New Member With A Question Or Two

[Gnome]

I've had a 29 gal Bio Cube running for nearly a year now and have decided to convert a 72 gallon bowfront freshwater to a reef tank. I have 70 pounds of live sand and 69 pounds of live rock in the tank now. I cleaned and cured the rock before I put in the sand and the tank is now cycling. I have two Koralia 3 power heads and will be adding a Remora skimmer hopefully Monday when it arrives. Judging from the movement of stuff on the rocks I appear to have good water movement. Lighting is a Coralife 260W PC with 2X65W Actinic and 2X65W 10K. I will be moving most of the stuff from my 29 gal to the 72 when it is cycled. I'll move some rics, a candy cane, various zoanthads, palys, sun polyp, flower pot, and a few red mushrooms and some rock work. If I can catch them I'll move a fire shrimp and a rose banded goby.

 

I don't plan to run a sump or refugeum and will let the live rock, sand, skimmer and CUC to take care of biological duties (if I've read correctly this is called Berlin filtration?). I know I'll be somewhat limited on a bio load due to filtration but I need to know if there is some sort of formula as to how many and what size fish and other creatures I can safely keep. I do have a large cannister filter I could add in but I don't know if it's advisable or necessary. Would appreciate some ideas for a good setup.

[pledosophy]

Size of fish will depend on the swim patterns of that fish. Every speices is different.

 

There is no set forumula on how much any tank can handle that is hobbyist accesible. You can feed the tank with pure ammonia to determine how much the tank can handle and then feed an appropriate amount of food, keeping fish in the system that can survive on that amount of food.

 

IME if it is not to late to return the Remora I would. IME Remora's are below par in the skimming catergory and there are better options for you out there for equal or less money.

 

Cannisters are good IME if you keep them clean. When I ran cannisters I used purigen, carbon, phosban, and chemipure as the media. JME

 

With your listed equipment you could keep a number of things depending on the amount of maintenance you are willing to put in.

 

IMO with a tank that size and with that filtration I would be looking at:

 

a sand sifting goby to help keep the sand clean

an algae eating fish like a lawn mower blenny or a smaller bristle tooth tang

and a wrasse, or a couple of the smaller gobies

 

If you want to do a tank with macro algaes that would be cool to, but would limit you on some fish as they will munch the algaes.

 

Given your listed equipment you are not going to be utilizing all of your liverock. LR is only useful as a means of filtration if flow if going over and around it. Otherwise liverock with water not moving through it can actually be detrimental IME, as it collects and traps detritus.

 

JMO, HTH

[WAVES]

Welcome to the group!

 

I agree with Kevin above, another option is if your really creative and handy Ive seen people make a canister filter into a refugium. The drilled into it and mounted a waterproof light inside the canister. Might be interesting but not my choice if it were my tank.

 

Let us know if we can help.

 

Waves Marine

Joel and Jordan

[kriswaters]

If you are not going with a sump I would definately bump up on your skimmer. As for the rock, the stated opinions are 100% correct. If you don't get alot of flow, you will build up detrutis. I have a closed loop that flows into the rock and still I get build up! I have read alot of posts of people setting up with out sumps but are also very organized with water changes and testing. I personally like the sump to hide the skimmer, heaters, etc.! It leaves the display a little cleaner looking. A canister filter is like a sump...yet closed in and a little harder to clean up!

 

Good luck, and we'll be looking forward to some pictures.

[Gnome]

Thank you all for the info. I'm just not sure I want to mess with a cannister as I feel it could be dangerous if not maintained properly and could easily introduce unwanted chemistry into the tank. I have a 10 gallon tank I could set up as a refugeum if necessary and it will fit in the stand under the 72 gal. Is there some good reading on skimmers that might point me to a better one than the Remora? Or maybe some of you have a recommendation? I'm retired and I have an RO/DI filter setup filling a 32 gallon plastic trash can so I have plenty of time and plenty of water for tank maintenance. I reckon it's going to be a bit of an experiment for awhile till I see how the tank is going to function. I'm sure I'll have more questions and I'll post pictures for sure.

[Gnome]

Here is a picture of the tank as setup now. There are lots of holes and tunnels through the rocks for water flow and so far the water seems to have good movement.

