Kasasah Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 So, i'm redoing my tank and i'm going to add a 55 gallon refuge, and 55 gallon cryptic Tank. Any advice on the cryptic Tank that isn't obvious? Anyone have one? Sent from Samsung Galaxy SII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stylaster Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I know Steve Tyree was doing this, basically its a sump or attached tank with live rock and sand in it that is kept in the dark. You will get sponges, feather dusters, tunicates, etc that will grow in it. Personally not worth the effort imo, you get the same thing happening under your rocks in the main tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I use a refugium, basically to grow pods, but also for nutrient removal. The extra water volume of the crypic tank can't hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyK Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I ran a cryptic fuge about 4 or 5 years ago on my system. If you have space extra filtration more diversity cant hurt. Th problem I had was that it was hard to keep clean. I should have utilized egg crate to keep the rock off of bottom. Then I could have easily siphoned under the rubble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Curious as the the reasoning behind going cryptic. Have you looked into sources for the starter kits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasasah Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 I'm interested in the cryptic because when I first started the hobby I had a rock sitting in a bucket of saltwater for two months. No light, no flow, nothing. When I opened it up it was covered in a white sponge. So this is how I look at it. Grass needs light and water to grow. Algae need light and water to grow and consumes nitrates and phosphates to help it. These organisms living in complete dark are taking stuff from the water column to grow. No need for light. The benthic zone of a reef is larger then the surface reef. That's how it keeps up and keeps it clean. I'm no college grad and I don't have a degree so call me an idiot if I sound like one Sent from Samsung Galaxy SII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasasah Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 And I haven't looked into a starter kit. If a live rock can grow sponge in a bucket with no help, I don't think ill need a starter kit. Sent from Samsung Galaxy SII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwenReefin Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Doesn't sound stupid, nor is it. I'm sure you have read a lot about it to see others mistakes so you don't make them, will be excited to see the results. Photos? with no flash of course... LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arminius Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 +1 on elevating the rock on eggcrate to siphon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasasah Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 +1 on elevating the rock on eggcrate to siphon I'm actually not going to be siphoning it. I'm using sugar fine sand for the beneficial bacteria. Dsb. My whole system will consist of 135 display overflow to 55 cryptic zone Tank, overflow to 55 gallon Refugium, overflow to 29 gallon sump, then reeflo snapper back to the display. Sent from Samsung Galaxy SII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arminius Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Filter = 4 gallons more than display, without calculating displacement...nice! Are you planning on going to a bigger tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasasah Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 A ways down the road. Sent from Samsung Galaxy SII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold B Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 They are used alot in non-photosynthetic / azooxanthellate tanks. You might wanna check in posts/threads/forums dedicated to those type of tanks. The Reef Farmers site (Tyree) definately has a large write-up about them. In the REEF HOBBYIST MAGAZINE that had the PNWMAS article in it about the "clownhouse" there is an article on non-photosynthetic corals/tanks which has a nice pic of a smaller one. He talks in the article about "inoculating the refugium with some sponge rocks" and how they quickly grew to fill his 'fuge, also developed a large population of pods in it. He says "A cryptic refugium helps filter the large amount of particulate food present in my azooxanthellate system". Just tryin to help. I personally have thought about having a small 10g/20g one just for something new to try, but I have several types/colors of sponge growing all throughout my tank. Basically any overhang or shaded/dark area has one type or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasasah Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 Thanks Harold, I read that if the volume of cryptic zone isn't as large if not larger than the display then its not as effective. That's why i'm doing Refugium and cryptic Sent from Samsung Galaxy SII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I have a 125g mixed reef that is attached to a 35g refugium and a 65g cryptic tank. Both feed into a 75g sump(which actually holds about 30g of water). It has been the same for about a year now. I did not seed my cryptic tank. I see very little sponge growth at all, even though my reef display has a very good amount of sponge growth in it. I have stuck a non photosythetic gorg in my cryptic tank but other then that there is no sign of life in there. My refugium is over flowing with pods and worms. My reef is doing great 0 complaints. But other then the filtration from the 100 lbs of liverock I am not sure the cryptic tank is worth the electricity it uses. My plan now is to replace the floor in that room, and take the cryptic tank off line, instead hooking up a 90g which will be a display refugium of sorts. No fish, but some nice algaes and some type of shrimps that will breed for me. JME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I