Nancymacc Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 It has now been 7 days since I moved all livestock to the new tank. My little RBTA went immediately under a shelf in the rocks when I put him in the new tank and has stayed there since. I can see him if I shine a light there. So he is in the dark, I am unable to feed it. It is deflated but not inside out, it's foot seems to be attached to the underside of the rock. Prior to the move he was looking good and eating well. I want to move the rock and get him out of there. I have given him plenty of time to settle into a good place. Where he is now is lightless and pretty much foodless and I am sure he will die if I leave him there. I know I should leave him be to find his own place but geesh how long can he stay there??? Help me!! Do you think I should move the rocks and take him out of his hiding place??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhowe Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 I'd move the rock. I had one commit suicide doing the same thing about a year ago. I waited to long to try and get him in the light and he was toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 I would not move it, its already stressed and moving it would just cause more stress. If you are worried, try moving the rocks, so it can get light. I really wouldn't be that concerned though. These animals have lived for millions of years without needing people to move them to a perfect spot. Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gill Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 They can live a very long time without light. I had a little one living in a Rena canister filter for at least 3 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkBirkett Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Mine would move all the time. It will come out and find a location it likes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhowe Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 It has now been 7 days since I moved all livestock to the new tank. My little RBTA went immediately under a shelf in the rocks when I put him in the new tank and has stayed there since. I can see him if I shine a light there. So he is in the dark, I am unable to feed it. It is deflated but not inside out, it's foot seems to be attached to the underside of the rock. Prior to the move he was looking good and eating well. I want to move the rock and get him out of there. I have given him plenty of time to settle into a good place. Where he is now is lightless and pretty much foodless and I am sure he will die if I leave him there. I know I should leave him be to find his own place but geesh how long can he stay there??? Help me!! Do you think I should move the rocks and take him out of his hiding place??? I know what your talking about. This is the same thing mine did after a tank change. Mine seriously unattached itself and died after I left it to move by itself from under the rock. It seriously seemed like a suicide. I wouldn't poke around at it. Something might be wrong with your water quality. Test the water and see if that may be the problem. It might be a catch-22, dead if you move it, dead if you don't. Remember they have lived millions of years in the ocean, not millions of years in somebodies fish tank. It's hard to compare the two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 I know what your talking about. This is the same thing mine did after a tank change. Mine seriously unattached itself and died after I left it to move by itself from under the rock. It seriously seemed like a suicide. I wouldn't poke around at it. Something might be wrong with your water quality. Test the water and see if that may be the problem. It might be a catch-22' date=' dead if you move it, dead if you don't. Remember they have lived millions of years in the ocean, not millions of years in somebodies fish tank. It's hard to compare the two[/quote'] I don't know why being in someones fish tank would make an anemone lose its survival instincts. Moving it will cause nothing but problems. Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhowe Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 I'm talking about water quality and lighting. We try to mimic the ocean, setting up a reef tank. Sometimes we are off on parameters. Killing and stressing livestock by accident. Sometimes when livestock acts weird there actually is something wrong (water quality, lighting). Not just hope and pray that nature will take its course in a closed environment. Also you are right moving it may cause problems, not moving it may cause problems. Thats why I said the situation may be a catch-22. Looking hindsight I would have done more, like flipping the rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 I'm talking about water quality and lighting. We try to mimic the ocean' date=' setting up a reef tank. Sometimes we are off on parameters. Killing and stressing livestock by accident. Sometimes when livestock acts weird there actually is something wrong (water quality, lighting). Not just hope and pray that nature will take its course in a closed environment.[/quote'] You brought up a good point. The tank could be going through a mini cycle which is stressing the anemone making it hide. What is the amonnia, nitrite and nitrate levels? Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancymacc Posted May 8, 2011 Author Share Posted May 8, 2011 Parameters are good, zeros across the board. It is the nurse in me that wants to do something I think. I can't bear the thought that is might be suffering and that I did nothing, LOL. I could in fact turn the rock on it's side and not actually move the neme.