[pledosophy]

The problem with setting up a sump for you at this point is your tank is filled with water, not drilled, and has no overflow box. You could use an external overflow box that hangs on the back of the tank, but I never had a good experience with them myself, although it's been a few years since I have tried one and the designs do seem to be improving. By the time you paid for an external overflow box you could buy one of the larger HOB refugiums and not have to plumb the tank, run a return pump, and chance the a flood.

 

If your retired and have plenty of time for tank maintenance then a cannister filter is going to be easy for you to care for. When your doing your weekly water changes just keep some of the water to swish out the filters in. You will want to clean it weekly, or at least every other week IME. Some cannister filters are designed so you can close the hoses and just remove the top for cleaning, it's not so bad IME.

 

Sorry I don't have much experience with HOB skimmers, only used the AquaC Remora pro myself. Some people love them, I am just not one of those.

 

For future planning it would help to know what direction your looking to go in.

 

HTH

[Gnome]

The problem with setting up a sump for you at this point is your tank is filled with water, not drilled, and has no overflow box. You could use an external overflow box that hangs on the back of the tank, but I never had a good experience with them myself, although it's been a few years since I have tried one and the designs do seem to be improving. By the time you paid for an external overflow box you could buy one of the larger HOB refugiums and not have to plumb the tank, run a return pump, and chance the a flood.

 

If your retired and have plenty of time for tank maintenance then a cannister filter is going to be easy for you to care for. When your doing your weekly water changes just keep some of the water to swish out the filters in. You will want to clean it weekly, or at least every other week IME. Some cannister filters are designed so you can close the hoses and just remove the top for cleaning, it's not so bad IME.

 

Sorry I don't have much experience with HOB skimmers, only used the AquaC Remora pro myself. Some people love them, I am just not one of those.

 

For future planning it would help to know what direction your looking to go in.

 

HTH

 

If I run the cannister should I use some of the ceramic bio media as I did with freshwater or would it be best to just use it as a filter. It's a Cascade 800 so maintenance is not too difficult. I'll keep the HOB refugium in mind if it becomes necessary. My plan is just for a nice reef tank with some fish and a variety of corals . My 29 gal is very colorful with lots of coraline so I'd like my 72 gal to eventually have lots of color also.

[badguitarist]

if it were me I would skip the ceramic bio media as the rock and sand will be doing the same thing. Running carbon and/or a phosphate remover would be the best choice if you decide to use the canister filter. Carbon can really help clean up the water in a mixed reef display where corals are letting out all sorts of toxins.

[pledosophy]

Reef is kind of a broad spectrum. You going for softies, LPS, SPS, some mixed things. What's up? Some things are more forgiving then others.

 

I'd skip the cermaic media myself as well.

[Kevinmc]

Welcome to the club, it's always nice to have new hobbyist and new enthusiast to become involved in such an interesting and educational interest.

 

We are all here to help you and give you advice. Many on here have many years experience while others have been learning with trial and error.

 

Please keep us posted with update, and remember don’t be shy about bragging, and photos are the best form. Good luck and I hope to meet you at our many upcoming club functions.

 

Thanks

 

Kevin

[JManrow]

Here is a picture of the tank as setup now. There are lots of holes and tunnels through the rocks for water flow and so far the water seems to have good movement.

Hey Gnome. Welcome to the Forum!(rock2)

It looks like you are off to a good start! If you would like to receive notices of PNWMAS meetings and events, send me your e-mail address in a PM. You will then be on our PNWMAS Evite list.

[Gnome]

Thanks for the information and welcomes everyone. Tank is coming along nicely, ammonia and nitrites are both at zero and nitrates are somewhere between zero and 5.0 but pretty close to zero. I've got a good diatom bloom going on the rocks and sand. I put in 6 blue legged hermits, 6 nassarius snails and 6 cerith snails plus a small "red" crab. They're doing well and are busy scouring the rocks and going about their cleanup duties. All the other tank parameters are right where they should be and if the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates hold steady tomorrow I slowly begin to add in stuff out of my 29 gal over the next few days. I want to be careful not to upset the tank balance by adding too much to quickly. I hope I'm doing this right.

 

I don't have any specific plans for certain types of corals other than ones that I have adequate lighting for but I'd like to get some really colorful zoanthids going. I have some nice ones in my 29 gal that I will be moving over in time. I just want to make it an interesting display with a variety of life and color. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions as I go along and I'll post pictures of the tanks progress.

[pledosophy]

Try feeding the tank, wait 6 hours or so and then test for ammonia, nitrite, and pH.

