shaywood Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 My alkalinity dkh has gone from 12 to 19 over the past week. Is this too high? Everything else seems fine (see below). How can I lower the dkh? The only change to my system was changing out the media in my calcium reator last weekend. I went from the crushed ARM to the larger pieces. I read Randy Holms-Farley's article, which really didn't say much about high dkh. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Are you *positive* you are reading that right? 19 is extremely high... What's your current pH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaywood Posted October 19, 2008 Author Share Posted October 19, 2008 I agree it's suspcious. I tested it twice using Elos test kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 That's crazy-high... If all your corals look ok and your pH is normal, I'm thinking something is up with your test kit. Might try taking a sample to LFS and have them double-check it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smann Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 That is very high, thats what should be coming out of your effulent water 20+. If its a true reading check your calcium reactor make sure you didnt bump the c02 or something, I dont think your tank wiil be able to handle it for long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVES Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Shawn, The new Elos kits have a typo. The newer kits are 1 drop per .5dKH. The old kits are 1dKH per drop. The "card" in the front of the kit should reflect the correct ratio. The paperwork inside, is WRONG. Likely your dKH is 9.5 not 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaywood Posted October 19, 2008 Author Share Posted October 19, 2008 Thanks Joel! I see the ratio on the card. Wow. Great news. I think I have used 1/2 bottle re-checking it Thanks for the info. shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgreenthumb Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 FWIW i have tested water of a store to rename unamed with a dkh of 23 so it is possible sps were brown and melting. Tested with salifert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVES Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Shawn FYI.. to REDUCE dKH, dose calcium. Because calcium and ALK have a balanced ratio, by adding calcium it will drive down your alkalinity. Now, it may precipitate if you do it quickly or too much, this would be like snow in the tank. Also, it will take Magnesium and phosphate with it, so after the storm clears, be sure and check magnesium levels. Im only stating the above so that someone looking to reduce alkalinity can get answers. MrGreenThumb,,, Id be curious to test this water with Elos. Salifert Alk kits have been GARBAGE for a while now. If you are able to bring by a sample I would be happy to test it to determine if it was truely that high. It would only be possible to be that high if either the pH or calcium was VERY VERY low. If those are normal, its likely your kit. you might ask what brand salt they are using, this would be helpful for everyone (who may own this salt) if your numbers really are correct. I wouldnt trust them until they were tested with a more accurate kit. for what it worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R-3 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 [language filter] typos! When I first read this I thought to myself 19!!! That would be some bad news with it that high. Did you test pH also? Later Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgreenthumb Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Joel, I would be happy to discuss this in person or pm . I was just merely stating it was possible for the dkh to reach that level as I had seen it with my own eyes...........Salifert alk test kits are now considered garbage?? since when?? Have they always been? do you carry salifert? Are all salifert test kits garbage? Not trying to fight, or be rude or anything just truly curious as to what reason you have to believe salifert alk test kits to be garbage. I paid good money for them so I would hope they would work, and I'm pretty anal about my water quality so if i'm getting false readings it would be nice to know(scratch) . I'm sure you understand my concern(scary). The salifert test I was using has a reference solution with it of 6.6 dkh +/- 0.3, and when I test the reference water I get a 6.5 dkh reading. I guess I don't understand how the reading could be inaccurate especially with the reference solution.(scratch) FWIW the cause was a broken solenoid on a co2 tank for a ca reactor, which was alowing a steady stream of co2 into the reactor...............store owner was happy I brought the dkh to his attention!!!!! Things happen out of our control. Also ph was very very low, as the system had no ph probe......Ca was through the roof. I really don't think it had anything to do with salt. Anyways i'm truly interested as to why salifert alk test kits are garbage as everyone has always told me that salifert is the best, thats why I use them. I would love to do a side be side comparison of salifert and elos, just to see. I just want the best, and most accurate testing kits!!! Don't we all?? Because whats the point of testing your water if your getting a false reading?? Hope you don't take this the wrong way!! I'm just very interested as this is all new information for me concerning salifert!!! Shawn FYI.. to REDUCE dKH, dose calcium. Because calcium and ALK have a balanced ratio, by adding calcium it will drive down your alkalinity. Now, it may precipitate if you do it quickly or too much, this would be like snow in the tank. Also, it will