andy Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 I decided to pull the grape caulerpa from my 'fuge last night, it was overgrown and the mention that it is mildly toxic (in Borneman's article) was enough to get me wanting it gone. I was planning on replacing it with chaeto, but having seen how filthy the water became while I was pulling the caulerpa I'm not so sure I want to anymore -- there was a *lot* of crap just rotting away in there. I ended up pumping out the filthy water and replacing it with fresh saltwater. Right now, it looks to me like macroalgae refugiums are just another filter sock... a place for detritus to collect and produce NH3/NO3/NO2. Worse than a filter sock actually, since you can't just swap it out easily. I'm tempted to just put some live rock rubble in one corner of the 'fuge (for 'pods), remove my CF lamp, forget macro entirely and just run Phosban. Am I missing something here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly guy Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Nope, not missing a thing IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 this is why I would not run a fuge....With everything else in the hobby, I do not think fuge's are needed, but that all depends on who you ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael7979 Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 The fuge will help stabalize the PH at night, if you have the light on 24/7 or RDP. Something to think about and consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 I found the same thing with my fuge on my 29gal. Thats why i ditched it. They get filthy, and stinky! I don't need to be cleaning another tank, if i want to do that i'll put up a softy tank or something. The fuge is almost more work than the display! I've seen no benefit to the fuge. You can do the same thing with an intank fuge with much less potential problems. You can add small piles of LR rubble throughout your display for pods to reproduce in, pod piles Growing cheato did not help my tank at all either, rather it collected detrius and clogged drains and impellers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowman Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 i light my sump opposite of the display to stabilize ph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Popeil Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 ive always ran an extra large refugium in comparison to my main display. when i had a 55 gallon, i used a 29 refugium. on my 120 gallon, i used a 75 gallon refugium. ive always been a huge fan. i tend to house high bioload animals like large anemones, have highly stocked tanks of fish, and consequently feed a tremendous amount. my algae has always kept nitrates, nitrites and ammonias at zero. even when fish would die, or anemones deteriorate, the algae would take care of the decomposition so i could be lazy and not worry about an immediate water change. i will admit that detritus builds up in areas of lower flow in the refugium, however a flurry of organisms and well established macroalgae seem to handle it and negate its effects. i dont really have anything more than anecdotal experience to show the importance of a refugium, but i do enjoy the extra water provided, the spare tank space for injured or new animals, the amount of life that is allowed to flourish, and the assistance with water quality. i think ill always use one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H20cooled Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 I had a fuge on my last reef with Cheato but removed it when I started using Prodobio products, it was a trap for stuff, but it was also a huge pod growing area. I think with the right setup fuge it can be great but if done wrong with the wrong macro they are bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theron Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 I have never had a fuge. Not sure if I would ever have one, but just wondering, what if the water into the fuge went through a sock. You would have to change out the sock periodically, but might keep the fuge cleaner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share Posted February 17, 2007 My tank drains to the sump through a sock, water is pumped from the return section over into the 'fuge where is flows back through baffles. Still had the nastiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mbeef61 Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 i agree with ron popeil....and besides...people take the purpose of a refugium way too literally....to me its another tank connected to my main tank that just so happens to have the ability to benefit the main tank. there are easy ways to solve this detritus problem....CLEAN IT.... if its a huge problem with trapped detritus then siphon it out where it goes...take the chaeto out and swish it around in a bucket of saltwater...this is also a good way to harvest copepode... with any tank....refugium, sump, main tank...even a phosban reactor is going to harbor excess detritus if its not cleaned...i think the benefits way out weigh the negatives i just think they are being used as another cure all...its not gonna solve any one problem but it helps prevent and take a dent out of many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitterbait Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Nah, it is hard enough to keep a regular display clean and going without having to worry about a low flow crap catch basin... especially when you can solve the whole problem by getting a larger skimmer instead. I have no desire to keep a refugium. they are old school and nowhere near as neat and efficient as a good sized skimmer. keep in mind.... the longer the crap stays in the tank the more phos it produces. even if you have a full tank of macro, it will still die and rot and your phos will increase. the original