JeffP Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Since Doran decided that he'd like to make a pre-emptive strike against others who may post feedback on their experience with The Fish Tank People I decided to lay it all out and let everyone decide for themselves. The following has been my experience with him and unfortunately, it hasn't been the best. Doran picked up the tank from me on January 5th and the plan was for him to sell it for me for a commission. After the tank was in his possession, he listed it for sale on his site as well as advertised it on Craigslist to spur interest. Time passed and I lost my job - and in an effort to speed up the process, Doran suggested a raffle for the tank which I thought was a great idea. Before the raffle started - I had checked with Doran on interest in the tank. I sent him an email on Jan 20th from Jeff Paramchuk to Doran Figart date Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:39 PM subject tank mailed-by gmail.com Hey Doran, Just wanted to see how the tank was doing... any interest? Are you putting it on craigslist or anything? Jeff No response. So I sent him another email on Jan 30 notice, i sent to two email addresses. from Jeff Paramchuk to Doran Figart , Doran Figart date Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 3:29 PM subject tank mailed-by gmail.com Hey Doran, Just wanted to check in on the tank - any movement/interest in it? Are you putting it up on craigslist or anything like that to help spur movement? Jeff He responded to this email. March rolled around and on March 7th Doran and I discussed the tank and decided on the raffle idea. I asked some questions about ensuring the sale of tickets. Hell - I'll just let you read it. Notice it took him over 2 weeks to reply to any of my questions. From: Jeff Paramchuk To: Doran Figart - Hide quoted text - Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 3:19 PM Subject: Re: Turnkey Tank Hey Doran, I know you're busy getting the shop up and running, but can you reply to these questions for me? Jeff On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Jeff Paramchuk wrote: When were you planning on running the raffle? On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Jeff Paramchuk wrote: Hmm, a raffle sounds like it could be a good option. As long as all 50 tickets were gone then I could consider giving that shot - would you ensure that was the case? And would you still be taking 20%? I understand it's likely been slow because of the economy, and I've unfortunately been hit by that too :( Lost my job effective Apr 13 - so any additional cash is good cash for me these days :( On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Doran Figart wrote: Jeff, I was just thinking about this. I do need to put it back on CL. It hasn't been in this past week. Would you be interested in raffling it off? We could sell a limited number of tickets, say 50 for $20 each. Just a thought. On March 30th - I inquired about ticket sales, Doran responded with Doran Figart to Jeff Paramchuk date Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 5:28 PM subject Re: Turnkey Tank Follow up message Going good. Have sold tickets from as far north as Kelso, to as far south as Salem. Can you be present to draw the winning ticket? Doran ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Paramchuk To: Doran Figart - Hide quoted text - Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 2:18 PM Subject: Re: Turnkey Tank How's the raffle going thus far? Based on that, I felt that things were going well and there should be no problem selling tickets. I sent him another email on April 22 inquiring on things as I hadn't heard anything from him. He replied with a PM which said: Jeff, I have your tank. Its safe in the shop. I posted the address in my forum. Under the "Shop Info". Not all the tickets are sold. Only about 10 are sold. Im would consider waiving my fee and sell only 40 tickets, or only take whats sold over 40. But I think tickets will sell after the shop opens. Sorry for taking so long to get ahold of you. Ive put in 12-15 hour days this weekend and today. Yes this delayed getting ahold of me thing has been a pattern, I appoligize. Doran I'm not sure in which world selling 10 tickets out of 50 is "going good" but that's what Doran thought. Throughout this process as evidenced in the FTP forum (which it looks like Doran deleted the thread about the raffle - but fear not, I have a backup of it) various people and members of this forum inquired about the status of the tank - Doran either did not respond in the thread, or not at all. Another email to Doran on Apr 26 asking about the raffle sales, zero response. I sent a followup on May 17. Zero response. On May 18th, I sent the following very frustrated PM due to lack of communication Doran, The lack of communication is extremely frustrating for me. Especially when you're holding on to thousands worth of my material and equipment. I sent you a message when you were online yesterday - and you didn't respond - nor did you respond to emails I sent. I am getting close to wanting to post something publicly about how poor the communication has been with you - but I don't want to because that could hurt your business which I am not wanting to do. I want this raffle business starting to wrap up - if that means you have to buy the tank from me outright before raffling it off, then so be it. You've been evasive with questions, not forthcoming with real information when you've finally given it, and have kept me completely out of the loop - not to mention, when people ask on your sponsor forum - you don't respond. Jeff On May 23rd Doran responded - but only in as far as to say that he didn't get any emails from me - and would answer questions when he saw them. I sent them again immediately - this was the last time I heard from Doran. Each day thereafter, I sent Doran a PM hoping for a response of some sort. Anything really. I called on the telephone to talk to him in person, but he didn't answer. I sent a text message, no response. I then decided that I had had enough and gave Doran the following PM on May 29th at 8:39pm Three days between PMs to you, and no response. Longer even when you said you would answer a question in your only recent reply to me. Doran - I want my money for the tank by June 5. The promised $1000 for the tickets you are selling is what I require. Based on the fact that you haven't done any service for me - and have proven to me you don't reply to messages of any sort I don't feel you earned any of your commission on this transaction. I will take certified check, cash or paypal + fees. Please let me know how you will get my funds to me by June 2. Jeff No response. I went to the store today with the intention of getting my money - because a no comment means that someone agrees with the terms. I went to the store and Doran immediately went on the defensive. Rather than address my concerns about the lack of communication all he said was "I was bad at communication." When I asked further questions for clarification on his communication, he said in a very beligerant manner "I already answered that." I then saw my tank in the shop and wanted to go take a look at it. Much to my surprise the tank had sustained much