steveweast Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 As someone who buys corals online frequently, I have a few thoughts.... 1) the shipping cost is ALWAYS a buyers' sunk cost regardless of any dispute. It's the nature of this business. 2) A buyer has no right to apply his own live arrival guarantee. 3) Any dispute should have been documented and photographed.....then posted on the RC feedback forum. 4) If I were the buyer, I would have probably just posted my dissatisfaction and left it at that.....which is exactly what I did on an outstanding $500 soli a few years ago that was a DOA. It's just not worth getting into a pissing match over. My satisfaction came in forever trashing that seller and never buying from him again. I guarantee that I may have lost some cash....but, he lost more in the long run in lost business alone. 5) In the absence of a live arrival guarantee, the risk on shipping corals rests solely with the buyer. A seller has no control of acclimation, when the package is picked up, or water quality. Any DOA should be photographically documented immediately.....it's only fair to do so. In addition....the whole creating a new screen name and "I'm new here" stuff....in of itself doesn't have any bearing on the case; but, it sure looks bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael7979 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 So now that both sides have posted what they have to say. Take that information and form your own opinion. It's time to move on .........................all of us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefhut Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 B.S. Brandon I don't know all the details, but it alway's buyer beware. First off if you bought a coral pack and the seller didn't offer an "arrive alive guarentee"...You should not charge back your card. Everyone that buy's Via internet know's that shipping this time of year is risky (Heat, Thunderstorms, ect...) i think you should reconcider opening comuncation with the seller and do the right thing to resolve this matter. I know one other person that bought used equipment from you and it did not work, they tried to contact you about the issue and you indicated they were out of luck.... To bad they paid cash or I'd recommend they back charge there credit card. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R-3 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 So now that both sides have posted what they have to say. Take that information and form your own opinion. It's time to move on .........................all of us! I think this is something we need to discuss, in no way does it need to move on. Especially since one of the people it is about was a major proponet for the buyer/seller/vendor feedback forum. No picking sides but I just like to hear both sides. I do though agree with everyone that made a point about shipping. That is always the buyers $$$. Its just a known fact unless there is a arrive alive guarantee like liveaquaria.com. So good luck to everyone involved in sorting this out. Later Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 I think this is something we need to discuss' date=' in no way does it need to move on. Especially since one of the people it is about was a major proponet for the buyer/seller/vendor feedback forum. No picking sides but I just like to hear both sides. [/quote'] Wholeheartedly agree on this point. It is not something that should be swept under the rug and ignored, especially because RG is a pervasive force on the trading forums. I know a lot of forums on the net who take registering multiple account as a serious offense, usually involving permanent bans on your IP. So to try to "pull the wool over peoples eye" by claiming a new member when in fact what is happening is that you're trying to distance yourself from an old user name really rates as sketchy behavior with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael7979 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 What I was trying to get across was ............. Since both sides have stated their cases why can't each individual make up their own mind if they would like to continue to do business with this person or persons. To be boldly honest I have never liked Reefgeek84 we have crossed paths several times and we will never see eye to eye. I think he needs to try and make some form of amendment with the seller on this situation. I have also seen posts of people having great luck on dealing with him. I have talked to people in person that have said he treated them very poorly and they felt they were taking advantage of. BUT if you still need to bang on this ordeal please go right ahead. My mind has been made up about whether I'll deal with this individual. And it's not based on personal opinion. So its time to move on. I hate to see this become 'the big thing' on this site when I think we can help each other out. AND yes this is being talked about among the officers/BOD about what to do with this situation. This is my thoughts on this and I'll move on. I have nothing more to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piero Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 At the risk of repeating others: We all know the special risks with reef shipping and must do our due diligence with every transaction. We must document with pictures, we must contact people immediately. No excuse for no pictures in this hobby...I wouldn't dream of even ordering anything online if I couldn't take a picture of it immediately if it's DOA. People have pictures to show-off stuff at the drop of a hat, but when it's inconvenient the camera is unavailable? I used to ship boxes daily, and in the few circumstances when there was a loss during shipping, I ate it - no problem. But customers always provided timely, accurate documentation without questions. Most went overboard in their documentation efforts. Some even insisted on sending me the skeletons on their