SPS Dying If No Water Change Over A Week

[Peng]

Hey guys, my SPS has been dying (RTN) every time I don't change my water for longer than a week... Did anyone have similar experience? My detectable parameters are fine. KH, Ca, and Mg are fine. The aquarium is 340 L, 90 G. I usually change 90~110 L (25~30G) per week. But sometimes I'm busy and can't do water change, and then about 12 days after a water change some corals start RTN. It starts when SPS's slime gets "drier" and "thinner". Their color, especially the purple color, start to pale away. And RTN usually starts at 2 major spots: the tips & the shaded areas. I'm not sure why this is happening but I'm guessing there may be some trace elements that are getting exhausted in the aquarium when new saltwater doesn't come in... I'm going to buy iodine and potassium test kits to see if any of them were getting low in my aquarium. Oh I also use phosguard. I'm not sure if its release of aluminium plays a factor. But I've pulled it offline (in fact I've done it multiple times but every I pulled it off I changed the water rigorously so it cannot tell which one caused the problem) to see if anything gets better. I feed heavily. 

Please share your ideas.

Thanks.

[Smann]

Might check your skimmer in the correct gph going thru for the size of tank and proper skim setting heights,etc. I some similar issues, not weekly but over time that rechecking my complete skimmer setup solved. System is 259g tank with 75g sump.

[Peng]

Might check your skimmer in the correct gph going thru for the size of tank and proper skim setting heights,etc. I some similar issues, not weekly but over time that rechecking my complete skimmer setup solved. System is 259g tank with 75g sump.

 

That's interesting I'll check that. It could be either the depletion of certain elements or the accumulation of something that's toxic. They all go pale like really quickly before they start "drying out" version of RTN.

[Smann]

Are these new corals you have added or established colonies that just started going bad unless you kept the water changes going

[Smann]

Water changes I would think mean water quality issues not necessarily parameters

[Peng]

Water changes I would think mean water quality issues not necessarily parameters

Yes. They are established colonies. They have been through this many times. Every time I can fix the problem temporarily by doing 15~30% water change + pull the phosguard offline. They would usually heal after a few weeks. Now I don't know if it's the phosguard or the water elements because I always do both together. I'm going to do a trial for which I will keep the phosguard offline and change water another time, then pause water change for 2 weeks and see if the same phenomenon is taking place again. If so, I think it's safe to say that the problem is probably not associated with the use of phosguard. I'm also getting potassium/iodine test kits and see if any of them is too low in my aquarium. Because every time I change the water the corals heal up, there is definitely something that is different between the aquarium water after 1 week and new water that is causing this problem. My corals have been growing (even though RTN comes and goes) very fast that I had to use more and more kh/ca supplement to stabilize their concentrations.

[TheClark]

It sure is possible that something is deficient and that the water changes are replenishing whatever that is.  Of course water changes alone can barely keep up.  You could do a triton test when they are RTNing, and another when they are doing well.  It is an 80 dollar experiment but it mail nail down the cause.

 

Let us know what your experiments yield.

[Higher Thinking]

How are you supplementing? Do you test your parameters before and after a water change? What are they? And be more specific than saying that your parameters "are fine." What are the specifics? That information might help answers some questions.

 

It's also my understanding that RTN is not something that just starts and stops.  It's called "rapid" because it can wipe out the entire piece within a day or so.

[Smann]

It sure is possible that something is deficient and that the water changes are replenishing whatever that is.  Of course water changes alone can barely keep up.  You could do a triton test when they are RTNing, and another when they are doing well.  It is an 80 dollar experiment but it mail nail down the cause.

 

Let us know what your experiments yield.

 

Not a bad idea, I have done two Triton water test and am happy with the test

[ChrisQ]

How are you supplementing? Do you test your parameters before and after a water change? What are they? And be more specific than saying that your parameters "are fine." What are the specifics? That information might help answers some questions.

 

It's also my understanding that RTN is not something that just starts and stops.  It's called "rapid" because it can wipe out the entire piece within a day or so.

100% this..

