CA2OR

These wrasse do the same as a 6 line....eat nudi's, flat worms, bristle worms (in my tank anyway), shrimp (again in my tank), and of course food.

I just didn't know where the coral trade comment was coming from....(scratch)

Yeah but some are on here on tapatalk or other methods....and I only took the most informative.

Q: Why do I find hermit crabs outside of their shells? State of Oregon smoking ban requires them to leave the building? (laugh) Q: Can there be a T5 HO lighting system small enough to go into a 17" x 10" space above a hex freshwater tank? A: I don't know....I would assume as I had T5's running over my 12g....but there are LED options. Q: What are the obvious identifiers for SPS vs LPS? I ask because I have an unknown coral that I think is SPS but most that see it either say it's a softie or LPS....it has hard skeleton and polyps similar to a devils hand leather.

This is what Grassi is referring to for those who haven't read the thread but are interested.. from the chemistry side of the equation the addtion of high levels of calcium will not have a noticable effect on calcification. But that only of side of the equation, their is a whole other side that shows its negative effect on the coral. Let me see if I can make it a bit clearer. So first a little picture so everyone can see what we are talking about. The picture is a result of a micro sensor test with in various layers of a corals tissue. It is understood that corals (tissue) can not produce cellular division with the presence of calcium with in their cell structure itself. The coral has created a means by which it actively transports Ca2+ from the seawater to the skeliton. When you compare Ca2+ concentrations in seawater, (on the polyp surface) and inside the coelenteron shows a downward gradient of Ca2+ between seawater and the coelenteron. This concentration gradient drives Ca2+ diffusion from seawater to the coelenteron. Thus active transport of Ca2+ must take place to transport the ion against its concentration gradient to the skeleton. Sooo the way they do it is by the use of Ca-ATPase (an enzyme) which transports the Ca++ to the skeliton site in exchange for H+. So yes they can actually shift the equalibrium towards calcification by removing the protons. So in other words, The enzyme transports Ca2+ to the site of calcification at the same time it removes protons away from it, thereby driving the reaction of calcification towards CaCO3 formation. The aragonite saturation state under the calicoblastic layer increases from ca. 3.2 in dark to ca. 25 in light compared with ca. 4 in seawater. This change in the aragonite saturation state drives calcification at the skeleton. Ok so a couple of things are known. 1. Basic biology, corals can not cellularly divide with the presence of calcium with in their cell structure. (Barnes and Chalker 1990); did a pretty comprehensive study on this and it is concidered the norm. 2. Corals can absorb calcium (yes along with othe elements) through thier cell structure and concentrate it at the skelital area, and yes they can do it with out the calcium levels changing in the surrounding SW. They also drive the formation of CaCO3 by exchanging the Ca2+ for protons which they move away from that area. This process basically changes the saturation state and then precipatates to the skeliton. This process is done by the coral (with no manipulation of the calcium level in the surrounding water) by the creation and use of an enzyme called ATPase. Ok so now to the point I was trying to make, about 3 pages back or so, lol At normal SW conditions that coral must donate a portions of its FINITE energy budget for the processes listed above. The energy budget is limited on the input side (as in 8 hours of light and normal nutrient absorbsion daily) so it takes this energy budget and must divide it amongst the various things it needs to do, among them are growth, conversion of carbohydrates, creation of a organic matrixes, creation of material for slime net capture, defencive tactics and so on and so on. A big list for a small thing. If you create a situation where you elevate the level of calcium in the tank water, you are forcing the coral to create more of the enzyme in order to maintain its normal parameters with in the coral. Since ALOT of energy is needed to create this enzyme and the energy budget is limited in the first place, the only place to get the extra energy required is to STEAL it from one of the other REQUIRED processes. Thus putting the coral into a weakened state. for nothing

