Nyles Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 I have been fighting Nitrates for sometime, cleaning like a freak, doing 30% water changes twice weekly, stopped feeding all together, and my nitrates don't go down a drop. After doing a few months of research and giving up on water changes I decided to try a nitrate reactor, I was looking for a fully autotropic version, the Sulfur method looked most effective after doing all the research. This method uses a 1/3 amount of 99.9% pure sulfur and 2/3 calcium aragonite (I used ARM media) in my EXISTING cal reactor. Keep in mind you don't need a reactor but it makes the method more productive with less media. All I did was dump in the cal media and then the sulfur beads (3.5 mm) and run the system full speed for 2 hours, then set to 1 drip per second. The cal media grows bacteria similarly as a bio ball (for theoretically better effectiveness you can try "Seachem Matrix" this would make the system FULLY AUTOTROPIC) but you would lose calcium addition. As the nitrate free float past the Sulfur it is broken down to nitrogen. Here is the lamens break down: 4NO3 + 3S ->2 N2 + 3 SO4 Here is a documented status of the tank as of a week ago. December 20th: Existing rector (knop c) retrofitted to be used as nitrate reactor, this consisted of removing the co2, and adding calcium aragonite bed after the effluent to drip into as the effluent can be acidic, the cal bed reduces the effect and buffers the system back up, just as you would with a calcium reactor. Nitrate reactor flushed for 2 hours, then set to a drip of 1 drip per second. I added no bacteria feeding even though I have prodibio for food if I wanted. My existing Nitrates where 25ppm December 21st: checked effluent- nitrate still 25ppm December 22nd: checked effluent- nitrates in effluent where 100ppm or more (unreadable and off the charts) This shows the media is getting colonized with bacteria (a good thing) At this point I left the system as it is and touched nothing. December 23rd: Checked effluent- Effleunt levels at 0ppm nitrates so I cranked it to 2 drips per second to process more nitrates. December 24th - Effluent 0ppm so cranked it to about 3 drips per second and this is about as fast as I am comfortable with as I have a pretty small reactor and I used MUCH less media then the professional reactors use. December 25th (xmas baby!)- I checked effluent 0ppm still. Since I was in a festive mood I checked the tank nitrates and to my amazement they where less than 10 ppm... less than a week ago they where 25ppm or more December 26th - 7ppm no3 in tank In the reactor I used 1 pound of pure sulfur, I ordered 2 pounds just in case but it seems 1 pound is enough. The only flaw I can find is at three drips per second I can only get my ph down to 7.3ph, and at 1 drip per second I get it down to about 7.15ph. (keep in mind this reading is after I buffer the effluent so it could be SLIGHTLY lower in the chamber) I am going to watch the effluent overflow box filled with media (ARM aragonite) and the cal media in the reactor to see if I am getting decent media processing. I'm begging to wonder if I can combo up the co2 with the sulfur to bring it down the little bit I need to get the reactor dissolving media properly. The alternative is adding a separate cal reactor. I need to measure the cal on the output of the effluent I just have not had time yet, as I am still in disbelief that this method works so effectively. This method is used in most the larger aquariums and has been tested in coral systems for over 4 years without water changes with good results. I will keep you posted on the rest of the readings, for now I am going to stare and my tank and enjoy. Follow ups to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siskiou Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 Congratulations on the success! Where did you get the sulfur? I've been checking into that lately, and found a simple DIY nitrate reactor made from RO canisters, but have no clue where to get the right media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted December 25, 2007 Author Share Posted December 25, 2007 I got the media from Midwest aquatics, there is a carib sea version the marine depot sells but I was not happy with the purity or the size. I have enough left to make another one if you like, please PM me and I can get you some info. Your total cost is $21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siskiou Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 Will contact you in the next few days! Too busy with Christmas for the time being... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted December 26, 2007 Author Share Posted December 26, 2007 I will also note I seen a few Extremely simple version of this... here is one http://mars.reefkeepers.net/USHomePage/USArticles/Zmiro/DenitratationSoufre.html But the recirculating type is much more effective, I used 1/20th the media and am getting the same effects, you could use the method linked there but I would remove the phosphate and recirc the sulfur and cal media... just keep in mind this system works most effectively in an oxygen depleted "zone", hince the use of a calcium reactor I had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael7979 Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 Very cool Nyles!! This is what you were talking about doing when we talked at the Xmas party, right? Glad it has worked for you and please do keep us updated with progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted December 26, 2007 Author Share Posted December 26, 2007 Yes it is, so far so good, I am going to test the water tonight when I get home. Everything looks great though. I still need to research if I can add the Co2 (to get me back down to 7.8-7.9 ph) without having a reaction that kills the bacteria or reduces its effectiveness, in theory it should