take Magnesium and phosphate with it, so after the storm clears, be sure and check magnesium levels. Im only stating the above so that someone looking to reduce alkalinity can get answers. MrGreenThumb,,, Id be curious to test this water with Elos. Salifert Alk kits have been GARBAGE for a while now. If you are able to bring by a sample I would be happy to test it to determine if it was truely that high. It would only be possible to be that high if either the pH or calcium was VERY VERY low. If those are normal, its likely your kit. you might ask what brand salt they are using, this would be helpful for everyone (who may own this salt) if your numbers really are correct. I wouldnt trust them until they were tested with a more accurate kit. for what it worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaywood Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 Thanks for all the input folks. The problem was that the Elos test kit has a misprint in the instructions. The actual number is half what the test reading showed. No problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Salifert had a bad batch of Alk test kits about a year ago, and iirc didn't handle the situation too well customer service-wise. That, combined with supply problems (apparently, the owner had health issues and that affected the business) dropped Salifert in a lot of peoples' eyes. I was a dedicated Salifert user, but got sick of the crappy large-size flip-top dropper bottle they use in a lot of kits (too hard for me to get consistent drops, and to not drip all over the place) and the 6-month span when no Mg test kits were available. As my Salifert kits run out, I'm switching to Elos; they aren't perfect but I like them better than Salifert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgreenthumb Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Shaywood I appologize for hijacking this thread, not my original intentions!!! Cool good to know thanks a bunch andy!! I will be switching mine out as well! I did find it a little strange that the last 3 alk test kits have been different, I just assumed they were improving. My last one had a reference solution and the ones i've seen lately have none. Strange! I would still be interested to do a side be side comparison of a few different brands of test kits, and then send off the samples to be spectral analyized so we would know the true values as compared to the readings given by test kits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Matt, If you wanna do comparisons with the Elos kits I have Mg, Alk, and Phosphate. I have a Salifert Alk test kit around to but not sure how old it is and I kinda misplaced the directions. I bet I could find a set online somewhere though. I did get a better reading with the Elos phosphate kit myself then with the Salifert. If you provide the salifert kits I'll provide the Elos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 You know maybe we could ask some others what brands they have and do a comparison with a few different ones. We could even do it at the meet and greet Sunday night. Then the staqff would really think the fish table was weird. We would be able to find out what the different kits said, but I don't know if that would necessarily tell us which was more accurate. Just thinking out loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdadof2 Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 I have the salifert Mg test kit that I just purchased from waves...let me know if you want to borrow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgreenthumb Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Kevin lets do dkh and phosphate..... and mag if mark could bring his as well!! ive got dkh and po4 in salifert. then we could take in some to waves and have him test the phosphates with his fancy little machine. will be very interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVES Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Salifert has been a staple in the hobby for years now and has been an excellent choice. However in the last year the alkalinity test kits have continued to get worst and worst. I dont know how old your kit is, but they now send a bottle of fluid with a dKH of 6.X. You can test the kit against this fluid to check the accuracy of the kit. We have had kits as far off as 2dKH. Brand new, just shipped in boxes of kits and they arent even close. To me this is unacceptable. I will likely not be purchasing any more salifert alk kits ever unless I hear they are improving. These problems with the alk kits are the reason I looked into other brands. I tried seachem, that kit is very difficult. I heard about Elos so I looked into it. Elos does a few things that no other test kit companies too. They ship overnight, in a climate controlled environment. Because heat above 80 degrees degrades any test kit reagent, they ship them in from Italy refrigerated. The other thing is once they get here, each batch is tested by a 3rd party lab. The lab tests each batch to insure accuracy. All this, and they are very comparable in price to Salifert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Holy cow. Salifert is so unsure of their own kit's quality that they ship a reference solution to baseline against? That's insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgreenthumb Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 haha thats one way of looking at it....well come to think of it.........why else would they include that......those donkey's!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Nevermind, seemed to be user error. Oops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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