More from this thread that I thought would stimulate conversation and thought. If you create a situation where you elevate the level of calcium in the tank water, you are forcing the coral to create more of the enzyme in order to maintain its normal parameters with in the coral. Since ALOT of energy is needed to create this enzyme and the energy budget is limited in the first place, the only place to get the extra energy required is to STEAL it from one of the other REQUIRED processes. Issue #1 At what level does this Energy Budget loss for to much Calcium take place the gives us a unhealthy coral tissue ? We seem to be forgetting something here, that many Acropora coral species that live in the Indian Ocean and Pacific are also found in the Red Sea, where the Ca++ is ~ 460 ppm. So, where should we put that limit, i.e, 475 ppm ? So, is it really to high a Calcium level or is it really to high an Alk that is stressing corals, taxing their EB ? I will add that corals can also control the carbonate/bicarbonate/ CO2 they take in. We do know that tha people have had corals with to thin a coral tissue or low to low skeletal density but we still do not know from what other than it is environmental. Issue # 2 Randy goes into great detail about coral calcification rates and controls. Meaning, the corals more or less have a "control valve" on that "pipe" that only lets in the proper amount of Calcium. Meaning, the coral can control the diffusion rates of the Calcium into the coral form surrounding seawater. Although it is no known who it really works. Second, is the ECF ( Extracytoplasmic Calcifying Fluid), which lies under the Calcioblastic Layer. About nothing is known about this fluid and how it does or does not coral coral growth. Nobody brought up the fact that the energy to deposit Ca comes from light and thus more light is a bigger factor in REAL growth than Ca and that carbonates which do not inhibit reproduction helps in the precipitation of the aragonite from the cells. True for photosynthetic corals but many corals grow more less in the dark or are non-photosynthetic. So, throwing in light has no bearing on ALL hard corals and the Calcium issue of being to high. In conclusion, we know that corals are taxed on their EB but not how or by what. So, the moral of the story is to keep levels at or near NSW ion parameters, at x Salinity and Temperature. Until someday, somebody, finds out what it really is. I will now throw this into the ****-pile Morphological studies of the soft tissues involved in skeletal dissolution in the coral Fungia fungites Yamashiro, H.; Yamazato, K. Coral Reefs, Volume 15, Issue 3, pp.177-180 Light and transmission electron microscopy were used to study mechanisms involved in the separation of the disc from the stalk in juvenile Fungia fungites (Scleractinia, Fungiidae). Separation occurs because the skeleton is weakened by dissolution across a distinct plane at the junction of the stalk and disc. The tissue layer adjacent to the skeleton in the stalk was composed of typical, squamose, calicoblastic cells. In contrast, calicoblastic cells in the region of skeletal dissolution were tall and columnar. They contained many microvilli, abundant mitochondria and several different types of vesicles. It is assumed that these calicoblastic cells are actively involved in skeletal dissolution. Determinate growth and the scaling of photosynthetic energy intake in the solitary coral Fungia concinna (Verrill) Robin Elahib and Peter J. Edmundsa Abstract For many marine invertebrates, the maximum size of an individual is influenced heavily by environmental factors and may be limited by energetic constraints. In this study, an energetic model developed originally for anemones was applied to the free-living scleractinian Fungia concinna (Verrill) from Moorea (French Polynesia) to test the hypothesis that energetic constraints limit the size of this solitary coral. The modified model assumed that photosynthesis was the primary source of metabolic energy, and that metabolic costs were represented by aerobic respiration; these sources and sinks of energy were compared using daily energy budgets that were analyzed using double logarithmic regressions of energy against coral size. With this approach, energy limitation is characterized by a scaling exponent for energetic cost (bcost) that is larger than the scaling exponent for energy intake (bintake). For the size range of F. concinna studied, bintake = 0.73 ± 0.09 and bcost = 0.46 ± 0.10, thereby demonstrating that large individuals accumulated an energetic surplus, even when the expenditure associated with host tissue and symbiont growth was included in the model. The surplus of energy that this coral acquires as it grows appears to be driven by the scaling of traits associated functionally with the scaling of respiration and photosynthesis. Specifically, tissue biomass displayed a strong positive allometry with respect to surface area (i.e., b > 1), and this constraint on surface area may be the mechanistic basis of the low scaling exponent for metabolic cost. In contrast, the capacity for autotrophy – defined indirectly as Symbiodinium population density and chlorophyll content – increased isometrically with surface area, and likely contributed to the higher scaling exponent for intake relative to cost. Our results suggest that growth in F. concinna is not limited strictly by energy, but instead maximum size must be determined by alternative physiological or ecological constraints. Allometry For those that do not know, it is a differential growth rate between x vs. y, i.e, the growth rate of the length of a branch vs the growth rate of the diameter of that branch. Similar to Mojo's but with more detail and not a "Deep Six" article. How Reefs Grow http://www.coralscience.org/main/articles/biochemistry-2/how-reefs-grow

