wegotjs Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I have decided that nitrates love my tank and through out the year can't get them to what i think is a reasonable level. So does anyone know of a diy nitrate reactor plan . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCR Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Other than a DSB bucket, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biomekanic Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Any way you could do a refugium? My chaeto kept my nitrates nice and low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I think it would be more productive to cook your rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsoz Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 If you go the refugium route, LMK. I can give you some chaeto (just dip it in your ruby reef to make sure you don't get the ick from my tank. Dsoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsoz Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I gave this a little bit of thought in the 10 years that I was not in the hobby. If there is a slow moving flow through a length of PVC pipe (3 or 4 inch diameter) that is filled with sand (even coarse playground sand should work). It would get to the point of being anoxic or anaerobic enough for the denitrifying bacteria to go to town. The only problem would be having a discharge that is low in oxygen. If you have this then flow into a skimmer area, then it will get oxygenated before returning to the main tank. I guess this is the same theory as a DSB in a bucket. Maybe I am just trying to make things more complicated than they need to be. If you want to try this idea, call me up. I would love to experiment with the idea and see how it works. dsoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegotjs Posted April 20, 2007 Author Share Posted April 20, 2007 I would do a refugium but just don't have any area to do one in. That's why the reactor idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsoz Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 could you cut a couple more bulkheads in your sump, then have them go into a bucket of sand and/or crushed coral. A small, weak, PH would provide slow flow that would become anoxic, and dinitrifying bacteria would start turning the nitrate into nitrogen gas. I believe that people used to do this, and they would "feed" the reactor with either sugar, or alcohol (vodka reactor?) as a carbon source. This should be researched more. ps do you still want to get rid of that torch (?) coral? I just got my lights from J&Jr. I have 4 of 6 bulbs up and running. The other 2 will need to wait for payday. Let me know what I can get for you to exchange (I don't want to take it for free, you have already given me enough). Zoas, shrooms, rics. Something reasonable. dsoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegotjs Posted April 20, 2007 Author Share Posted April 20, 2007 I don't have room for a bucket either.get back to me next week on the frogspawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbrownies Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 what you do is get a cylinder to use, one that wont let light in and with a cap... glue some airline tubing in a tight coil covering the insidewalls of this, and fill the center with bio balls and cap it, the water should flow in through the top, through the bio balls, then into the coil at the bottom, and the coil should have a valve on the output to slow the drip to about 1 drop/second, let that drip into a skimmer or an area with alot of flow and gas exchange, like into the overflow drain or the chamber the overflow dumbs into your sump in. make sure it is air tight though, you don't want air getting in there of course, and when its first set up it helps to add a teaspoon of sugar to the tank, and watch for sulfury smells and if you do have any then increase the flow a tiny bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbrownies Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I think I have a few lime canisters that would be good for this project on a small tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 I gave this a little bit of thought in the 10 years that I was not in the hobby. If there is a slow moving flow through a length of PVC pipe (3 or 4 inch diameter) that is filled with sand (even coarse playground sand should work). It would get to the point of being anoxic or anaerobic enough for the denitrifying bacteria to go to town. The only problem would be having a discharge that is low in oxygen. If you have this then flow into a skimmer area, then it will get oxygenated before returning to the main tank. I guess this is the same theory as a DSB in a bucket. Maybe I am just trying to make things more complicated than they need to be. If you want to try this idea, call me up. I would love to experiment with the idea and see how it works. dsoz this sounds interesting, im starting a coldwater tank and from what ive read the nitrates are a problem because the socaled live rock is so dense that it realy has no anerobic /denitrification bacteria so to speak and hobbiests are forced to eather do frequant large waterchanges or get a sulfer reactor so this post is quite interesting. Ive got a 5 gal bucket of pea gravel sized crushed coral and so what your suggesting is to get some like 4in pvc ( what i was thinking was to make a long U shape ) run a powerhead into one end then a ballvalve at the other to slow the water and let the crushed coral do its job, what is the alcohol for ? wont the bacteria live off the nitrates or is it just to get the thing started? