Lowman Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I'm sure the store in question knows about this thread already and they can post here if they want, it is a public forum. If the LFS didn't practice questionable business, then they wouldn't have to worry about having their livelihood messed with. Just my $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topher Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 the internet has made complaint and such common place. Angie's list makes it customer/consumer makes a coment on services/products received and only the provider can coment/ give an explaination. a possible model!? you can not say buy my product/services but you have no right to tell others about the experience. word of mouth is the best advertisment. buyer beware/ informed. getting into this hobby there is some blind trust in the "profesional"(LFS, and employees). if people are honest and provide decent service and back up thier product. there should be no issue. this thread is a freindly reminder to buyer and "seller" alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grassi Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I can certainly see both sides of the coin here, each have valid points. I think there should be a feed back form, rather than opening a thread. Create a template the customer can fill in either positive or negative, short and sweet, with about 500 characters to explain, maybe some places to rate certain aspects on a 1-10 scale. Store also has X amount of characters to respond. End of story, everyone can see, but only the two related parties can respond. Thus, it eliminates the drama, word of mouth is still able to work, and each party can contribute their point of view on the experience. Thoughts? This will solve the problem. At now we have to manually delete posts that are not from the buyer or seller (with all the complains and nazi accusations). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsonmfg Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 I couldn't agree with you guys more, this hobby SHOULDN'T be about stores that take advantage of people. If people are more informed then they can make better choices on where to spend their money. Where you spend your money and what you spend it on will dictate which shops stay in business and the animals that are available. I chose not to name the shop because it's not all about the shop but the interaction between the shops and the customers, primarily the new hobbyists that want that cool bright colored items but doesn't know any better than to take the advice from the LFS. Now I've traveled all over the country and stopped in quite a few stores in my travels to see what other stores were like and found that the NW really does have some of the nicest shops out there and most of the people involved in them do take great care of the animals they sell as well as being honest and taking care of their customers. I hope threads like this will help people think about what they buy and to make informed decisions when spending their money at a store. If you know what you are buying, the care it needs and honestly are able to provide that care then you are on the right track to being successful in this hobby. If you see something that catches your eye but you aren't sure about it do some research before you buy it, don't just take the word of some salesman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R-3 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I feel these threads are pointless flaming if both sides cant be heard and shouldnt be allowed even if names are not given you know they are and your messing with someone's living this just dosnt seem right to me and sad that folks here are ok with it. I gotta side with Jody. Two sides to every story. I always laugh when these threads come up because everyone says "we dont want it to turn into a bash thread" but they always do. All the internet is anymore is just a big ol' *****fest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsonmfg Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 I have absolutely no problem "messing with someones livelihood" if they choose to practice business this way... We are in fact dealing with live animals here. These aren't used cars. I've run my own company successfully for over 11 years, and while I'm in a completely different industry I do believe in doing honest business and really have no concern for anyones who chooses to do dishonest business. I haven't named the store in question, nor do I need to. What I have in fact done is hopefully made even one person think to question the sales people and do a little research of their own before spend their hard earned money only to help support poor business practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topher Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I feel these threads are pointless flaming if both sides cant be heard and shouldnt be allowed even if names are not given you know they are and your messing with someone's living this just dosnt seem right to me and sad that folks here are ok with it. Jody, first let me say that i don't think i have baught anything from you only because of lack of opertunity. your reputation and corals are known quite well here. i can see your point if you feel that the original post was made up but as it is stated, it is a warning not a flame. i am in sales myself and welcome the research of the company and products we provide due our reputation and proven service. you can never make all your customers happy (but it should be a great majority). it is a fact and the customers you want, yes i said want, understand this as well and take negitive statments with a grain of salt. keep up the good work Jody along with all the sponcers we've come to trust and utilize for our addiction! if it was not an adiction,we would not be pasoinate about all this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trautman Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 i still dont understand why there shouldnt be an open list of businesses that have proven time and time again to not care about their customers, or their livestock. while i do agree that many businesses are attacked over uncommon things/ maybe even out of spite, i still think that awareness should be spread about these companies. there is nothing immoral or illegal abut this, as long as the terms of ranking are fair. we need bureau of better businesses specifically for this industry. it will not only point customers in the right