have a 125g mixed reef that is attached to a 35g refugium and a 65g cryptic tank. Both feed into a 75g sump(which actually holds about 30g of water). It has been the same for about a year now. I did not seed my cryptic tank. I see very little sponge growth at all, even though my reef display has a very good amount of sponge growth in it. I have stuck a non photosythetic gorg in my cryptic tank but other then that there is no sign of life in there. My refugium is over flowing with pods and worms. My reef is doing great 0 complaints. But other then the filtration from the 100 lbs of liverock I am not sure the cryptic tank is worth the electricity it uses. My plan now is to replace the floor in that room, and take the cryptic tank off line, instead hooking up a 90g which will be a display refugium of sorts. No fish, but some nice algaes and some type of shrimps that will breed for me. JME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold B Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Interesting. You would think that the sponge growth would've transfered from display to a zone with a more optimal environment. Maybe cryptic sponges are different than the ones we all seem to get in our displays. On ReefFarmers web site Steve sells frags of sponges for starting cryptic zones and I have at least two of the kinds he sells, or at least they look the same (a Blue one and Yellow one) so I don't know. However I have A TON more white "fuzzy" and "long tube like" ones in my tank. With a zone thats SO "established" I guess is the word, it'd be cool to a least try to seed it with one or two porpouse made sponge rock "frags" before giving up on it. But it sounds like you've waited a fair amount of time for it to become benificial. Not that it hasn't been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trautman Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 An important thing to keep in mind is where non photosynthetic organisms get their nutrients. Simply put, if an organism in your aquarium isn't getting nutrients from dinoflagellates (the term which is now being used to describe what we all call "zooxanthellae") then they are getting nutrients from the water column. So even if there is a spot without light, it won't be a very hospitable place for NPS life without nutrients and flow. Make sure the cryptic tank has plenty of flow and that you have enough nutrients (what we call waste) to support life in the cryptic zone. Theoretically, if there is enough flow and all of the right factors for your cryptic tank... and there STILL isn't any visible growth (assuming you know it has been seeded with the proper biodiversity) then that is GOOD! Because that means your system doesn't produce enough waste to support your cryptic zone. On a side(and less important) note, the reason that the scientific field is moving to calling "zooxanthellae" "dinoflagellates" is because the term "zooxanthellae" was coined by scientists when they weren't aware what type of organisms were holding symbiotic relationships in sponges and corals... so they applied the blanket term "zooxanthellae." Now that we have correctly identified the true identity of the symbionts... "zooxanthellae" is just an outdated term. That being said, its popular enough that people know what your saying. So forgive my anal retentiveness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batchelor Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 You might want to pm Douglas "oxx155". I know he added a cryptic fuge to his massive system when he rebuilt it last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burningbaal Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 true for oxx155, looks like an intense setup. I'd recommend if you're putting a sugar DSB in the cryptic tank (not a bad idea, I'm a huge fan of the remote dsb, and it certainly doesn't need the light). make sure there's an easy way to tweak the plumbing on the fly to take that tank out of the system. that way when (not if) you replace the dsb, you can leave the rest of the tank working as standard while you spend a few hours (or days) replacing the sand bed. just my $0.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold B Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 How often does one replace the sand in say a 5g bucket/20g long RDSB? It was my understanding they take time to even get going and last for quite some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burningbaal Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 How often does one replace the sand in say a 5g bucket/20g long RDSB? It was my understanding they take time to even get going and last for quite some time. You're right, I'd expect maybe 2-3yrs and use a pipe or something to leave a small core undisturbed during the change-over if possible Sent using Forum Runner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasasah Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 From my understanding dsb should never be touched or replaced. So that's what i'm doing. Sent from Samsung Galaxy SII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burningbaal Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 From my understanding dsb should never be touched or replaced. So that's what i'm doing. Sent from Samsung Galaxy SII Generally true, but in a non-ocean system, it's partially acting as a nutrient sink (and partially what we actually want it for), so at some point, the sink is full of dishes. if you stir it up as part of the system, you're probably doomed. hence my idea is this post. That, to me, is the perfect implementation of a dsb and would work great in a cryptic filtration setup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold B Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 What if it was a 5g bucket with holes and there was two-3 mangroves growing with roots either 1/2 depth or on the bottom which ever would be optium to the plant? Would that in effect "keep the dishes from piling up to much"? Just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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