not effect the bacteria since the sulfur is creating low levels of oxygen already but I am going to talk with Randy about it when I get some time. Of course the simple thing to do is run the reactor for calcium separate, but I want to experiment just because it will be interesting. I will wait till my no3 hits zero before experimenting, therefore eliminating good data because I will not have nitrates to test no3 removal effectiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted December 27, 2007 Author Share Posted December 27, 2007 Tested tank water tonight and its down to 7 ppm no3. Looking good, tank looks the same and I have (for the last three day) bumped my feeding to twice daily instead of once daily, so the fish are happy. I am going to catch that dang hawkfish so I can get some dragon faced pipefish but thats another matter all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted January 6, 2008 Author Share Posted January 6, 2008 Well I tore this guy down today and rebuilt everything. It worked fine but I lost the effectivness of the calcium reactor, so I built a stand alone Nitrate reactor and fed it to the calcium reactor and put a controller on the cal reactor. This should be able to do nitrate and calcium. I would have left it but with the clams and all the SPS I tested at a loss of 80ppm calcium in 6 days (450 down to 370). New setup up and running, I made a larger nitrate reactor so I can pull more effluent faster since the cal reactor will need to process water faster. -In short from start to finish the Nitrate reactor is fed a line by gravity from the sump to the Nitrate reactor -In the reactor is a pump that circulates the water for best effectiveness of the sulfur. I added all the sulfur I purchased now since I decided to go with a much larger reactor for effluent reasons. -There is a line ran from the reactor to the calcium reactor (no pump) The cal reactor PULLS the water from the nitrate reactor as my cal reactor requires no pump (it has negative pressure on the inlet) The ph going in is aprox 7.25 ph -The cal reactor is holding 6.9 ph (arm media) as I find ARM does great at higher PH and I don't have to drag it down and effect the tank as much. -The cal reactor is then dripped to a holder that holds the ph probe and controller set to turn of ph at 6.7 and it typically holds at 6.9 Feel free to ask questions, I will post back after I have tested it thoroughly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 So hows the new one doing? Any pics on the new build? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted January 7, 2008 Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 Its a homemade haircut. I made it out of a large ARM media container.... quite funny really. Its going through its cycle right now and stuffed way under the tank behind cal and co2. Its pumping out high nitrates as of last night night due to the fact I had to double the amount of media so its going through the process of building up the bacteria again. I'm hoping it will cycle as fast this time and have "0" nitrates when I get home today, I doubt it though. I will follow up tonight. Its a gravity system so I don't want to move it, if I pull it out and don't shut off siphon I can possibly??? kill off the cycle and have to recycle ?? I don't know. I need to head to Home Depot and get more plumbing supplies but its such a pain to get over there. You will see it this weekend anyhow since your coming to get your corals. I will note that this guy was built with regular things in the house, just to prove how simple they are... or.... how cheap I am. Anyhow I could make a calcium reactor this same way and I bet you it would work as well as my $300 one.... The main difference is I would probably need a very small pump to get the effluent out or in and gravity feed the other line on a valve as I did this setup, regardless, its super cheap and effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Yah i'm all for DIY as you know Looking forward to seeing it saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 OK, tested effluent and its at zero, yippie, now I will let it run a few days and then start to get the calcium reactor section dialed in, to cool. FTI the tank nitrates shot right back up to 25ppm.... figures huh? I can't tell if its something in the tank like the sand bed or something like a leaky CLS bulkhead leeching stagnant water from the old CLS system. I don't know but it always makes it up to 25 ppm on the salifert kit if I don't do WC like mad. I can't wait to tear this thing down and start over. I will probably end up ordering some of that 6" acrylic tubing and make a full nitrate reactor with a union on top, just because I want it to look purdy This is a very cool DIY in the fact its so effective with so little work. I wish I could figure out where the bloody nitrates are coming from but this will due till next year when I step up to another tank, thats a whole nother subject though. I will note that the CO2 usage is very low, this is going to make my CO2 consumption almost nil, the CO2 into the cal reactor is now at 7 and its almost holding its parameters without the co2 all together. You could almost do a no2 reactor and a cal reactor inline with no co2 at all, however you would be limited to the amount you can turn it up but it would be accomplishable with restrictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayR Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Good thread!! Can you attach some pix when you do this little project? I too always have high nitrates & want to get them in control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 I will take pics next time I take it out, its a bit of a mess but it will give you an idea how to make one, very simple really. I am going to my local acrylic shop right now if they have something that will work I may grab