R-3 Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 Good idea on the bulkhead Sol but I think I wanna make it permanent and totally failsafe I think with T5's with a 3" wide reflector 8 bulbs crammed together is 24". 1/2" between them all makes about 30". Maybe i should think about 10, hmmm........I wish someone made a ballast that drove 4 80w T5's!! I guess I could go Icecap and do 3 at a time with a 660. Decisions, decisions. Later Ryan Im really torn between T5s and MH. I originally wanted MH but then looked at T5 as a option too. I think im just unsure if I will be able to achieve the spread on the tank with a lumenarc. If I wanna do halides it will be two or I will go with T5's thats kinda where Im at. One thing I do love about the T5 is how I can manipulate colors in my tank. But the other thing I really like is the definition with MH and the shimmering. Uggghhh. Thanks for the advice guys. Later Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister crabs Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I personally like the T-5 Idea. My new 135 will have T-5's. Im looking at doing two sets of six or eight 36" bulbs since its a 72" long tank. might be too much light tho. and money lol. good luck with your build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgreenthumb Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Put me down in the MH column. T5 lighting can have great PAR' date=' but nothing comes close to the look of point-source lighting over a tank IMO -- the highlights are brighter, the shadows are darker and the glimmer lines add sooo much to the overall look of the reef. Fluorescent lit tanks just aren't as 3-d to me; they're just... [i']flatter[/i]. I completely agree! You just don't get the same colors and growth from sps corals under fluorescent. I love them for actinics, but as a sole light source for a reef they just aren't quite enough. No fluroescents, or l.e.d.'s can even touch the depth penetration of a MH and thats what really counts. Don't get me wrong I love t5's and use them for actinic supplement and that extra viewing time before and after the halides, but they are definitely no MH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I wonder how you came to this conclusion? You just don't get the same colors and growth from sps corals under fluorescent. Do you have something to back this up? Not trying to argue, or start the T5 vs MH argument. Just in my experience having used both, i see as bright colors and faster growth on my SPS under my T5s. Having such flexibility in the color that the light produces helps in this regard. Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 In my experience, with all other conditions kept constant, my SPS grew faster under 8X54 watt t5's than they did under 2X250 watt halides with 1 X 54 watt t5 actinic. And the t5's saved me about $5 per month on the electric bill. That said, I stick with the halides. I just couldn't find a bulb combination (even with a lot of experimentation) that made the corals look the colors I wanted to. By no means were my corals brown under t5's, but they just didn't pop the way I like. So, I shoulder the $5 a month and slower growth. To me, it's worth it. Take it for what it's worth. -Sol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgreenthumb Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 I wonder how you came to this conclusion? You just don't get the same colors and growth from sps corals under fluorescent. Do you have something to back this up? Not trying to argue, or start the T5 vs MH argument. Just in my experience having used both, i see as bright colors and faster growth on my SPS under my T5s. Having such flexibility in the color that the light produces helps in this regard. Just curious. In short no I have no actual proof that corals grow faster and show better color under metal halide, and I guess I should of worded it a little bit differently. I came to this conclusion by not only my own experiences, but also by the simple fact of majority. Last time I checked the majority of commericial and hobbyist level coral propagators were using mh, or some combination w/ mh. I havn't seen very many, if any, amazing displays lit only by t5's. I have used both, toegther, and alone, and I personally get the best results utilizing both toegther. Lets not forget about par levels and depth penetration. While I will say an overdriven HO t5 is comparable to a 250mh, the t5 will never even come close to the depth penetration and par values of a 400mh or brighter. I guess I should turn the tables on you. How did you come to the conclusion that your t5's caused, " as bright colors and faster growth." What proof do you have to back this up? Someones word or experience doesn't exactly qualify as "proof"( I mean no offense to you at all, just stating the facts). Proof requires tangible evidence. I wish I had the time and money to do a controlled experiment and eliminate all the variables, but unfortunately I do not. Food for thought: If t5's truly did grow sps faster, and since they are slightly more efficient, then why are retail coral propagators, lfs, public and private aquariums, and the majority of hobbyist still using mh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Because the T5s are relatively new in the hobby compared to MH and it would