impur Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Dennis (dsoz) was kind enough to meet up with me last friday and gave me a bunch of the potassium permaganate. He measured out 7 individual treatments for me, and gave me enough left over for probably 1000+ more treatments. I'm going to keep 2 for myself and if any of you have nudis (monti-eating, zoa-eating, etc) you want to treat, shoot me a pm and i'll get you some no charge thanks to Dennis!!!!!! The treatment is .05g to 1 liter of water for 15-20min After these measured out treatments are gone i'll have to find someone with a balance that can measure .01g in order to get the concentration right so if you know someone with one let me know!!!! Thanks a bunch Dennis!!!!!! Miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siskiou Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I don't currently have them, but would love to be prepared in case... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 I don't currently have them' date=' but would love to be prepared in case...[/quote'] I know there are ppl down here that have the pests right now (like me!) so i'd like to get them the pre-measured doses first. I am willing to bet Joel (tidalsculpin) has access to a balance. Once i get down there and measure some more out i'll get some to ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siskiou Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Sounds good! How are your corals doing? My best scale only goes to 1g, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 My corals are doing great actually. The montis have browned out somewhat, but i'm still getting great PE and growth suprisingly. I haven't seen a nudi in about 8 or 9 days, and no damage in over 2 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 I thought i'd post a link here for other ppl in case you have the nudis and are interested in how to get rid of them. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-09/eb/index.php Potassium permanganate Trial 1 – effect of 50mg/l dose on nudibranchs over two hours I dissolved 50mg potassium permanganate (Sigma, Inc.) in 1000ml aquarium water in a shallow plastic dish. I removed 25 nudibranchs from a single plating colony of Montipora (MS1) and placed them into the container with the solution. I placed another 25 nudibranchs into another shallow plastic dish with only 500ml aquarium water. The following timeline describes the effects as viewed under a Nikon dissecting microscope: t=1 minute nudibranchs immediately in motion as though reacting to noxious agent t=5 minutes nudibranchs twisting and curling, cerata tightly folded against body, some raising heads up in water column t=30 minutes nudibranchs moving very slowly, seven have detached and are floating in water but are reactive to a probe; treatment water becoming brownish three nudibranchs removed and placed into 500 ml fresh seawater t=60 minutes nudibranchs appear nearly dead, some are disintegrating; water appears brownish. nudibranchs removed appear motionless and unattached; unreactive to probe t=120 minutes complete disintegration and no nudibranchs visible in water nudibranchs removed are dead and cerata are detaching; no further disintegration as with those still in treatment water Trial 2 – effect of 50mg/l dose on coral and nudibranchs over two hours An apparently healthy fragment of the same genet of MS1 with a solid mass of nudibranchs (est. >50) on the coral and visible egg clusters was placed into 1000ml aquarium water in a shallow plastic dish with 50mg of potassium permanganate (KMnO4), as above. The following timeline describes the effects as viewed under a Nikon dissecting microscope: t=1 minute nudibranchs immediately begin crawling randomly away from tissue boundary where they were feeding t=5 minutes nudibranchs twisting and curling, cerata tightly folded against body, some raising heads up in water column coral appears unaffected by treatment t=30 minutes nudibranchs mostly motionless, some still walking slowly and some detached and floating in water column coral appears unaffected by treatment water is very brown from organic oxidation t=60 minutes no movement in any nudibranchs; three slightly reactive to probe, some disintegration coral appears unaffected by treatment water completely brown and difficult to see coral or bottom of container t=120 minutes no nudibranchs or egg clusters visible on coral coral is brownish but appears unaffected by treatment coral is placed into quarantine system (sharing same water volume as original colonies) t= 240 minutes coral polyps expanded and coloration normal Trial 3 – effect of high dose (200mg/l) on corals and nudibranchs Multiple fragments of four species (three MS1, two MS2, two MS3 and three each of M. digitata; green, purple and pink morphs) were exposed to 200mg KMnO4 dissolved in 1000ml aquarium water. Some colonies had nudibranchs present with egg masses; some had neither visible egg masses nor nudibranchs. Colonies remained in the solution for two hours, were rinsed in seawater and removed. All nudibranchs and egg masses were gone, presumably disintegrated. The treatment