Look at this awesome tank

[Jay]

This just amazes me to no end. Here we sit and discuss skimmers and how to make them skim better. Phosphate control and nitrate control and chemistry. Then I see this guys tank here. He uses no skimmer at all. His system is just like mine but no skimmer and he does not have the phosphate reactors. His corals are very bright and colorful. Looks to be very successful. Everywhere I read says aggressive skimmers and nutrient reduction blah blah blah then I see this...(scratch) What gives!

 

Go figure..........(scratch)

 

Jay

 

http://www.socalireefs.com/totm/

[pledosophy]

Your crusing my old stomping grounds. So Cali has some sick tanks for sure.

 

I use no skimmer, and no phosphate reactor myself. I prefer refugiums and water changes. I don't even change all that much water anymore to be honest.

 

It's kind of a regional thing IMO. Leng Sy the owner of Ecosystems is down there and holds court at many LFS's. After talking with Leng, and some of the other Ecosystem employees, I never saw the need for protein skimmers. I looked at all of my favorite tanks and none of them used skimmers so I never did.

 

I have been thinking of cashing int he change jar for a very nice high quaility skimmer (possibly Euro Reef) one of these days just to see what all the hub bub is about, but as of now my tank levels are all where I want them to be. I feed 3 to 4x a day with no algae problems and 0 nitrates, so I see no use as of yet. I do want to try it though. I also want to play with a controller. Just the gadget hound in me I suppose.

 

I prefer refuigums mostly because they are what I have always done I suppose, but also for there food production. Having a constant supply of food in my displays is cool IMO, as close to more natural environments as I can get. Ya the 5 cubes a day of frozen food help as well, but the more availbale the better.

 

Jsut for the record I currently have a 29g with a 25g refugium, and a 65g with a 30g ish refugium. Both tanks are skimmer less, and doing awesome. I'm really happy with them, which is more then most can say for there tanks.

 

JMO

[uhuru]

Here's another skimmerless beautiful tank. Looking under the stand I can't get over how simple the setup is.

 

http://haaga.aqua-web.org/082006/index.htm

 

 

[Jay]

Thats definitly a awesome tank. He did start with a skimmer and other traditional equipment as seen here in his other pages. He has been skimmerless for over a year apparently.

 

http://haaga.aqua-web.org/

 

Jay

[oxx155]

Lots of water changes will work.

Having few fish and lots of cleaner crew can also work.

I can't imagine any of those tanks get less than 2 hours each day in maintenance. If you can't put in the time then you get the equipment to do the work for you (aka - Protein Skimmer).

[cyenna]

I wonder if they have that protein/oil build up on the water surface

[Jay]

Im gonna start a 30 gallon tank in my airplane shop. Skimmerless with a 20 gallon refugium, dsb and about 40 pounds liverock. I already have everything needed including tank, fuge and 48 inch VHO light with 4 uri bulbs. Looks like a good experiment. I will change carbon and water every 2 weeks. I am thinking I can use the water from my main tank as I do the regular water changes. I change out about 40 gallons a month from it and the water is perfect. Skimmed and all the water parameters are perfect having skimmer and fuge on it as well as running carbon and phoslock.

 

Im just thinking out loud tossing around the idea.

 

Jay

[jadams7]

Hey I could not get the first link to work. I ran my first tank (46 bow) with no skimmer and it was fine, had plenty of lr and livestock in it. I think my refugium is what kept it alive (which I no longer have, for fear of it going sexual and killing everything haha). A well established 'fuge can do wonders! I personally am too lazy to clean the thing multiple times daily so I gave in and got a skimmer. Nice to see some people that can make it successful without it!

[Twitterbait]

If you have not mastered keeping a tank with a skimmer then i would not recommend keeping a skimmerless system.

[pledosophy]

Lots of water changes will work.

Having few fish and lots of cleaner crew can also work.

I can't imagine any of those tanks get less than 2 hours each day in maintenance. If you can't put in the time then you get the equipment to do the work for you (aka - Protein Skimmer).

 

You'd be surprised on how little water I change and still have good results. I did the first water change on my 65g in three weeks. A 10g change. Nitrates did creep up to 10.

 

I don't keep a lot of fish, or clean up crew for that matter, but I do feed like I have a lot of fish. Typically I feed 5 cubes of frozen food, daily.

 

I spend about ten minutes a day on my tanks, ya feeding like that will do it to you. Every couple of weeks I spend about an hour doing the water change and cleaning the glass. Also remove some macro algae.