cost bunches of $$ to replace all those MH? Just a guess I came to the conclusion just by my own results, as you did with MH. I have just seen my SPS grow faster under the T5s, and given a constant color for both, i would say the colors have been the same. Having the flexibility of colors combos with T5s tipped the scale color wise in T5s favor. You should check out the TOTMs at RC with T5s. They are pretty amazing. I gotta admit, i love the shimmer of MH!! Thats what makes this hobby so great, people can have great success so many ways. Thanks for the response Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgreenthumb Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Because the T5s are relatively new in the hobby compared to MH and it would cost bunches of $$ to replace all those MH? Just a guess I came to the conclusion just by my own results, as you did with MH. I have just seen my SPS grow faster under the T5s, and given a constant color for both, i would say the colors have been the same. Having the flexibility of colors combos with T5s tipped the scale color wise in T5s favor. You should check out the TOTMs at RC with T5s. They are pretty amazing. I gotta admit, i love the shimmer of MH!! Thats what makes this hobby so great, people can have great success so many ways. Thanks for the response It's always so amazing to me at how many different paths you can take to get to the same result or similar, and being able to discuss these different methods and paths is one of the things that makes this hobby so much fun! I definitely regularly check out the totm's at rc and I agree they are amazing, I just couldn't reme,ber seeing any that were solely lit by t5's, but thats not saying much because I am usually more focused on the corals than tank parameters. TOTM alone is a great example of great success using varying methods, the only constant in these tanks is usually water parameters. Out of curiousity are you at all limited in the placement of sps, and clams in your tank? Do you get the same growth and colors at the top of the tank when compared to the bottom? Or I guess I should ask you how deep your tank is? For me I was set on using t5's only when I got into this hobby, I use them for indoor gardening and love the results I get from them from a horticulture standpoint. I started my 90 with a new wave 8 fixture 4ft HO t5. Loved the variety of K thats available, loved how cool they ran, and most of all the even distribution of light. I just found myself quite limited by the placement of sps in my tank. Anthing sps deeper than 14in seriously slowed down growth wise, and colors slowly began to fade, but not completely. For me that was the deciding factor. I just didn't wanted to be limited in the placement of corals. I love my encrusting monti's and wanted to be able to place them anywhere. Just my own experience, curious if you have similar results, or if you find this not to be true at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhuru Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 If you go with MH get those reeflux 12K bulbs, there is that TOTM on RC that uses only those and no supplementation, his tank looks amazing. That would be a pretty cheap setup and energy wise should be comparable to going with T5's. Plus you get the shimmer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhuru Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 I found the article: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-09/totm/index.php He credits much of his success to the lightning. Coralvue Reeflux bulbs on Coralvue e-ballasts and Coralvue Lumenarc mini reflectors:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePremiumAquarium Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 The t-5 halide argument could go on for days, but IMO there really is no way to get the kind of pop that I desire out of t-5's. I have used both in many configurations, and really the only thing that does it for me is MH's. I really didn't notice too much of a difference in my electrical bill and my corals just seem to look tons better. As far as growth goes, I have heard from many people that both will do very well if done correctly and I have seen the success of both. Still for me, its all about the halides. If I didn't have a choice, I would of course use t-5's, but if the choice was mine to make, halides would be the only way for me to go. This of course is assuming that your tank temperature is not an issue and you can afford the chiller or a/c to help when we have hot times of the year. I also have found that it is much less expensive to replace a few metal halide bulbs then it is to replace a dozen or more t-5's. Garrett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 I start out new frags on the sand then gradually bring them up. They don't lose any color doing this. My tank is a 75gal, so 21" deep using a 6-54w TEK fixture. I can keep them at any level and not lose colors. I think the reflectors are key when using any light, and this fixture has great reflectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister crabs Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 I dont want to hijack anyones thread but i have a question...... I just bought a 72" long tank I want to light with MH AND T-5's. my question is I wanted most of the light to come from the T'5's due to the heat but still want shimmer. The tank has 2 crossbraces and so If I take and put a 175w MH over center opening and 2 24" 8 bulb T-5's over other two openings will I get bost of both worlds or am I just dreaming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael7979 Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 I didn't know MHs were an option. I thought the only choices were 4' and 5' T-5 bulbs. That said I change my vote to metal halides! