... 30.51 ............ 56.37 ................ 9.01 ........... 15.16

90 .......... 37.93  ........... 71.22  ............. 11.18 ........... 19.13

100 ........ 46.11  ........... 87.80  ............. 13.57 ........... 23.57

Edited December 22, 2015 by SGT_York

[tenderfoot]

so 1.5 for returns? can you share the logic for this recommendation? James built all holes in the tank 1 inch. 3 in the external overflow and 2 on the back wall for returns. That is what i have to work with.

[Higher Thinking]

Yeah, the actual tubing itself has more friction than hard pvc. Depending on how far you're plumbing, I suppose that's not an issue. I ran PVC 20-25 feet under my house so I was definitely concerned about it. But you're correct, hard elbows play a factor as well.

[Bevo5]

I'm by no means an expert and I might be wrong about this - but if you have 1in holes then you're going to be using .75in bulkheads right? If so, that means you probably need at least two of those to run full siphon to get your turnover. That leaves you with one emergency drain which might not be able to handle the full load if needed.

 

That would just be something to keep in mind when figuring out your pump size etc. You would run two full siphon and then one dry/drip emergency line. That's gonna cut it close if you're turning over 10x...which might be too much anyway.

 

Someone else probably has better answers for that.

[tenderfoot]

Thanks for weighing in. So you are saying the drains are critical to have 1.5, and what about the returns? I know I am not using .75 bulkheads. I am the flexpipe is 1 inch and fits on the attachments that fit in the bulkhead, those are .75 are you saying?

 

I wouldnt even know how to begin making larger drains in the external overflow. 

[Bevo5]

Ok - got it. So if you have 1in drains. That's a lot better than .75in drains - small difference that makes a big difference in the amount of water flow. I wouldn't try to redrill those holes....and they're probably not spaced out in a way to make that possible anyway.

 

I'm still not knowledgeable enough to tell you which system to run but it seems like you were set up for a Bean Animal with the three holes in the overflow. A herbie system is just two - one main drain and one emergency. 

 

***People really need to check this idea and chime in before you do it - BUT....here's what I would do:

 

-Two full siphon tubes placed in overflow about 6 below water line. [Cap each with a tall strainer, not a flat one)

-Each should lead to a union and then to a high-quality gate valve (Spears, Cpex). At least one should have the valve.....I guess both?

-Then these lead to your filter socks.

-The third overflow hole should be right up at the water level and then be as straight a shot as possible to your sump. It doesn't have to go to a sock as this should only get water it in in an emergency. No valve etc. Just hope this one never sees water.

 

The returns are a bit trickier since they are 1.5in each...which is weird to me. But anyway - run a 1.5in line out of your return pump. Have it go to a gate valve if you want so you can turn off the backflow if needed. Then get a Y connector that splits the return into two. From there it's a straight shot to each of your return holes. 

 

Depending on where your returns are you might consider putting a valve on the line closest to the pump. That way you can trim off some of the flow from that return so the other gets equal amounts of water.