direction, but it will also make companies improve their standards if they start loosing business. as a body that has a great deal of knowledge, expertise and quality, we should be doing this. i really cannot understand why so many brush off animal cruelty (and wild animals just to rub salt in the wound lol), with a "eh, they lost my business". Capitalism improves products according to the consumer base. we are the consumer base: so lets have some standards that are more than just personal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowman Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Not sure where the bashfest is Ryan. Well stated Trautman. Isn't part of "education" knowing who, and what to avoid when making buying decisions? Isn't that why we started this site, to help educate people and share good and bad experiences? Shouldn't that include getting scammed by some unscrupulous store? We are quick to post when a store does a good job and no one *****es about that, but as soon as someone says something negative about one, look out, it starts a **** storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trautman Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 i mean as long as it isnt libel, and it is a fair, supported opinion... i mean heck, there should be a website that isnt just in oregon, there should be a NPO that rates and rewards different stores throughout the US, then they get a sticker that says "proudly supported by PNWMAS" or whatever. so then when it isnt seen, customers at least get a warning. think of it like restaurant ratings heck if we just had a "yearly review" where we gives the ins and out of EACH and every store (at least in portland metro), then that might be worth it. once again nothing illegal or immoral about it. in fact we should feel obliged to do this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evansbr Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I would bring the issue to the owner of the store. they may not even be aware that this is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gill Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoobtoSalt Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I agree Bob' date=' I think part of the mission of this forum should be to guide newbies and help them learn from our mistakes. Being "burned" by a LFS or another member for that matter should not be part of the hobby and should not be tolerated.[/quote'] I guess I should have clarifed my statement. But honestly I've been in the same boat as others even from a LFS that I would still shop at if I didn't have a shop within 5 mins from my house....LOL I bought my LTA last year and knew nothing about them but thought that the color on it was amazing looking. It was teal and white..DOH! Well I nursed it back to health and shopped at that store for many months after that knowing afterwards that I bought a bleached nem. I trusted him at the time and I made a poor judgement when I bought it. This shop constantly gets great feedback and he is a great guy and would deal with him again. This is not the same shop as mentioned at the begining of this thread btw.. If nobody else wants to own up and say what LFS it is and you really have no clue shoot me a message. It doesn't take much to figure out which owner has been away from his business for awhile on medical leave. He has a few people that work for him that are stand up people but others that are not so much. Being in retail I know it's hard sometimes to get good people to work for you. Thanks for bringing this thread up as it does need to be addressed. As far as I know his shop is one of the few that actually sells the dyed ones anyways. I've also seen them sell at his shop for much more than what you were quoted...(laugh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisW Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 That's kinda what I was thinking. What if....this employee is just a bad seed? What if he thinks he's doing the owner a favor by trying to "up" the sales, even against the owners own business philosophy. What if the owner found out about this and fired said employee on the spot? Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akambience Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 In my opinion, it is the duty and obligation of all business owners to hire people who represent the ideology of their business. Bad seed or not, I think the employee represents the business when the owner is not around. If I'm going to spend money on this hobby (which I definitely am..), I want to spend it with someone who is honest and genuine rather than someone who believes that it's okay to lie to or deceive me. This forum has been by far the most educational resource on reefing. The amount of knowledge and experience shared is outstanding. For me, the advice given here holds more weight than some from the LFS's. I can fully understand not wanting any drama and store bashing; however, if someone on this forum was ill-treated or deceived by a LFS, I personally would like to know about it. A legitimate bad experience of another is education for us new guys. I think that Arsonmfg's post was a great leaning experience. I had no idea that you could dye Anemone, and my wife and I very well could have bought one unknowingly. We now know that this kind of thing occurs in some LFS's and we shall be more cautious. If this forum wants to hold some kind of feedback system that sharoleb described, then let's model it after the e-bay or amazon feedback system. Each LFS sponsor gets to be rated by members on a star[fish] system and is given a chance to respond to feedback. One could upload a photo of what was bought, perhaps what was paid for it, and any feedback s/he has on the product, specimen or business. I don't appreciate being misled or lied to. Particularly for a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisW Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 In my opinion, it is the duty and obligation of all business owners to hire people who represent the ideology of their business. Bad seed or not, I think the employee represents the business when the owner is not around. If I'm going to spend money on this hobby (which I definitely am..), I want to spend it with someone who is honest and genuine rather than someone who believes that it's okay to lie to or deceive me. This forum has been by far the most educational resource on reefing. The amount of knowledge and experience shared is outstanding. For me, the advice given here holds more