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamatSLS Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Get the Eheim 1262, it's a great pump, silent, runs cool, low draw, very nice. Get the 8 5' T5's, tons of light and you'll love it. No need to stagger 4'ers. You could run 2 250W halides in conjuction with 4 80W lamps also. It would rock. I highly recommend the T5 only option though, for the record -Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 I dont want to hijack anyones thread but i have a question...... I just bought a 72" long tank I want to light with MH AND T-5's. my question is I wanted most of the light to come from the T'5's due to the heat but still want shimmer. The tank has 2 crossbraces and so If I take and put a 175w MH over center opening and 2 24" 8 bulb T-5's over other two openings will I get bost of both worlds or am I just dreaming? Just add some LEDs. Way cheaper and last forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Yeah, (sarcasm)they run a lot cooler too(/sarcasm). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgreenthumb Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Get the Eheim 1262, it's a great pump, silent, runs cool, low draw, very nice. Get the 8 5' T5's, tons of light and you'll love it. No need to stagger 4'ers. You could run 2 250W halides in conjuction with 4 80W lamps also. It would rock. I highly recommend the T5 only option though, for the record -Sam What are you using to light your tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Yeah' date=' (sarcasm)they run a lot cooler too(/sarcasm).[/quote'] Yes they do. Am i missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 The fact that they really don't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Hmmm, that was a smart-*** response... sorry -- Here's a more civil one: Current-generation LEDs are less efficient than either metal halide or T5 lighting; fewer lumens are generated per watt of electricity consumed. That being the case, the only way an LED could produce less heat than a MH or T5 bulb is to produce a correspondingly lower amount of light. If an LED fixture is producing less heat than a MH, it is producing a LOT less light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamatSLS Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 What are you using to light your tank? I'm running a 6 lamp Tek light, with UVL and Giesemann lamps. Been that way for a long while. It's a 3' fixture, and my tank is 48"x18"x24" 90G... go figure. Coverage is even, and my corals look great, so it's all good I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plack Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 As far as T-5 Vrs Halides I can tell you that it does make a difference on the top of the tank not so much on the bottom !! I used a meter and measured Vho actinic's new T-5's New and old and various Halides. The thing that surprised me was near the bottom of a tank say beyond 18" T-5's Lost less intensity and stayed more consistent even when they got old. Now halides near the top portion are significantly brighter IF they are DE and say 10K. I have 3 250 DE and 2 VHO on my 180 AGA. I may swap the vho over to t-5 some day but for now it's good, just takes more electricity. You could go for a Wave 2k or a tunze wave box! If your buget allows it ? :-) Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Hmmm, that was a smart-*** response... sorry -- Here's a more civil one: Current-generation LEDs are less efficient than either metal halide or T5 lighting; fewer lumens are generated per watt of electricity consumed. That being the case, the only way an LED could produce less heat than a MH or T5 bulb is to produce a correspondingly lower amount of light. If an LED fixture is producing less heat than a MH, it is producing a LOT less light. Yes, i agree it was and added nothing to the conversation. The reason i suggested LEDs was to supply some shimmer, just like he was asking. LEDs would give you the shimmer without the excessive addition of heat and light. I'm not talking about an entire LED fixture, just some LEDs to supplement the T5s he wants to use and achieve the shimmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R-3 Posted June 3, 2008 Author Share Posted June 3, 2008 Good ideas guys! That was pretty weak for a T5 vs MH conversation. Nobody threatened the others life! Just kidding I think I might be buying Nyles T5 setup. Its a 8 bulb. I was also thinking of doing something like what Sam said. Since I have 33" width to cover I think I could get away with 4-6 T5s (2 or 3 on each side) and run two 250's on Lumenarc Minis that are like 15" wide. I think that light combo would ROCK!!!! Best of both worlds. What does everyone think of that? Later Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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