dime. I never had an unresolvable issue, but if this particular situation had happened to me as the seller, I'd probably feel duped, and would likely not take that customer's business again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowman Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 What gets my proverbial goat on this is that in any other thread on here when Brandon has been questioned, he adamantly defends his point to the death. However, in this situation, he makes a vague attempt at defending himself when he is clearly in the wrong. I hope that this is a lesson to everyone. Record your new acquisitions with pictures and log them into a diary, watch them closely, and if something goes wrong, communicate with the shipper. Charging back a credit card like went on here, is very close to theft in my opinion. Brandon, sack up dude and give the guy back at least his shipping. What would you have done if some one did this to you? You would bash him all over the internet. Thanks for listening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 I have nothing to add to what has happened in the past, because I don't really know the facts. I will say, however, that I have had flawless transactions with reefgeek84. Just thought that the positives were worth throwing into this thread. -Sol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveOhh Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I don't doubt that people have had great transactions w/ Brandon. But in this case, as in life, it's in times that things don't go completely as planned that you find a person's true colors. Even if the corals were DOA, charging back a seller's credit card for the entire amount is plain wrong. JMO!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Ahhh so all those good transactions are wiped away with 1 bad one. That reasoning will get you real far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy-S Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Since we keep beating this dead horse i agree with Lowmen statment What would you have done if some one did this to you? You would bash him all over the internet. Just thinking about how fired up he got on reef discussion stuff i could just imagine what he would of done if someone took back there money from him. And yes Ahhh so all those good transactions are wiped away with 1 bad one. It does... If you don't make it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 I don't doubt that people have had great transactions w/ Brandon. But in this case' date=' as in life, it's in times that things don't go completely as planned that you find a person's true colors. Even if the corals were DOA, charging back a seller's credit card for the entire amount is plain wrong. JMO!![/quote'] So you came to this site, joined it, just so you could bash someone, who you have never met, and never had any dealings with, for how a business deal went with someone else, which did not involve you, and you are here questioning ethics? That says everything about you, that I need to know. How would you like it if I posted on the 8 boards I am a member of, including those I moderate, about the actions of Fantasycoral.com and the ongoing efforts to disturb local reefing comunities. Bad form. I was about to buy a UV from reefgeek but when I saw that thread on RC I had my reservations. I am glad that it was brought to my attention. Brandon has an excellent reputation on this site. Letting the comments of one person disuade your preception of a member fo this board with such a long standing positive reputation is short sided IMO. I'm sure you'd love the UV from Brandon, and would enjoy a positive experience as so many others have. As many others have said, there is not a track record of negative experiences here involving Brandon, but just the opposite. I think this is something we need to discuss, in no way does it need to move on. Especially since one of the people it is about was a major proponet for the buyer/seller/vendor feedback forum. No picking sides but I just like to hear both sides. I do though agree with everyone that made a point about shipping. That is always the buyers $$$. Its just a known fact unless there is a arrive alive guarantee like liveaquaria.com. So good luck to everyone involved in sorting this out. Later Ryan I respectfully disagree. What happenend did not happen here. The person that brought it to this board was not even involved in the transaction. That says a lot in and of itself. Holding members accountable to what happens here is very important IMO, but that is not what is going on in this situation. How can we pass judgement wothout knowing all of the details of the situation. It is not our place, nor is it our place to know all the details IMHO. What happenend is between Brandon and the seller, end of story, the rest is just drama. This site is about reefing, not drama. Personally I have done complete charge backs twice. I have also shipped a few hundred boxes out to people all over the country, I have been charged back on myself, three times the situation was out of my control, so I ate it and replaced at my cost. It is the sellers responsiblity to make sure things are properly shipped, not the buyers. The first charge back I made was on a coral order where the corals came with the bags empty of water. I did not feel like I should be held accountable for the shippers neglegence to seal the bags. The second was from a large scale faciltiy. I ordered in January expecting delivery in 2 days. They contacted me a moth later after 15 3mails or so on my part, to put me on a waiting list. 6 months later I came home from vacation with over a $1000 of dead livestock sitting on my door step. No notification from the shipper they were sending my order 6 months later. I would do both again. IMO on both sides of the fence saying the buyer is responsible for shipping is short sited. Both sides carry a responsibility to the purchase. All specualtion to the actions