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Anemones are actually one of the more difficult creatures we try to keep. On average they have a very short life span in our aquariums, especially if they are not mature tanks. If it's been 7 days and it isn't searching for light yet then there is very likely some other problem stressing it out. I would first check the parameters (I know you stated that you did so however I would check them again to see if I missed something) and then if that is good then I might try to increase the water flow some in the area it is. (I doubt there is too much flow since it would have moved already) You also might try to spot feed some mysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancymacc Posted May 8, 2011 Author Share Posted May 8, 2011 Well I did go ahead and check water this morning again, sigh....When I checked Thursday everything was great. I guess the tank is having a cycle due to the move. I have nitrates AND nitrites.....[language filter]. I need to get them down fast so the plan is a water change and go grab some Amquel Plus....So how big a water change can I safely do. I was planning on 5g today but have upped that to 10g. I will get more water brewing and do more later today if necessary. I don't understand why the tank would cycle after moving the the life and rock. Nothing was out of water for more than 5 - 10 minutes and all the rock that was out was kept covered with wet towels...I did scrub some hair algae off some rock, would that cause the cycle. Everyone keep me in you thoughts and pray that I don't lose anything. I will be busy trying to fix this mess. Any suggestions or tips would be greated appreciated!! Okay going to get some Purigen as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trautman Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 i would also suggest some stability by seaclear, that stuff is excellent as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Well I did go ahead and check water this morning again, sigh....When I checked Thursday everything was great. I guess the tank is having a cycle due to the move. I have nitrates AND nitrites.....[language filter]. I need to get them down fast so the plan is a water change and go grab some Amquel Plus....So how big a water change can I safely do. I was planning on 5g today but have upped that to 10g. I will get more water brewing and do more later today if necessary. I don't understand why the tank would cycle after moving the the life and rock. Nothing was out of water for more than 5 - 10 minutes and all the rock that was out was kept covered with wet towels...I did scrub some hair algae off some rock, would that cause the cycle. Everyone keep me in you thoughts and pray that I don't lose anything. I will be busy trying to fix this mess. Any suggestions or tips would be greated appreciated!! Okay going to get some Purigen as well. You can usually do a 50% to 75% water change without any problems which is what I would probably do. FWIW, I prefer to let the tank find a balance on it's own and would not use anything like amquel. People often misunderstand what it means when the tank is cycling. In simple terms it is the act of the tank finding a new biological balance whenever something interrupts or changes it. Because of this changing tanks will "ALWAYS" cause a tank cycle. Some people may claim otherwise because the cycle is often mild enough that it is hardly measurable however it still needs to find a new biological balance. Simply moving the rocks around also interrupts the biological process and will cause a tank to cycle but it is usually not enough to cause problems. The exception is when you stir up the sand after it's been there a long time since it can build up some really nasty stuff under it (It can actually be toxic to humans). Just adding a fish to the tank also causes a cycle since it increases the bio load which is why they should only be added one or two at a time. Did you smell anything sulfurous when you changed the tanks? If so then the sand was probably loaded with that nasty stuff and would cause the nitrates to go up fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald525 Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 I agree that you should leave it alone. Moving an obviously stressed out anemone isn't going to help anything anyway. It's not like it can't get out of where it goes. Nhowe yours didn't commit suicide it was just obviously stressed and died. Similar to a fish that is stressed that goes and hides in the rock and then eventually dies. Every tank move I have had my anemone has done that and hid and eventually split. I did lose one but it didn't die because it got stuck in a rock. It died because the stress of the move was too much for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancymacc Posted May 8, 2011 Author Share Posted May 8, 2011 Actually with regard to the sand I did nto take the old sand, I had cycled the new tank for 3 weeks with new sand that I innoculated. Perhaps, even though I added more rock I lost the level of biological I had with leaving behind the old sand. I did not have a great deal but still as you say a change is a change and we are dealing with a delicate balance. I will skip the Amquel but use the Purigen to help remove organics while the tank re-establishes its balance. Thanks for all the great input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald525 Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Great input Rick. I agree, even if you do things perfectly, if you move things around there's always a little bit of a cycle and disrupts the natural balance and puts stress on the system. And you're right even small changes can make a huge difference and the smaller the system the more dramatic the change. I sadly killed another fish because I stirred the sand up so much that it caused a huge nitrite spike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Well I did go ahead and check water this morning again, sigh....When I checked Thursday everything was great. I guess the tank is having a cycle due to the move. I have nitrates AND nitrites.....