 

I wonder if they have that protein/oil build up on the water surface

 

I get none. IME that comes from a lack of surface agitation, which I have plenty of. I like to have the surface of the water moving for 02 exchange. Also both tanks have overflow boxes which provide some break up as well.

 

I think my refugium is what kept it alive (which I no longer have, for fear of it going sexual and killing everything haha)

 

You gotta look into more types of macro. Some are very unlikely to go sexual. JME

[jadams7]

You gotta look into more types of macro. Some are very unlikely to go sexual. JME

 

 

 

I know, after getting scared to death when I found out what could happen, I then learned that it is very rare that it does, and even so most of the time there is little side effect. Either way it all died in the moving of my tank anyways, so I decided to get Chaeto as recommended. Looking good as of now though.

[tidalsculpin]

So what is the desire to go skimmerless?

 

Simplicity, electricity costs, less fuss, going "au natural"

or is it all of the above?

[acrylics]

So what is the desire to go skimmerless?

 

Simplicity, electricity costs, less fuss, going "au natural"

or is it all of the above?

All of the above. I've never run a skimmer on any of my tanks. I just don't think they're necessary for many tanks, feed more skim more feed more skim more, etc. Carefully chosen livestock is essential though IMO. To me, many folks get the biggest and best for the "gadget factor". That said, many people get good results with skimming hard and I don't argue with results, just a different way of getting there.

 

James

[pledosophy]

Chaeto is a macro algae. I have actually had chaeto go sexual. Never had prolifera, red grape caulpera, or ochotode go sexual IME. When I moved once I forgot about a container of macro under my stand. Went with no light, no circulation, and no heat for five days. Prolifera, red grape, and chaeto were all fine. Green grape was dust.

 

So what is the desire to go skimmerless?

 

Simplicity, electricity costs, less fuss, going "au natural"

or is it all of the above?

 

Few things.

 

You were probalby told from day one you needed a skimmer. I was not. So I ran tanks for years without one. All was well.

 

After that I got into macro algaes, skimmers remove some of thenutrients macro's eat. My maco doing well is as important to me as some people SPS doing well. Removing it's food sounds silly to me.

 

After years of running a succsessful tank there is no need to change IMO.

 

Macro not only absorbs nutrients but refugims also provide a lot of food production. Using a device to remove food from my corals just doesn't make sense to me.

 

The only arguement I have heard against my methodlolgy is the gradual yellowing of the water. I have not experienced such. So no need to change.

 

I have no algae problems, I feed more then anyone thinks I should, my tank runs great, my corals and fish are happy. If it ain't broke.

 

IMO skimmers are very natural. I grew up by the beach, the waves look like skimmers to me. I just found a way that works for me. If your way is working for you and giving you the results you want that is awesome. If it ain't broke.

 

I'm not telling you to unplugg your skimmer, jsut sayingI don't use one and all the myths about us that don't are off base IME.

 

[undrtkr_00]

Chaeto is a macro algae. I have actually had chaeto go sexual. Never had prolifera, red grape caulpera, or ochotode go sexual IME. When I moved once I forgot about a container of macro under my stand. Went with no light, no circulation, and no heat for five days. Prolifera, red grape, and chaeto were all fine. Green grape was dust.

 

Your experience with the grape caulerpa is interesting to me. I had a chunk of live rock with a bunch of grape caulerpa on it in my display. I wanted to limit the caulerpa to the sump, so I took that chunk of rock out and set it in a bucket (of rainwater) on my front porch. So, it had natural light, no heat (it was this winter, and the bucket froze over multiple times), no salt, and no circulation. After a month or so of this, the caulerpa was looking healthy as could be! I took the rock out and let it dry out completely. Now I can finally get the crusty, dried up stuff off.

 

EDIT: This was green grape caulerpa.

[Nyles]

This is all preference, I have ran both skimmer and skimmerless, its a simple question of how much work you want to do and if you have a big fish load or feed heavy skimmerless can be a nightmare. It has its ADVANTAGES and disadvantages though

[mister crabs]

I have no skimmer on my biocube 29gallon right now but I also feed sparingly and only have 3 small fish. I sometimes feel as if I under feed. I am going to get the octopus HOB skimmer here shortly so I can over feed. pretty much my only reasoning for a skimmer is so i can feed more. My mini fuge in the back chambers with the LRR and the chaeto have done a great job of keeping my parameters in check so far.

[impur]

This is one of the great things about this hobby. What one person does can be done with great success, but not might be preferred by another so they go another way. And it works for them. We have such diverse life in our tanks, no reason the methods to keep them shouldn't be diverse as well.

 

Those are both beautiful tanks! I can only dream of growing SPS like that.