and events that transpires is just that specualtion. It's time to leave the drama and other people's and sites business behind us and get back to what this site is about reefing. JMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrylics Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 FWIW, this forum is for personal experiences with members/vendors, only. To quote the forum rules "Please relay your experiences with any fish store (or member, my addition), good or bad, in this forum." This means not stories you read about on the net (or any other publication) and not stories you overheard somewhere but rather your own "personal experiences". I'm somewhat amazed that this is a topic for the BOD as it doesn't concern the club in any way. I'm also amazed that a mod didn't pick up on the fact that this thread did not involve a "personal experience" to begin with and close it earlier. As many of you know, I'm usually in favor of letting the crap fly to air it out but this thread did not follow forum rules from the beginning so should not have been allowed to go on. Sorry to all those that have involved themselves with this thread but it simply doesn't belong here. The wording "your experiences" was placed to avoid this kind of hearsay and chatter IMO. Mods & officers: If I'm mistaken on this, please let me know. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Moderator2 Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 The thread is being discussed in the moderators forum. A vote has been called to close this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
180Bob Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 FWIW' date=' this forum is for personal experiences with members/vendors, only. To quote the forum rules "Please relay your experiences with any fish store (or member, [i']my addition[/i]), good or bad, in this forum." This means not stories you read about on the net (or any other publication) and not stories you overheard somewhere but rather your own "personal experiences". I'm somewhat amazed that this is a topic for the BOD as it doesn't concern the club in any way. I'm also amazed that a mod didn't pick up on the fact that this thread did not involve a "personal experience" to begin with and close it earlier. As many of you know, I'm usually in favor of letting the crap fly to air it out but this thread did not follow forum rules from the beginning so should not have been allowed to go on. Sorry to all those that have involved themselves with this thread but it simply doesn't belong here. The wording "your experiences" was placed to avoid this kind of hearsay and chatter IMO. Mods & officers: If I'm mistaken on this, please let me know. James I agree with your thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveOhh Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 So you came to this site, joined it, just so you could bash someone, who you have never met, and never had any dealings with, for how a business deal went with someone else, which did not involve you, and you are here questioning ethics? That says everything about you, that I need to know. How would you like it if I posted on the 8 boards I am a member of, including those I moderate, about the actions of Fantasycoral.com and the ongoing efforts to disturb local reefing comunities. Bad form. I challenge you to find a post ANYWHERE to find someone I screwed. The fact that he was banned from RC, rejoined under a different user name & was again banned speaks wonders. And when he did rejoing, he made no attempt to clear his name. From what I've read here, when Brandon is wronged he makes sure he lets everyone know he was wronged. The mere fact that he has only defended himself once on this post speaks for itself. I'm not disturbing your community.............I'm simply stating my opinion. But then again you probably believe, as most power hungry mods do, that only your opinion counts.......(nono) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defigart Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I'm not disturbing your community.............I'm simply stating my opinion. But then again you probably believe' date=' as most power hungry mods do, that only your opinion counts.......(nono)[/quote'] You are however violating the rules of this forum. (enforcer) As previously stated above.(wife) I am not a mod, and I don't want your opinion either.(naughty) D PS Can we P L E A S E close this discussion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Moderator3 Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 enoughs enough................. closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefboy Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 not sure but ive got a deal going with him right now and a few of the frags died and he got with me right away and were resolving it no prob infact he's ben very patient with me so im gessing this other person isnt telling whole truths and sad thing is how people who arnt speaking face to face with a person like to jump on the smack wagon anyways your reps good with me:D P.S glad this wasnt closed reefgeek may speak his mind from time to time but that dosnt make him a bad guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy-S Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 not sure but ive got a deal going with him right now and a few of the frags died and he got with me right away and were resolving it no prob infact he's ben very patient with me so im gessing this other person isnt telling whole truths and sad thing is how people who arnt speaking face to face with a person like to jump on the smack wagon anyways your reps good with me:D P.S glad this wasnt closed reefgeek may speak his mind from time to time but that dosnt make him a bad guy. Or maybe he just learned his lesson. He does seem to have a hard time with getting frags not to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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