Collecting your own livestock in Oregon.

[AquaticEngineer]

Found some great photos of the place I'm going collecting this month using google maps and thought I'd share.

 

I'll be looking for more anemones and different fish as well as other inverts like some more porcelain crabs. I may take home some urchins and starfish if I find some I haven't seen before. What I'm really hoping for is to find cup corals or other things that are usually only found below the tidal zone since there will be a -1.7 tide when I'm there.

 

These pictures are of an area called Maxwell Point in Oceanside, OR. Just off shore are the large rock islands that make up the Three Arch Rocks National Wildlife Refuge.

 

 

 

 

 

[stylaster]

great looking tide pools you should be able to find a lot of stuff!

[MarkBirkett]

If I sell my 210 I might want one of your cold water tanks. Takes less room and it would be fun collecting.

[AquaticEngineer]

Let me know, I got that white one still for sale. There is a guy from Rainier who wants to come and check it out this week, and another guy in Seattle that is trying to talk me in to driving it up to him.

 

I'll take lots of pictures when I'm there and of what we find

[ShaunMonahan]

I was just there for spring break during last months lowest tide. This is a very unique place and collecting their should be really good. I thought I would share a few...

I had some help finding some: anemones, a few shrimp, a cucumber, pink coraline algae, various other alga, brittle stars, an orange sun star and many types of copepods and other small shrimp-like crustaceans in the exposed tide pools.

 

This place should be ripe for the pick'ins, and it's where I would go if I was looking to collect my own cold water specimens.

[AquaticEngineer]

So you were able to find brittle stars, and shrimp there??!! Those are two of the critters I am after for sure, Thanks for the tip

 

I'm also hoping to find more medium sized rocks that have clams bored into them, the clams create some awesome holes in the rock and they are the coolest pieces I have in my tank by far. Turns the rock into almost a swiss cheese look after erosion has done its fair share,

[ShaunMonahan]

We did find them under the sea weed.

 

Man, those rocks are INSANELY HEAVY! I was only able to turn over a few smaller rocks. These must be solid granite.

[AquaticEngineer]

Oh man, I as sooo stoked now I just checked what the low tides were on 3-22 when ShaunMonahan and family went and it was a -.7

 

It will be a whole FOOT lower than that on the 20th!!!!

[AquaticEngineer]

We did find them under the sea weed.

 

Man, those rocks are INSANELY HEAVY! I was only able to turn over a few smaller rocks. These must be solid granite.

 

Yeah most of the rock on our coastline is solid granite, thats why the coldwater tanks cant really rely on bacterial waste breakdown like tropical reefs. There just isnt the same surface area available.

[ShaunMonahan]

AE, what does the pH of your tank run without having a natural buffer like CaCO3 or photosynthesis?

[steveweast]

Shaun,

 

You are correct in that low pH is a problem with running a cold tank. They tend to run in 7.7 - 7.9 range.....which is on the low side....especially if you are trying to keep critters that do lay down calcium (Orange cup corals, clams, oysters, etc). Low pH hinders calcification. Chronic low pH will kill these guys off. I run a CO2 scrubber on the intake of my skimmer which bumps my pH up by .3. I tend to run in the 8.1 -8.2 range until the media exhausts.

[reef165]

Have you looked to see if that place is ok to collect at? since I read you saying something about a preserve it may not be ok for you to take anything from the tidepools there. Let us know when you find out and go! Would love to see the stuff you get!!!

[reef165]

Sorry it read " National Wildlife Refuge" so you might want to look into that.

[AquaticEngineer]

Sorry it read " National Wildlife Refuge" so you might want to look into that.

 

Yeah it is totally legal to collect invertebrates there but only as long as its not done between May 1st and August 31st which is breeding season for local birds, and that only applies to Three Arch Rocks not Maxwell Point.

 

It lists it all out on the ODFW Marine Regs, they are kinda like my bible now, lol

 

From Page 104 under Special Regulations for This Zone:

Other Closures:

1. Pyramid Rock (Rogue Reef)

2. Three Arch Rocks (Oceanside)

• Closed to take of marine fish, shellfish and marine invertebrates, from 1000 feet around

and including Pyramid Rock May 1-Aug. 31.

• Closed to boats 500 feet around the main rocks May 1-Sept. 15 by authority of the

Oregon State Marine Board. See map on page 99.

 

As for PH buffering, I dont have anything that lays down any calcium skeleton yet for corals. I do have several starfish and hermits, but I have about 60lbs or base rock that I used in the false bottom lower filtration area, and I feed my starfish snails so there is at any given time at least a 1/2 lb of empty snail shells in the tank.

[ShaunMonahan]

Shaun,

I run a CO2 scrubber on the intake of my skimmer which bumps my pH up by .3. I tend to run in the 8.1 -8.2 range until the media exhausts.

 

Steve,

 

Have you ever dripped Ca(OH)2+H2O to offset your CO2? I would think this would have several benefits:

 

• Raise pH
  
• Precipitate PO4
  
• Add Ca
  
• Polish water
  

 

Also, what is the Alk/dKH? And does this also have issues being maintained due to lack of natural buffers?

 

Lastly, why not use aragonite under you pebbles and create a DSB with an anoxic layer to dissolve the aragonte to buffer the sea water?

