Considering no longer being a member of this forum

[Emerald525]

Okay, I'm going to try again. This thread was deleted because of some of the comments made so please if you post be respectful. I would like to see your words.

 

Please know there are many of you that I care about and respect so I am very torn about my decision but I also do not want to feel like this again.

 

I have debated back and forth about posting this. Beth told me not to because she is the nonconfrontational type. However, I felt like if I did not say anything that would be the same as saying it is okay. I also don't think many of you would understand how deeply the words posted in this thread hurt me. Beth doesn't even understand.

 

Friday there was a thread started about Illegal immigration and I posted that I was not happy about this thread. I feel the issue of illegal immigration is a problem with no great solution. I also feel there are always underlying racial undertones to the discussion. It always becomes an us versus them scenario which makes no sense since unless you are native american, all our ancestors are immigrants. Some of us in this forum are immigrants now. I was also deeply disturbed because of the negative path this discussion always takes. When people hear the word illegal immigration the picture that comes to mind in most people's minds (including my own) is brown skinned individuals from Mexico. Even though there are illegal immigrants from Canada, cuba, Russia, China, South america. I have even met someone from Scotland who was here illegaly. The difference is some of these people have white skinned speak English and look no different than the majority of the people in this forum. It is easier to be afraid and to judge when we feel a person is so different from us. (They are not so different from us). Many come out of fear for their lives. I have seen parents of young children deported and families destroyed and their sad faces also came to mind with this discussion.

 

Then the discussion usually spirals down about fears about how white people are going to be the minority and what the world is going to become. Part of me feels like shouting "Welcome to my world." I do understand the fear to some degree but I assure you, fear based on the color of one's skin is useless. Viewing people as being very different from you can also be dangerous. I find getting to know the individual works best. I have worked with many different people from many different backrounds and I assure you, I do not show favoritism because someone's skin happens to be dark like mine and I don't hold any bias against you because your skin is a different color.

 

I never fully introduced myself. I am female, well educated professonal who works with children and very much loves her job because of the joy, innocence and honesty that children bring to the world. I happen to also be Latina, Mexican American, or whatever label you want to place on me. I happen to have darker skin, brown eyes and am female. My whole life I have been judged for the color of my skin. I have been followed in stores. I have been treated rudely even here in Portland simply because of the color of my skin. There are some people in this forum who I considered friends who are so different than me in their political thoughts and I think this is wonderful that a common interest such as the saltwater hobby can unite people from so many backrounds. I have always felt welcomed in this forum with open arms and people have gone out of their way to help. I often forget that I am a minority until those days when I am followed in a store by a security guard or pulled over for no reason other than the color of my skin or I read a thread where people are posting negative things about minorities. People who I have met or have been in my home posting even when I politely stated that I was not happy with the thred.. It made me feel like "Wow, if they knew I was Mexican would they even want me in their homes."

 

I will never understand why my "[language filter] is your avatar" thread was so offensive but everyone was okay with this thread about illegal immigration which I find far more destructive. There was even a board member posting in this thread and not one moderator had a problem with the thread. If you have to preface a statement "I'm not a racist, but..." you probably are a racist and you probably should not complete the sentence. If you are going to look up a link about how there are going to be more minority newborns than white newborns and then say "not that it matters", it obviously does.

 

 

This thread is not to preach about politics or which is better republican, democrat, independent or no government at all for some of you. This thread is not to spark debate about illegal immigration. I really think it is wise to not bring politics or religion into this forum because they are such hot button items and tend to be divisive topics. I also would never want to censor someone because I believe in free speech which is why I didn't ask anyone to close the thread.. All I am is asking is to watch what you say out of respect for me or others when it truly causes them emotional pain. I do want to thank those who did refrain from saying anything because I know it is difficult to do sometimes. L I also wanted to thank those who deleted their posts simply out of respect or realizing that nothing good was going to come out of the post. I just felt the need to say that I was brought to tears by reading the responses in this thread. This surprised me because I feel in some ways I am very hardened but as corny as it sounds, this place feels like a family. Dysfunctional at times but a family just the same. I cried when I heard about twogirls untimely death and was sad for days feeling like I lost a friend. I was angry and sad when Frank's rings were stolen and overjoyed when they were returned.