[language filter]. I need to get them down fast so the plan is a water change and go grab some Amquel Plus....So how big a water change can I safely do. I was planning on 5g today but have upped that to 10g. I will get more water brewing and do more later today if necessary. I don't understand why the tank would cycle after moving the the life and rock. Nothing was out of water for more than 5 - 10 minutes and all the rock that was out was kept covered with wet towels...I did scrub some hair algae off some rock, would that cause the cycle. Everyone keep me in you thoughts and pray that I don't lose anything. I will be busy trying to fix this mess. Any suggestions or tips would be greated appreciated!! Okay going to get some Purigen as well. How big is your tank? If your tank is anything, but a nano 10 gallons isn't going to be a lot. I do 10 gallon water changes every week in my 55 gallon. I recommend doing at least a 50% water change. How high are the nitrites, nitrates and you never said anything about ammonia, did your tests show any ammonia? Flip the rock the anemone is in and make sure it isn't already dead, if the anemone dies it could really mess up your tank further. I don't know if amquel + will help with your high nitrites and nitrates. It is my understanding that amquel + binds ammonia keeping it from going through the nitrate cycle, but it wont actively remove nitrite and nitrate, I could be totally wrong about that though. I think Trautman ment Seachem stability not seaclear stability. Seachem stability might help more than the amquel +, but water changes are going to be your best friend right now. Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trautman Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 agreed, a large water change is your best friend right now. a few thing that need to be kept in mind with this sort of water change is that a) make sure the temp and salinity are the same b) put in the water a little at a time c) if you are using kent, DO NOT mix and introduce right away, let it sit for a while (6-12hrs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVPaquatics Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 c) if you are using kent' date=' DO NOT mix and introduce right away, let it sit for a while (6-12hrs)[/quote'] Is kent a fast dissolver? I haven't had issues with my IO/Reef crystals but I use a 1200gph pump and BURLEY airpump...but with my maintenance business I could always use faster... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancymacc Posted May 8, 2011 Author Share Posted May 8, 2011 I will be doing as big a water changed throughout the day as my RO filter allows.....I will start with 10g as that is pretty much what is mixed at this time. I will continue to make and change throughout the day. I will also check on the neme. And yes I have ammonia as well .25 ppm. Going to be a long day LOL. Thanks to everyone for input. Also my tank is 50g with a 10g sump and about 60lb of rock and a 1-2" aragonite sand bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonas Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Everything should be ok.Stay calm and change water.Make sure the salt is mixed well.I would change your sock every 2 days also.Your nem should be fine,If anything he might split.Make sure your skimmer is doing work also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewisriverfisherman Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I would suggest putting in some bacteria in your tank(nite out or microbactor) to help with eating the nitrates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancymacc Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 Okay did all the water changes. Turned the rock on its side and the neme looks fine, not fully expanded. I added some Stability and Prime. Today I put some Purigen in the sump. I will check parameters tonight and change more water as needed, I have another 10gallons mixing as we speak. Fish all look fine, softies are all looking good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancymacc Posted May 14, 2011 Author Share Posted May 14, 2011 Update on the tak and RBTA. I have been changing water regularly all week and now Ammonia, Nitrites are back to zero, still a bit of nitrate, so I am continuing to do 10 - 15 g water changes every other day. Have Chemi-Pure Elite and Purigen in the sump. I have been changing the filter sock every other day as well. Fish, and corals seem very happy. Polyps well extended, fish active and eating well. The RBTA is holding his own for now. He is attached to the side of a curved rock at the bottom of the tank that gets minimal light and low flow. He has moved a bit within the same area but has not completly hidden again. He is not fully inflating during the day but is not completely flaccid either. He took some shrimp the other day as well. Funny too my clown is hanging around him now, but has not made contact that I can see. He is shooing off the Chromis' if they venture near. So think good thoughts that the RBTA will survive my noobishness...I am doing everything I can to keep him going!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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