 

My first thought is... way too many tweaks too fast, too many variables, again, slow down buddy, slow and steady wins the race

 

2nd thought is, what salt mix are you using? Are you using the same salt mix every time? If you're changing out 1/3 of your water volume every 7 days it would be wise to 1st test the big 3 (ALK,CA,MG) in your display, then test your freshly mixed water (preferably, seasoned at least 12hrs) to make certain the parameters match up, it's not a question of if, but when you'll come across a bad batch of salt that yield undesirable parameters. This alone can possibly be the cause. (Large swings)

 

As far as the Phosguard, I myself had a hard time using it at first because of the possible release of Aluminium, since then i went out and read the studies done on it and realized it's impossible to become soluble in a harmful way at the Ph we run our tanks at, i'm sure i'm not using the right terminology/and or have missed some details, but i feel safe at this point, but i'm no pro  

 

One thing i found out the hard for sure is...

 

Stripping the water column of nutrients too fast with Proguard,Gfo, etc.. sps will get very annoyed resulting in STN,RTN, Bleaching and "browning out" We all learn to hate Phos and Nitrate with a passion, but it's essential food.

[Peng]

How are you supplementing? Do you test your parameters before and after a water change? What are they? And be more specific than saying that your parameters "are fine." What are the specifics? That information might help answers some questions.

 

It's also my understanding that RTN is not something that just starts and stops.  It's called "rapid" because it can wipe out the entire piece within a day or so.

 

100% this..

 

My first thought is... way too many tweaks too fast, too many variables, again, slow down buddy, slow and steady wins the race

 

2nd thought is, what salt mix are you using? Are you using the same salt mix every time? If you're changing out 1/3 of your water volume every 7 days it would be wise to 1st test the big 3 (ALK,CA,MG) in your display, then test your freshly mixed water (preferably, seasoned at least 12hrs) to make certain the parameters match up, it's not a question of if, but when you'll come across a bad batch of salt that yield undesirable parameters. This alone can possibly be the cause. (Large swings)

 

As far as the Phosguard, I myself had a hard time using it at first because of the possible release of Aluminium, since then i went out and read the studies done on it and realized it's impossible to become soluble in a harmful way at the Ph we run our tanks at, i'm sure i'm not using the right terminology/and or have missed some details, but i feel safe at this point, but i'm no pro

 

One thing i found out the hard for sure is...

 

Stripping the water column of nutrients too fast with Proguard,Gfo, etc.. sps will get very annoyed resulting in STN,RTN, Bleaching and "browning out" We all learn to hate Phos and Nitrate with a passion, but it's essential food.

 

Sorry for the late reply. I have pull off the phosguard for a week now.

 

As for alk:

---> Salt used: Kent, test result (freshly made water): 9.4 

---> Aquarium water before 30% water change: 9.2

---> Aquarium water 30mins after 30% water change: 9.0

 

There is little difference caused by water change. I use red sea for KH, but kent reef salt mix says that the freshly made water should be 11. I don't know if my red sea test is inaccurate.

About 3 weeks ago the alk stays around 7.5, increased slowly to around 9 by using more reef builder for the doser.

 

 

Burning Tips:

 

Sorry I said RTN. It's not... No one except 2 monti caps died. All the "infected" corals display one phenomenon: skin (slime) drys out. It's like when corals are healthy you can see the skin is very slimy and smooth but in my case the infected ones have dry skin, so thin that almost a bit further you can say this coral is gone.

 

The acroporas infected are A. Tenius. Their blue tips are burned off. Algae started to grow and usually the coral would grow back. It's like this: grow back, blue color intensity increase, burned off, grow back, burned off, grow back.....

This cycle has been going on for more than half a year. (But they did get significantly bigger.)

 

Sometimes other corals also have burned tips, sometimes it's just these 2 separated small A. Tenius colonies and monti caps. 

 

I use D120 for lighting. 12" from the water surface, 100% intensity both channels.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Peng

[Peng]

Update:

 

Corals are slowly recovering. I haven't used PhosGuard ever since. Hopefully it's not comming back again. Corals seemed really happy with more nutrients, so as algae.