purpose of a refugium was to remove these pollutants... why wouldn't you go with a more effecient system by using a skimmer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powdertang05 Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 in my opinion i found that the refud masked my PO4 and but did reduce my nitrates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVES Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Nah, it is hard enough to keep a regular display clean and going without having to worry about a low flow crap catch basin... especially when you can solve the whole problem by getting a larger skimmer instead. I have no desire to keep a refugium. they are old school and nowhere near as neat and efficient as a good sized skimmer. keep in mind.... the longer the crap stays in the tank the more phos it produces. even if you have a full tank of macro, it will still die and rot and your phos will increase. the original purpose of a refugium was to remove these pollutants... why wouldn't you go with a more effecient system by using a skimmer? skimmers dont remove nitrates and phosphates, algae does. I agree fuges can be detritous traps, but if you either run it through a sock first, or simply keep it clean IMO they work great. There is a fuge on my front display and the only thing Ive ever done to it is prune the cheato, there is only a fine dusting of detritous on the bottom and its been running for close to a year. It does not even go through a sock first. I think cheato (nothing else in the fuge,,,) is an amazing exporter of nutrients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVES Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Right now, it looks to me like macroalgae refugiums are just another filter sock... a place for detritus to collect and produce NH3/NO3/NO2. If you dont like filter socks,,, how do you plan to remove detritous? If you dont want to trap it,, are you just going to let it blow around in the system and pretend its not there? Sure the skimmer will remove some, but why not let something catch it? The key is removing it and exchanging it with a clean one before thigns have a chance to rot, IMO its the easiest way to remove detritous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share Posted February 17, 2007 I do like filter socks, I have one on my drain now -- I just meant that it is easy to change a filter sock out and a pain to clean out the refugium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mbeef61 Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 you should use both....the algae gets the stuff the skimmer missed....even my oversized octopus ddnw-250 on a 100 gallon isnt enough. if you arent willing to clean every detritus trap, then nothing will stop the pollution. you have to get it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly guy Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 There is no right or wrong answer here.... obviously there are some people who have developed a means of using them to their advantage, others have their systems set up in such a way that they are not necessary and more of a PITA and mess than they are worth. Like everything in this hobby..many ways to a beautiful reef, you just have to find out what works best for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefboy Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 There is no right or wrong answer here.... obviously there are some people who have developed a means of using them to their advantage, others have their systems set up in such a way that they are not necessary and more of a PITA and mess than they are worth. Like everything in this hobby..many ways to a beautiful reef, you just have to find out what works best for you. Well said(clap) everyone has there own way to do a tank and none are wronge if your tanks doing well. I use fuge's i maintain them just like there big bothers above but to me its a component of the balance i try to achieve in my systems i even use caulurpa because ive found no reason not to. Cheato makes a mess plugs stuff up but im sure it is safer but ive never had any prob's with caulurpa ethier and out of the hundred or so species i have id think one would show me that its a prob so do what you think is best I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share Posted February 17, 2007 Maybe I'll give it another try with Chaeto, the pH balancing and phosphate export is a benefit. Thanks for the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 After Eric Borneman's Oxygen presentation this afternoon, I'm definitely going to get some Chaeto in there with an out of phase light cycle. The oxygenation benefits are definitely worth whatever additional maintenance is required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly guy Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 After Eric Borneman's Oxygen presentation this afternoon' date=' I'm definitely going to get some Chaeto in there with an out of phase light cycle. The oxygenation benefits are definitely worth whatever additional maintenance is required.[/quote'] It crossed my mind too....even though i personally really really really really dont like refugiums..... But did you notice that in the wild.........there was the same kind of swing?? Of course.....this is in regard to larger systems........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 Yeah, I noticed (That was me asking about the scale difference between his collected data and the ocean data), but like you said it is tank size dependent. My 60gal is taking quite a hit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 I thought about it too, but IMO while adding a fuge with cheato would help with oxygenation in the tank, the pollution it adds to the system offsets that benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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