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsoz Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 This is the simple version. If you want a more complex version, I can loan you my old molecular and cellular biology book. Then again. This is good enough. The sugar/alcohol is a carbon source. The denitrifying bacteria need two things. One is the nitrate. NO3. The O part of NO3 means three oxygens (please forgive me if you already know this, but I am a chemistry teacher.) The bacteria get their oxygen from the nitrate, it is not food. They also need FOOD. This is where the sugar/alcohol comes into play. The bacteria will eat the food, then use the oxygen from the nitrate, and do cell respiration. Happy, growing, bacteria. Happy reefer with reduced nitrates. I believe that after a while, the dissolved organics (mainly protein) in the water may be used as a food source. I think this is bad because protein contains sulfur, which is where the hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg smell- very poisonous) comes from. This can wipe out the tank. Your U shaped tube may be a good idea. The water would need to be pre-filtered to remove large debris that would clog it. I was thinking a very weak powerhead, and make the tube zig-zag back and forth a couple of times (water moving horizontally or up, not down, so gravity does not speed it up) before it returns to the sump to be processed by protein skimmers, etc. I know a little on the theory end, and I remember reading about these things 12 years ago. But I am not an expert. More research would be needed before jumping into building one of these things. I'm interested in helping whoever wants to take this jump (reef165). Once summer hits, I'll have a lot of spare time on my hands to help. dsoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Ok so first, would you then need to give the tank a shot of everclear every week or so?( one for the homies) and, are there any hard and fast rules on the size and length in relation to tank size? since im doing coldwater i dont want the extra heat loss so was thinking ive got a refegium sump with a 17 in. X 15 in area that i thought i could circle a 3 in pvc starting at the bot. and circling up, water coming in at the bottom and working its way up through the pvc to the top and having one of those 1/4 inch vinal ballvalves to adjust the flow, and us a maxijet 400 for the incoming water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H20cooled Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 I'm using one on my tank that i made, its a sulphur de-nitrate reactor like the commercial companies are making. Its very similar to the H&S big one. Is made from 6" diameter cast acrylic tubing and water is re-circulated through it with an Eheim pump, it has around 8" of sulphur pellets in it and 2" of CA reactor media. I've been using it for over 6 months now with no problems. Unfortantly I don't have any pics of it and its in the back of my sump to I cannot take any now, but its very similar in design and setup this H&S one. You can order the Sulpher pellets from here and the uniseals also. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 very cool, this may be easyer than guessing how big to make the tube and i can just drop it into my sump. so its basicaly like a cal. reactor but no inlet tube for co2? do you drip it the same? what size tube is the one you are using? ive got a cal reactor im not gona be using anymore so maybe i can convert it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H20cooled Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Yes its basicaly a CA reactor without the CO2, as for the drip rate you want to start out slow for the first month or so to let the bacteria take hold and then increase the rate to match the needed nitrate reduction. My tube is 6" diameter because thats what I have in stock, but 4" would probably be plenty. Mines a little overkill. What you want is something that continually forces the water through the media, then you need a way to drip the water out. If you look at the H&S one, there is an inlet on the bottom of the reactor that pulls sump water in and then into the pump, the water is then forced through the media and recirculated back through the media. Thats it. As for how to mod yours, its hard to say without see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 my cal. reactor is a DYI 3 stage made of 3 inch tube so i should be able to just remove 2 of the tubes and then blockoff the co2 inlet and be off and running. whats the reason for the 2 inches of reactor media? is that what uses up the oxygen from the water? is the pump pushing water through the reactor media first or the sulfer ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H20cooled Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 The sulfur creates acidic water which then breaks down some of the CA media and helps maintain your CA, Alk, MAG. So it goes sulfur pellets then CA media then out or re-circ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCR Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Following along..... So if your "dripping "it back in. How are you covering that much water? I understnd the RC part. Longer contact. How well would this work on a 210? Are you also using it as a CA reactor, from the acid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H20cooled Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 It works really well in my 140G tank, and I don't see why it would not work in a bigger tank. You can turn it up once it gets the bacteria growing good (2 months). No I have a CA, Kalk, and de-nitrate reactor, but I built them all myself for a LOT less then the retail cost would have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 ok, i did it i made my sulfer reactor. Pics to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 hold on im trying! and ive got it!! conv_1154.bmp conv_1155.bmp conv_1156.bmp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 how do i make the pics bigger? it allways makes me make them so small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegotjs Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 Anybody interested in building me one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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