 

A tank not having an ammonia reading is different from a tank that is able to support a bioload. You need to spike the ammonia to see.

[pledosophy]

BTW with your lights there are a lot of options for colorful corals in the LPS world. Many of which are on the hardier side.

[biomekanic]

Hi and welcome to the club!

 

As others have said above, lots of options with that tank.

 

One thing to keep in mind with carbon is that it fills up fast, from what I've read it's better to run a smaller amount for a few days and do so on say a bi-weekly or monthly basis than let the carbon sit in the chamber. Think of it as more of a water polisher than a filtration method. Dispose of it after 3 or 5 days, by that point it's pretty much absorbed all it will.

 

For fish, have you considered small "dither" fish, such as blue-green chromis? I'm a fan of larger number of smaller fish vs small number of large fish.

I had good luck with a pair of Orchid Dottybacks - the trick it to get them when they're fairly small and let them figure out who's going to be the dominant one.

 

If you're looking for a Hang on Refugium ( HOT is the acronym you'll see for hang on things ) I have a CPR I'll be putting up for sale soon from my old tank.

(You can see it here: http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~miscellaneous_cpr_aquafuge_refugiums.html)

I need to check the pump on it, as well as the lights. I don't have any chaetomorpha for it unfortunately, but there are plenty of people here who could help you out with that.

 

Water flow is one thing that tends to get underestimated in our tanks, a manifold wouldn't be a bad idea.

I don't mean to sound like a commercial, but I use the Seio controller on my hydor's on my fallow ( no livestock, just LR and sand ) 29g to get some wave action going.

( http://anythingsaltwater.com/seio-electronic-controller-p-1442.html)

They're not manufacturer approved, but they work well, and have for over a year. You can't use a normal wave maker with the Hydor pumps as it will burn out the motor, the Seio works by ramping power down and then back up, but not acting starting/stopping the motor.

 

I'll add my vote to skipping the ceramic.

 

As for the Remora, I'll be dissenting some here. I think it depends on what you're putting into the tank, if there's one thing this hobby is guiltly of, it's "bigger=better" thinking and that's not always the case. If you find that the fish and corals aren't doing well, then look at upgunning the skimmer, but if they're doing well, don't mess with success.

 

If nitrates are an issue, and you have space under the tank, you could do a remote DSB as well. Basically is a drilled 5 gallon bucket with sand in it on a closed loop. The big cost there is the curved bulkheads for the return.

 

One last thing ( well almost one last thing ) remember that your corals will grow and spread, give them room to do and remember that these animals can be combatitive, both chemically and outright physically ( Impur has a post in the LPS section showing sweeper tenticals (which are the corals inverted stomachs ) in action against another coral.

 

The last thing, welcome again to the club! Glad to have you here.

 

Hope to see you at one of the meetings.

[Gnome]

Thanks for the info Biomekanic. At the moment I'm trying to keep the tank as simple as possible and still maintain a healthy environment for the inhabitants. The tank has cycled quickly and ammonia, nitrites and nitrates have been holding steady at zero for several days now. I did feed kind of heavy and checked ammonia later and it didn't spike. All other parameters are right where they should be except calcium which is a bit low at 380. I've now got everything moved from my 29 gal and have a CUC going along with my pair of Picasso Clowns and a Carpenter Wrasse that I just put in today. The rock is stacked so there are a myriad of tunnels and holes for water flow and hiding places. I have diatoms on the sand and a lot of green algae showing up on the glass (especially on the back glass). I may have to cut back on my lighting a bit. I do have some questions though:

 

1. Water flow. As can be seen in the picture I have 2 Koralia #3, one on either end angled towards the back of the tank. A Cascade 800 cannister filter which by itself creates considerable water movement, and a Remora hot skimmer. And for the age old question, how do you tell when you have enough water movement? Does anyone have a link to a video which would show a tank with optimum water movement? I know it must be hard to describe or capture in a still photo.

 

2. How do you know or tell when a Remora skimmer is operating at max efficiency? Mine is still "breaking in" but there seems to be a pretty steady flow of bubbles and it will collect maybe 1/4 to 1/2 inch of gunky, yellow water a day. Should it be collecting more water or less?

 

3. What sort of CUC would be adequate for this size tank (60 gal of water)? I have 10 small blue legged hermits, 11 Cerith snails, 12 Nassarius snails, 1 emerald crab, 1 red crab and 1 cleaner shrimp.