water was opaque purple brown, indicating an excess of KMnO4 for the amount of organic material oxidized over the two-hour time frame. The corals appeared dead; no mucus was palpable and the polyps appeared disintegrated. They appeared to have only bare skeleton with no overlying tissue. The coral colonies were placed into the quarantine system (sharing same water volume as original colonies). After two days, four M. digitata colonies began extending polyps. After four days, two MS1 colonies, two MS2 colonies, two MS3 colonies and five M. digitata colonies all extended their polyps and appeared normal and healthy, except for areas devoid of tissue previously consumed by nudibranchs. Total mortality from treatment was four M. digitata fragments and one MS1 fragment. This treatment dosage was very stressful to the colonies but indicates an upper concentration limit and time for what was almost an LD50 level (LD31.50) for corals, and effected a 100% kill rate for nudibranchs and egg masses. Trial 4 – effect of 50mg/ml dose on corals and nudibranchs for 90-210 minutes Fragments of the same number and genets used in Trial 3, but all hosting aeolid nudibranchs and egg masses, were exposed to 50mg KMnO4 dissolved in 1000ml aquarium water for 1.5-3.5 hours. In no case were nudibranchs or eggs visible on any corals after the treatment durations. Corals in the 3.5 hour treatment looked highly stressed and appeared grossly like those exposed to the 200mg/l dose of Trial 2. They recovered much more quickly, however, and all appeared normal within 24 hours. No coral mortalities occurred. Trial 5 – effect of minimal dosage on remaining corals and nudibranchs Fragments of the same number and genets used in Trial 3, but all hosting aeolid nudibranchs and egg masses, were exposed to 50mg KMnO4 dissolved in 1000ml aquarium water for 1.5 hours. In no case were nudibranchs or eggs visible on any corals after the treatment durations. Corals appeared normal after 24 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsoz Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I am glad that the potassium permanganate is getting a good workout. I am having a great time in Palm Springs. The temperature is in the high 80's and low 90's. I am working on my tan mostly. dsoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 Lucky you!!! Enjoy your vacation Dennis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishiefish Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 wow so is this pretty common? I have been reading about a fair amount of people haveing them...I dont have them yet(scary) but would love to be prepared....I can trade you chocolate chip cookies(laugh) there the best you'll have....um not to step on the toes of your wife...sorry(whistle) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 Well they are easy to get. I got mine from an order of inverts. The only coral i have added in 6+ months was a fingernail sized sunset monti frag. And as per my routine i dipped it and examined it very very closely. I'm positive i didn't get them from that frag. The only other thing i've added was the inverts. I'm always down for some chocolate chip cookies!!! But it isn't necessary. Dennis gave me the stuff for free and i'll pass it along free of charge. I don't want others going thru this mess, but if you have to its nice to be prepared. I'll put your name on some along with Susanne. I'll try to get in touch with both of you next week. Anyone else down south need some??????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishiefish Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 thanks you so very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsoz Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Well they are easy to get. I got mine from an order of inverts. The only coral i have added in 6+ months was a fingernail sized sunset monti frag. And as per my routine i dipped it and examined it very very closely. I'm positive i didn't get them from that frag. The only other thing i've added was the inverts. Remember how you said that the TMPCC does not affect the eggs? Maybe there were some eggs on the frag that resisted the dip, then it took 6+ months for the population to build up to the point of your noticing? I know it took me several months before I found out that I had them. dsoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted March 30, 2008 Author Share Posted March 30, 2008 Well that frag was only about 3 weeks old and we are talking a finger nail size that i inspected. I'm sure they came in on some snails or a wild colony pack i got. Either way, i've got em and i think i'm winning the battle. The potassium permangate will be the final nail if you know what i mean. Thanks again!! I thought i'd put up some pics i took when i first noticed the nudis. Maybe they'll help someone. You can see the crescent shaped white area they were eating. I noticed this spot first On the side of this wild encrusting monti Some white areas here on this cap My DIY QT tank Weapon of choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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