 

Thanks Steve, and nice to hear from you.

[Michael7979]

Hey Shaun can you put this in English for us sceintically challanged, please?

 

Have you ever dripped Ca(OH)2+H2O to offset your CO2? I would think this would have several benefits:

[grassi]

Hey Shaun can you put this in English for us sceintically challanged, please?

 

Have you ever dripped Ca(OH)2+H2O to offset your CO2? I would think this would have several benefits:

 

Kalkwasser

[Michael7979]

Kalkwasser

 

Thanks Alex.

I guess I need to brush up on my scientific tables. But I assumed it was Kalk.

 

Also I know newer reefers/members might not have known it either.

[JasonH]

Wow - great pictures. I don't have a cold water tank, but it looks like it would be a blast to go collecting. I bet kids would love that - I know my daughter would.

 

Be sure to post lots of pics of the trip.

[ShaunMonahan]

Sure,

 

The Benefits:

* Raise pH

* Precipitate PO4 (falls out of solution to be skimmed out)

* Adds Ca

* Polish water

 

Ca(OH)2 is Calcium Hydroxide. Aka: lime, kalkwasser. This has a pH of 12 when mixed with RO/DI water, and by dripping this kalkwasser into your tank, you'll get the above stated benefits for your reef tank.

 

I was wondering why not use this method for cold water reefs. The only problem I can see is lack of evaporation with the cold water systems. With our warm water/high light reef tanks, we have a lot of evaporation and we have to replenish with freshwater daily to keep salinity down. If all your make-up water is dripped into the tank/sump using the kalkwasser method you get the above benefits.

 

This is the method we all used before Calcium reactors and (2) part dosing to replenish Ca.

 

Raising you tanks pH to 8.3-8.4 with Ca rich water will cause your corals to calcify at a much higher rate - they will grow faster. If you throw in the added benefit of phosphate removal (phosphate blocks calcification), your are going to maximize your stony coral growth.

[grassi]

I think that you got the point: the low evaporation. You need to drip a good amount of kalk for the benefits you were mentioning.

I used kalk alone for a couple of years and it worked great. I think corals grow faster for the po4 precipitation more than the 500ppm of ca in the tank.

The only problem I experienced was too much coralline algae and the fact that dripping kalk is not easy and you can't control the effects of what you are doing: if there isn't enough co2 in the tank when you are dripping, you will release carbonate ions, with a lot of precipitation. You can add vinegar to avoid this, but this makes the hole setup even more complicated to manage

[AquaticEngineer]

I think evap would be a problem, my lobster tank has lids on it and I have not had to add a drop of water due to evaporation in 6 months.

[steveweast]

Steve,

 

Have you ever dripped Ca(OH)2+H2O to offset your CO2? I would think this would have several benefits:

 

• Raise pH
  
• Precipitate PO4
  
• Add Ca
  
• Polish water
  

 

Also, what is the Alk/dKH? And does this also have issues being maintained due to lack of natural buffers?

 

Lastly, why not use aragonite under you pebbles and create a DSB with an anoxic layer to dissolve the aragonte to buffer the sea water?

 

Thanks Steve, and nice to hear from you.

 

In a cold tank, evaporation is very low from the lack of lights and heating. Dripping kalk would be OK for the short term....but, I feel that the Ca/alk/pH balance over time might get out of balance. There is really very little uptake of Ca in these tanks. It's no where near what goes on in a warm reef tank. Except for some very small blanophyllia (and a little coralline).....there's nothing depositing Ca in my system.

 

The removal of PO4 through kalk would be minuscule compared what is added through the massive, automated multiple times per day feedings. Large water changes and GFO are still required regardless if kalk is used or not.

 

It is also less maintenance for me to just set up a CO2 scrubber than a Kalk reactor. Mixing up and manually adding kalk is a deal killer for me. I need a more.... set it....and forget it....solution. I keep my alk at 9dkh.

 

As for the aragonite.....yes, it could be used.....but, not in the way you mentioned. I keep a natural Puget Sound (thin layer) rubble bottom. It simulates much of the Sound well.....and allows me to vigorously stir up the bottom to remove uneaten food, debris, detritus, etc. A DSB in a highly fed cold tank really doesn't work that well. I do drip the effluent from my NO3 reactors through aragonite though.

 

The problem is that folks tend to think that running a cold tank as just the same as running a tropical reef tank with a lower temp. It really is more kin to running an extremely stocked and overfed fish only system. A DSB would do little to effectively reduce NO3 in either system (especially at 50 F).

[ShaunMonahan]

Steve,

 

I appreciate your lengthy explanations to my questions, and I am sure your knowledge shared here will help some individuals interested in maintaining cold water tanks.

 

I know that you only use your lighting briefly for cleaning, feeding and viewing your tank.... Have you done anything with LED's yet? I am curious, as they do not produce any UV and sounds like they may be a perfect option over your system.

[steveweast]

I do use LED's. I use two Ecoxotic fixtures over the tank.

 

http://www.marinedepot.com/Ecoxotic_Panorama_LED_System_w_Accessory_Pack_Linkable_LED_Light_Fixtures-Ecoxotic-XX06060-FILTFILDLK-vi.html