J-Dog Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Well guys, I finally got the tank filled and turned on the return pump to test the Bean Animal overflow. I got the initial flushing noise, which quickly cleared up a minute later. The problem I'm having is that my overflow box sounds like a loud waterfall! I don't know if there is a simple fix for this problem or if I need to make a major adjustment somewhere. I was really disappointed since I expected it to be silent, but all I hear is water flowing. Can someone please help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattv Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Got a picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbird Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Is it with fresh or saltwater? I know my 75 was silent when it was a salt tank but as soon as freshwater was in it the sound was much greater. Beyond that I have no clue. Hope some experts chime in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dog Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 Got a picture? Matt, what do u want a picture of? Is it with fresh or saltwater? I know my 75 was silent when it was a salt tank but as soon as freshwater was in it the sound was much greater. Beyond that I have no clue. Hope some experts chime in It's saltwater....but i can't see why there would be different noise levels with either one though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burningbaal Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 how low is the water level in the box compared to the display area? I'd bet a sea-foam paly frag it's just the water falling so far down into the overflow box. next best guess would be where the drain pipes open and the water hits the sump water...full siphon's pipe should terminate underwater in the sump, other two should be just above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbird Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 It's saltwater....but i can't see why there would be different noise levels with either one though. When I asked I was given a very scientific answer that make my head hurt (laugh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burningbaal Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 When I asked I was given a very scientific answer that make my head hurt (laugh) I'm sure this isn't the whole story, but I'll promise that density has some to do with it. SW is significantly more dense than freshwater, this causes it to fall faster, but it also changes the surface tension. go grab an eye dropper type thing and start dripping new salt water (or tank water) a teeny bit at a time onto a smooth flat surface, do the same with new RO/DI water and notice the diameter of the drop will be different for the two (when the volume of the drops are the same). i can't remember if the solutes will cause the drop to be taller or wider (obviously not both), but it will be different. again, there's probably more to it, but the surface tension will definitely change how the water droplets separate and mix as they go over the weir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dog Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 I think I figured out the problem. I need to raise the water level in the overflow box higher, so the water doesn't fall into the box such a long distance. But that also means I need to raise the durso higher on the Bean Animal for it to work properly. I will work on this tomorrow and let u guys know if it works. Thanks for the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbird Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I'm sure this isn't the whole story, but I'll promise that density has some to do with it. SW is significantly more dense than freshwater, this causes it to fall faster, but it also changes the surface tension. go grab an eye dropper type thing and start dripping new salt water (or tank water) a teeny bit at a time onto a smooth flat surface, do the same with new RO/DI water and notice the diameter of the drop will be different for the two (when the volume of the drops are the same). i can't remember if the solutes will cause the drop to be taller or wider (obviously not both), but it will be different. again, there's probably more to it, but the surface tension will definitely change how the water droplets separate and mix as they go over the weir AH HA this makes much more sence. I do belive it had to do with density. I sware I took science and math in school but when I hear a very long scientific explenation I do feel like an idiot :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardedsmurf Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I think I figured out the problem. I need to raise the water level in the overflow box higher' date=' so the water doesn't fall into the box such a long distance. But that also means I need to raise the durso higher on the Bean Animal for it to work properly. I will work on this tomorrow and let u guys know if it works. Thanks for the help[/quote'] Actually, you really only need to raise the partial siphon tube so that it is not pulling (or trying to pull) a full siphon. The full siphon tube that you regulate with the ball (or gate) valve can remain completely submerged down low if you want. Basically, you need to raise the partial flow tube up to where the desired water level in the overflow will be about 1/2 way up the partial drain's turned-down elbow. On mine, it did take me about 1 week to get everything properly tuned and quiet, and I was pulling my hair out initially wondering why this thing was NOT SILENT as-advertised. Now, the silence is very obvious, and when the pumps are turned off and restarted there is maybe 20s of gurgling/siphon/bubble expulsion going on and then silence again. It's really nice. -Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dog Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 Thanks guys, this morning I figured out why it really sounded so loud. Like I said earlier, I had my seconding drain too low, so it needs to come up to bring my water level up. But what was making the noise was my MP40 was too close to the back of my tank, so it was pushing even more water into the teeth, which magnified the waterfall effect. I'm happy this is a simple fix, and will be adjusting and fine tuning things today. More to come on my build thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burningbaal Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 yay! (10 char) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dog Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 Ok guys, I'm having another problem with the overflow. Seems like the secondary drain is making some noise. Sounds like water trickling down the drain and I don't know how to make it quiet. I know it's the secondary drain because I can turn its valve off and the noise stops. Anybody with Bean Animal experience have any ideas on what