This is completely true...actually right around 15 months to be exact...in my experience

So it appears that any level of calcium detrimentally affects coral growth. I have been reading through this thread and that is what I am coming up with.....what do you guys think? http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f69/calcium-inhibits-coral-growth-59056/

A: I would think this SG: 1.024-1.026 Close to NSW levels. Temp: 78-82 Ammonia: 0 Nitrate: 0 Nitrite: 0 Phosphates: 0? Ca: 400-440ppm Alk: 8-12dkh Mg: should be 3 times your calcium level...1500ppm or so but 1300 is the minimum pH: 8.1-8.3 (keep mine on average at 8.2) Feel free to correct me if I am wrong on any of this Q: Why do I find hermit crabs outside of their shells?

one thing I have to say is I have heard nothing but good about their service. Glad this all worked out for you.

Just remember Miles.....Purell is very bad for tanks. I know this sounds like a no brainer but when the child arrives Purell is going to be your friend to make sure you don't pass any bacteria's or whatever....but it is very bad for your tank.

I know they do at the San Diego State University....just outside of the Marine Biology lab A: yes because it is cheaper Q: how long are you supposed to spin up your saltwater before doing water change?

A: Aquaillumination.....more information found here http://www.3reef.com/forums/3reef-radar/aquailluminations-plasma-aquarium-lamp-65634.html Q: who has good deals on horseshoe crabs?

I have been participating in a thread on another forum that has been proving to be both entertaining and educational....and being that anything that has both of these qualities seem to be a lot of fun here I thought I would start it up here.... Here is how it works as the concept is very simple... All you do is answer the previously asked reef related question and then ask a new one and so on. I'll get things going with the first question which I will come back and answer to give you an idea of how it works (and no I don't like talking to myself, but I'm thankful for the opportunity :p). If it makes things easier to follow along, you can quote the question you are answering first in your response. Q: What is the fastest growing coral?

wow....my wife would love this. I hope you find a good owner. I have a neighbor that collects these. I know he has one or two already....Snowpunk knows this too....I can see if he is interested in another one.

Just remember....when your required 9 month update approaches (worthless)

That is awesome. Is this your first? You are going to love being a father....and I am quite sure after meeting you that you will be a great dad. I am sure you wont utilize this but if you would like any pointers, I am in no way an expert....but I am a father of 2 that are within 15 months of each other so I am experienced. I might have a few tricks for you. But there are quite a few of us parents on here....both new and not so new so you have plenty of options. Congrats man!!!!

Andy....you got rep dude....you always make me laugh.

Interesting

totally agreed.

wow....really picking up on the street slang huh? regarding the dog eating homework.....heck no....I was the guy that did my homework but refused to turn it in. I have no idea why I did that....but I did....and still skipped grades...

I am totally in agreement with you there....(clap) For those who don't know....simply click on User CP and it will show you your rep, comments left, and who left em.

That is the problem right there. P.s.....I have read numerous horror stories in Vegas of people who bought tigers. They sell em out there for like $50000 for a kitten....but they get big...obviously...and pose serious danger when they do. Which is why they require that "mauling" insurance which is something like 200k a year or something.