weight than some from the LFS's. I can fully understand not wanting any drama and store bashing; however, if someone on this forum was ill-treated or deceived by a LFS, I personally would like to know about it. A legitimate bad experience of another is education for us new guys. I think that Arsonmfg's post was a great leaning experience. I had no idea that you could dye Anemone, and my wife and I very well could have bought one unknowingly. We now know that this kind of thing occurs in some LFS's and we shall be more cautious. If this forum wants to hold some kind of feedback system that sharoleb described, then let's model it after the e-bay or amazon feedback system. Each LFS sponsor gets to be rated by members on a star[fish] system and is given a chance to respond to feedback. One could upload a photo of what was bought, perhaps what was paid for it, and any feedback s/he has on the product, specimen or business. I don't appreciate being misled or lied to. Particularly for a profit. Ya, you're right. It was a pretty sneaky trick. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grassi Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I should extend my last reply. Sharole idea didn't come out of the blue. We (the BOD) thought about something like that before. We are lucky to have a few bod members, officers and mods/admins who really know how to keep something like our forum up and running. We think that adding features like this would make the maintenance and upgrade tasks more complicated. Unfortunately we are attacked by hackers every once in a while, and we need to keep the forum up to date (software). More features means more complications and issues when upgrading. For this reason we let this kind of topics to the members. We set up rules to avoid that a feedback thread would just zig-zag and ending being a rant. When things goes out of control we edit, delete, close threads to keep our little and happy community under control. Sometimes I read that for being successful in this hobby you need a lot of money and time. Not true. You need 2 qualities: - being a nerd - being a smart nerd You don't need to be a rocket scientist to sort out which store is giving great customer service. There are stores in our forum that only receive positive feedback. You really need someone telling you a name? You are not smart enough to use the advanced search feature and look around? You need a name? You are not smart enough to visit a store, look around and ask yourself if you would be happy to have a tank like the ones they show you as your personal tank? One of the first rules in this hobby is to not buy something that you don't know. Search before. Never go to a store just to buy something. For instance, I'm not a fish guy, so when buying a fish I have to trust the store. I have my own list of trusted sellers. I can go to my fav store and buy with blinded eyes. I don't need to read that A sold to B a tang for his/her 10 gallon tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.R Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Sometimes I read that for being successful in this hobby you need a lot of money and time. Not true. You need 2 qualities: - being a nerd - being a smart nerd Wait a mintue...you calling me a NERD!? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 - being a nerd - being a smart nerd I think I'm more of a geek than a nerd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topher Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Wait a mintue...you calling me a NERD!? lol he may have been calling you a smart nerd(scratch) i just don't know you well enough to judge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.R Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 he may have been calling you a smart nerd(scratch) i just don't know you well enough to judge I honestly didnt know there was a difference lol now I cant get it out of my head. NEEEEEERRRRRRRDDDDSSSSSSS... I'm gonna have to go Netflix the movie now.. And back on topic. As Grassi has pointed out this thread is totally legal as long as the store is not named. If the OP wants to name him/it the appropriate place to do so is the feedback thread and then of course only the involved parties can comment. I think the thread does a service to the newer people in the hobby because it will teach them to research or to not immediately trust all vendors. As in life trust needs to be earned and just because some one has a store front doesn't mean they will do completely honest business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackaninny Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 There was no transaction so there was no loss for the OP. Under these circumstances posting the name of the shop is not warranted and if I would expect the moderators to remove the thread. Many good points have been brought up in this particular thread but that is not the normal course this type of thread usually takes and thus the forums rules on such a topic. The problem with allowing unchecked calling out of shady business practices or even the baseless 'xxx is the best!' is: 1) Drives sponsors and potential sponsors away from out site 2) Gives our membership as a whole a bad reputation as complainers or bomb throwers 3) We are a community within the larger hobby community and we should be able to work together to further our hobby - public calling out threads do NOT achieve that goal - the LFS should see this board as a resource to further the participation in the hobby and they should feel comfortable referring people to it (sponsorship or not). 4) Sometimes people are wrong and make mistakes - throwing around accusations can hurt a reputation immensely - try to work it out in person or in a private conversation FIRST so you have all the facts straight on BOTH sides of the story. For me I didn't know people dyed nems so this thread would have been just as effective if it said,in general, 'Did you know about the practice of dyeing nems? It's a good idea to ask that specific question to the LFS owner and see how they guarantee a purchase to ensure you're not getting one.' People read that and start asking the question at the LFS enough the owner will either fess-up, stop the practice or buying from suppliers that do, or drive away customers if they won't stand behind their products. People who didn't know about the practice now have more knowledge about the hobby and will be better consumers. Mission accomplished and no drama was required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.