I can do to solve this problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omarortiz Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Just a few thoughts from what I have read about. I am looking to do a bean animal soon as well. Maybe it will help, maybe not. Here goes... If you throttle your primary a tad more open, then the amount going down your secondary will be minimized. Unless your siphon is maxed out... Does your secondary have the little hose coming out of it or just a hole? If the hole is big enough you will hear the trickle more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burningbaal Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 ditto to everything omarortiz said. I would start by adjusting the ball valve on the full-siphon, leaving the other two completely open (I don't even have valves on them on mine I'm setting up right now). that full-siphon ball valve should be the whole game for silence if you have the airline hose hooked up correctly to the durso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dog Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 I've adjusted the ball valve so that the water line in the overflow is half way up the elbow on my secondary drain. If I adjust it anymore, the water will either completely cover the secondary drain or be too far down and water won't enter it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardedsmurf Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I've adjusted the ball valve so that the water line in the overflow is half way up the elbow on my secondary drain. If I adjust it anymore' date=' the water will either completely cover the secondary drain or be too far down and water won't enter it.[/quote'] You do not and should not be using a ball valve to regulate the secondary pipe - only the main siphon. I would recommend opening up the secondary pipe's valve 100%, then adjust the main siphon's ball valve (Gate valves are better and provide MUCH better control over flow) until the desired water level is reached. You may need to close the main siphon's valve a surprising amount - but that is the ONLY one that should be adjusted at all. By closing the secondary one you are occasionally creating near siphons which lead to the air cavitation noises you hear. -Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burningbaal Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Also, you talk about partially cvrring the second pipe? It should have a downturned elbow just like the siphon but have the airline at the top of the standpipe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dog Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 I never said anything about closing the secondary drain. I only adjust the main drain to bring the water level to the correct spot on the secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardedsmurf Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I never said anything about closing the secondary drain. I only adjust the main drain to bring the water level to the correct spot on the secondary. Oops -- i misread what you wrote This does illustrate what I mentioned above about a gate valve vs ball valve: the ball valve gives very little precision control whereas a gate valve gives a significant difference in flow control. I'm using a gate valve and even 1 turn either way will throw off my balance. On a ball valve that would equate to about a 1mm adjustment that you probably would never hit on purpose. If you can get one and still plumb it in, I would highly recommend a gate valve. Got mine from BRS but a local shop might have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omarortiz Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 It does seem like throttling the valve will help. Some valve info that you may or may not be aware of. If you are using a ball valve, is it a full port? That is, is the hole through the ball as large as a the inner diameter pipe that connects to it? A full port ball valve is a bit easier to throttle, but I am not sure if most hardware stores carry them. A gate valve is easier still and if you can find a PVC globe valve at a reasonable price, that would be easiest to throttle (they are actually designed for throttling as gate valves are not) but they seem to cost a great deal more. That's not to say you can't use a gate valve for the purpose. The lack of corrosion issues in PVC make them fine alternatives to globe valves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burningbaal Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I'm all for gate valves, but I'll say that my HD doesn't have any in PVC, I'll prob end up buying one at some point when I'm shipping stuff, but I can't bring myself to pay shipping just for a gate valve (or globe valve). you should be able to get pretty close with just the ball valve and dead-on with a gate or globe. what about the airline/downturned elbow on the durso? that's a key element in the bean animal design... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dog Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 Guys, I think we are getting off subject here. Here is a pic of my setup.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burningbaal Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 That does help, but with the down-turned elbow on the durso, how what you mean that it is half-covering the opening? the opening is horizontal, it's either covered or it's not... Also, this probably isn't worth asking, but you have a hole drilled in the cap on the top of the durso, right? EDIT: one more question: is the ball valve on your durso always open? and a full-diameter valve? and it looks like the cap on the durso is above the height of the overflow box and thus will never (in an emergency) get to pull a siphon...planning on adding airline to that instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omarortiz Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 The picture helps a lot. I can suggest a couple of things that will help tweak your overflow to let the water transition in a smoother manner. Use a larger diameter pipe (1 1/4" or 1 1/2") inside of the overflow. There are adapters that will let you do this easily. Use a sanitary tee instead of a standard tee. The water will follow the interior of the pipe better if you use sanitary fittings. Based on the picture, the ball valve on the secondary does not look like a full port, and it is probably introducing some turbulence in that pipe. Either take it out altogether or replace it with a full port. Stuff airline tubing in the top of the secondary cap hole. Run that airline to the emergency and clip it to to the top of it facing down. This is a safety feature that will create a full siphon on your secondary should the primary fail. The airline also silences and redirects sound projecting from that hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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