it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 ok here is a pic and video. For reference please make sure the unit is AIR TIGHT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siskiou Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 So, what exactly do you have in there (besides the media)? A pump? And which one of the hoses is connected to it? I'd like to try something like that, but need the the step-by-step instructions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 instructions where posted, here they are: -In short from start to finish the Nitrate reactor is fed a line by gravity from the sump to the Nitrate reactor -In the reactor is a pump that circulates the water for best effectiveness of the sulfur (pump is in the bottom and has a pipe leading to the top to circulate water, see video). I added all the sulfur I purchased now since I decided to go with a much larger reactor for effluent reasons. -There is a line ran from the reactor to the calcium reactor (no pump) The cal reactor PULLS the water from the nitrate reactor as my cal reactor requires no pump (it has negative pressure on the inlet) The ph going in is aprox 7.25 ph -The cal reactor is holding 6.9 ph (arm media) as I find ARM does great at higher PH and I don't have to drag it down and effect the tank as much. -The cal reactor is then dripped to a holder that holds the ph probe and controller set to turn of ph at 6.7 and it typically holds at 6.9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 none of the hoses are ran to anything in the reactor, they simply are ran through the top and go about half way down. The hose from sump to no3 reactor is gravity fed, the hose simply keep the water level what is in the sump. The hose out goes to the cal reactor, the cal reactor slowly takes water from the nitrate reactor to make the calcium. this is all controlled by the valve. If your not running a cal reactor you could simply T-off the tube that circulates water in the no3 reactor and put a valve on it to control drip, and keep the gravity fed in. Or you could seal the unit air tight but there is nitrogen release that will eventually build up as that is the by product of the reactor. Thats why I chose to gravity in and PULL out from cal reactor. you could do it many ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Good explanation in the video and good job on that reactor. Looking forward to seeing it Saturday!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siskiou Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Thanks for the detailed explanation, Nyles! Would my coralife ozone reactor work as a nitrate reactor in a pinch? I could set the amount of water going through with a valve, and it has an airline for release of built up nitrogen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share Posted January 17, 2008 I dunno, I never have had a use for ozone... so your asking the wrong guy. if it will recirc water and DRIP effluent it should work. Just keep in mind Im battling this guy right now, I have since removed it from the cal reactor because its just a mess. If I drip more than 2 drips per second it stops reducing nitrates and CREATES them, so you have to be able to control the drip. If you can do that your golden. Mine runs on its own now to keep the system simple and the cal reactor can run full bore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defigart Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Ok, I have a couple questions. Looking at the "Petite reactor", (in the link above) could you use a small continuous overflow into the first section, and drain the last one into say your sump. Use a valve on the outlet, to control the rate of water exiting, (thereby the amount entering)? Or, alternativly what am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted January 19, 2008 Author Share Posted January 19, 2008 You could but to be efficient you need to deplete the oxygen levels to help reduce the PH for maximum effectiveness. That would work and I looked at that. Keep in mind the output on the two pounds of sulfur I run only has the capacity to flow out of the system at about 1 drip per second. If you wanted to increase the drip you would need to make the unit larger (more cal media and more sulfur) this would enable the system to hold a lower ph with more flow. In a short short answer, you could do it, but the effectiveness would not be the same, HOWEVER for low levels of no3 reduction it would work effectively. Keep in mind the "petite" model uses WAY more sulfur than I used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defigart Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 You could but to be efficient you need to deplete the oxygen levels to help reduce the PH for maximum effectiveness. That would work and I looked at that. Keep in mind the output on the two pounds of sulfur I run only has the capacity to flow out of the system at about 1 drip per second. If you wanted to increase the drip you would need to make the unit larger (more cal media and more sulfur) this would enable the system to hold a lower ph with more flow. In a short short answer, you could do it, but the effectiveness would not be the same, HOWEVER for low levels of no3 reduction it would work effectively. Keep in mind the "petite" model uses WAY more sulfur than I used. The size is why I put Petite in quotes. I am thinking of having something smaller made to hang on the tank. With a valve on the outflow you could control the flowrate out, and then since you have a continous syphon coming in, you control the flow in as well. What do you think the volume of two pounds of the sulfer pellets is? And it looks like you want a similar volume of Calcium carbonate after to bring the pH back up? Or in your case a Calcium reactor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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