unintentional damage as a result of the high humidity of his shop. The wood had started to turn black in spots where the varnish was absent (the cracked varnish was a known problem before the tank went with Doran). Other spots of darkened and damaged wood appeared. I then lifted the lid to look at my lighting system - there was so much humidity in the room that the lights, sockets, and equipment under the hood was covered in water droplets. This was witnessed by myself and my future brother in law. Doran then called the police claiming I refused to leave his store - as I was inspecting my goods. I complied and also wanted to speak with the police - so I waited outside for them. Doran then cancelled the police call - and I wanted to get inside to take photos of the tank. I did not attempt to enter the store after leaving it - so I recalled the police and had them come to run things by them. They came, went inside and Doran still refused to grant me access to MY OWN EQUIPMENT to document the damages to it. Thankfully, the police officer took down my email address and will be sending us both photos. I've been very forthcoming about the transaction in this post as you all can see. And to further demonstrate - Please take a look at the following PM i received from Doran. Notice that he's now giving me not only an ultimatum for removing MY equipment that was damaged while in HIS possession, but also implied blackmail if I was to share my experiences with people on this forum. I should note that when I was at his store today, he told us 1 week from Monday, which was also confirmed with me by the police officer - now he's changed that again. Jeff, As per our discussion today you have until close of business (7pm) on Monday, June 8th to get your tank. At that point it will be considered abandoned property. You are not to contact me except for letting me know when you are picking up your tank. Further you should refrain from any defaming or inflamatory comments reguarding this or anyother transaction between us. I will pursue the appropriate measures should any be said, written, or otherwise deseminated. Doran Figart Owner, The Fish Tank People I'll let you all take a look at this and make your own decisions about how things went. Everything I posted in here is fact - including actual emails and PMs between Doran and I. I'll answer any, and all questions you have. But as it sits now, I'm left still unemployed but now with a damaged tank thanks to the owner of The Fish Tank People. I guess I'll find out exactly how much damage has been sustained once I get it back to my home, let the electronics dry out and hopefully fire up without shorting/starting a fire. Thanks for nothing Fish Tank People. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prada Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 WOW...... Sorry to hear about all the trouble you have to go through just to sell a tank. Unbelievable. Good luck on everything man. Brandon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowpunk Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 yea I'm with Brandon, sorry to hear about the troubles, good luck with whatever happens. That tank was really nice when I was over at your place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downhill_biker Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Well Jeff, sounds like you did everything right. If he wants to run a business, he needs to run the business, which means returning emails and phone calls. I hope this goes better, this is just bad business. This is a feedback forum, pretty sure you are allowed to give feedback, positive or negative. And as long as nothing is a lie, you did not slander, and therefor no wrong doing there, he would have a tough time proving otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racefan Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Now the question is when is Doran going to get refunds back to people who bought tickets? Jeff, possibly another store would be willing to take on the raffle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 Now the question is when is Doran going to get refunds back to people who bought tickets? Jeff' date=' possibly another store would be willing to take on the raffle?[/quote'] Yes, he is offering them their money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racefan Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Unfortunately I read this thread before I read his regarding refunds(booboo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tertansin2 Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 If you don't mind me asking what were you try to sell? Right now to sell anything is really hard. The Fish Tank People should of been honest and communicated better with you. But I honestly think to sell anything in our hobby for $1000 and up is impossible. I've been selling thing on Craigs list and pnwmas and only been able to get 30% to 50% of original price. I feel sorry for both parties. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 From what I am gathering he is trying to sell the 55 that was being raffled. I am sorry to read about this. I hope this gets squared away. What kind of work were you doing Jeff? I MIGHT be able to provide you some assistance. No promises but I could try. We are hiring right now for several positions. I have posted them here with very little response which blew me away based on the economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 no on vacation in So Cal. So still not home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowman Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Eric, pm me about the job openings dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 PM incoming Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertareef Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Hey Jeff, I am very sorry to hear things did not work out for you on this deal. As you may remember, I picked up a couple tickets hoping to help out a fellow reefer and get a shot at a nice setup to boot... This had the potential to really be a win for everyone and it's a shame to hear that it all fell apart. I hope things start looking up for you soon! Take care and best of luck. Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 Yeah, thanks to everyone who did buy tickets. In talking to Doran yesterday I feel he has a fair solution for all of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewie Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I don't get it. Why not just give back the $200 to the people who bought tickets. Then either give you back your equipment, or cash. Pretty simple if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Snorkelwasp Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 jeff....i am sorry for you...crap like this has happened to me before...it sucks...so you know i will never EVER shop from his store....emails dont lie...callin the police?! wow...loser....in this economy with that service...he will end soon...just a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I don't get it. Why not just give back the $200 to the people who bought tickets. Then either give you back your equipment, or cash. Pretty simple if you ask me. I don't get it either. As I can see it this is exactly what is occurring except that Doran is going out of his way to offer more than just the return of the money which is something I doubt I would do. If I was unhappy with how fast it was being sold I would have told him I was coming to pick up the equipment rather than try to demand the money for it. (Which I believe is where this deal fell apart since it put Doran on the defensive) My experience in dealing with Doran is that while he is not perfect (None of us are) he has always been both fair and honest. He goes out of his way to try to make customers good deals they will be happy with and because of this I plan to continue to do business with him (along with 3 other LFS in the area that also do business in the same manner) and I hope others will as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 My problem all along was the lack of communication - or when communication was made by him it was an attempt at either a) concealing details (see the "it's going good" message) or b) him claiming I didn't send questions, then when I resent them - they were completely dodged. If someone was holding tank of yours and wasn't returning communication of any sort what would you have done? I gave him many, many, many chances to open up discussion about how things were moving - and none of them produced any communication from him. When someone clams up like that - that implies something is wrong which is why I went the demanding route - because that seemed the only way to get a response from him. And now that my tank stand and possibly some of the equipment is ruined, how should that be fixed? I didn't intend on him to damage the thing, and I am sure he didn't either. But again - no effort was made to keep this dry as evidenced by the massive amount of condensation on the bulbs and the black fungus growing in the wood. Nor was any effort made by him to say "Hey Jeff, just wanted to let you know I am storing the tank in a really humid area and some tank damage has occurred." I had to see that in person, and when I asked him about it - he kicked me out of his store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 I don't get it. Why not just give back the $200 to the people who bought tickets. Then either give you back your equipment, or cash. Pretty simple if you ask me. And what of my damaged tank stand and potentially damaged electronics? Should he not be held accountable for the damages sustained while the tank was in his possession? Again, no notice was sent to me that it was getting damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defigart Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Jeff, Also I would like to point out that I did NOT call you out, as you implied in the initial post in this thread. I have sat by and watch you state you version of what happened. However, I feel this needs to be said. You cannot go into any business, act as you, and your crony did, and not be expected to be told to leave. I actually had people tell me yesterday that they are not surprised that I had to call the police on you, and wanted to make sure that I was physically ok. They know you, and know you become aggressive and violent. You were asked to leave because you were becoming aggressive and potentially violent. You refused, so I had to call the police. What was I supposed to do, wait for you to attack me or my daughter? As it was you scared my 20 month old daughter so bad, she has still having troubles sleeping, a couple of days later. You yourself stated that the police officer who responded couldn't see what you were talking about. If you’re so worried about it, why haven't you gotten it yet? You, yourself have stated, and restated, and I'm sure you will state it again, that you’re unemployed. So your schedule can't possibly be an issue. What time tomorrow, Monday, June 7th, will you be picking up your tank? I won't be commenting on this further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Doran, First of all - I have never, ever been known to be a violent person. I would like to know who you've talked to who knows me, since I've been open about everything in this publicly, you also should show the respect that I've given both sides of this situation and tell everyone here who says this. I would hazard a guess that you are pulling this out of thin air to try and slander me. Also, if I was tending toward violent - why did the police officer simply talk to me, then go to talk to you and then come out to me again and talk to me as a normal person? If I was violent or aggressive, do you not think that he would have taken more measures such as detainment? Would a violent or aggressive person actually call the police back - and have them come to the store? I don't think so. Also - claiming your daughter was frightened? How then do you explain the fact that while we were waiting outside the store for the police to show up, your daughter walked up to the glass door on at least two occasions to look at us. As well as wave to us? That doesn't sound like some little girl who was traumatized. I've been very open about this whole transaction and have let people know what has gone on. You on the other hand are still alluding to things that have not happened, going as far as claiming you know people who know me (I know one person in Vancouver) and they also claim I am violent and aggressive. This is not the case, and it's beyond silly. People who know me know that I go out of my way to help people when they need it, and would describe me as anything but aggressive. To address the picking up of the tank issue - as you are well aware I do not have the means to move the tank and that was told to you on Friday when you were yelling at me through your door. I am arranging to get a vehicle to pick up the tank, but just as was told by you to me and through the police officer. I have one week from Monday to pick it up, and I will make it up there when I have the means to pick up the tank. The police officer said to me when he came out side that he didn't know what things were because a very simple reason. He is not involved in the hobby. He doesn't know a ballast from an overflow, a clown fish from a frog fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikep503 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 (popcorn) (scratch) I love a good fight! This is not the first negative thing I have heard about "The fish tank people" but hopefully it will be the last. Anyone who runs a business in this manor does not usually last long. Thanks for the warning! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COReefer Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 should have never said anything. Minding my business now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Time to lock this one down I think. Both sides have had their say, there's only one way for it to go now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COReefer Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Time to lock this one down I think. Both sides have had their say' date=' there's only one way for it to go now...[/quote'] yeah south. I'm so sorry I said anything. None of my business.DOH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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