 

Right now, however, I feel like an outsider. I know most of the people in this forum probably didn't see the thread. Many may not understand why it was hurtful but I feel when you are saying things about minorities , I personally feel attacked and felt like someone kicked me right in the gut. Some may wonder why I'm letting a few ignorant comments affect me this way. Part of it was the feeling that nobody seemed to care or was outraged and I felt very much alone.

 

I am considering no longer being a member because of this thread and the postings. I know for many it may seem an overreaction. Right now the feelings are still raw so I am going to wait and see how I feel after a few more days. As much as I care about and appreciate many of you in this forum, I also do not want to be brought to tears and have many painful experiences brought back to me like this. It is simply not worth it. I'm not sure what I'm going to do but I just wanted to remind people to think before they post.

[Emerald525]

It seems my original thread and the thread I was referring to are both deleted. This was not my intention as I think people should have the right to speak.

[dsoz]

I understand completely where you are coming from. The school where I work is 60% Hispanic. Being a straight, white, male makes me a minority. But it does not make me homophobic, racist, or sexist. I try to tell the students that we are all humans, not races.

 

I did not see the post this weekend about immigration because I was not on the forum much so I don't know the theme of the thread, but I can imagine. It makes me sad to hear that people still discriminate based on "race." I thought that we were beyond that as a society. You are right when you say that the best way to get beyond racism is to get to know the people you didn't know before. It is difficult to discriminate against someone when you know them, and you know that he/she is just a person, just like you.

 

Please reconsider pulling your membership. How are you going to change oppinions if you don't interact.

 

BTW, the avatar question has to do with the language, not the subject. This is supposed to be a "family friendly" site, and [language filter] is not something that I want my kids to be exposed to any more than they already are at public school. That is the only reason I was offended by it. I would also be offended by a thread that was racest/sexist/homophobic/germophobic or arachnophobic (OK, maybe I don't like spiders a little bit, especially if they are the marine type in zoanthids...)

 

dsoz

[CA2OR]

Re: Considering no longer being a member of this forum

 

I too totally understand...I avoided that thread because I have learned that topics like that are very flamable....like politics and religion....a lot of people have firm beliefs or feelings regarding these things and often times it is better to avoid the discussion. You cannot run around insulting others beliefs, because for whatever reasons they are justified and typically you have no idea what experiences they may have had that led them to those conclusions.

 

If it makes you feel any better I have been considering not being part of this club for quite some time now......I have very few reasons to stay and several to leave. In fact if it wasn't for the group buy grow out on zoa's I would have been gone already....and that is starting to not be enough to stay for either. Many feel I bring nothing but drama to this site and don't have anything to offer here....but then I remember that I don't care about what others think about me. They will get over it....I already have

 

Still undecided though. But I have been taking steps in the direction of leaving. I am sure several members here would love to see me go....far more than those that would want me to stay....which is why I don't go to meets and most likely won't start now. It won't be long now that I will move on unless something here changes....which I don't see happening as we seem to fight change here as much as possible.....those that don't adapt with time get left behind....

 

Either way you decide to go just take commfort in the fact that there are several other clubs to consider and gain information and resources from and may be more tollerant of disagreements and personal beliefs. I met 3 people in the last 2 days that were looking for reefing clubs to join...none were told to join here....I did mention here but also mentioned that I am considering leaving and why....

 

You just gotta remember people are ignorant, you will encounter this anywhere you go....from racism to sexism to religion and everything inbetween....look at how blindly we trust our government when they do very little to pursuade you to believe that they are being honest and not taking advantage of us. Look how many voted for George Bush for a second term....I know....low blow right?

 

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

[bill]

I'm sorry to hear this, but as you and Beth know I'm vietnamese and I went through times where people look us down because we're asain or different skin color, but I told my self if I walk straight and keep my head up work hard and pay my taxes I don't give a f what people got to say or think about me, you and Beth are always welcome at my place.

 

Westside Aquarium

 

Tim

[Michael7979]

Every group member needs to remember to "THINK" about what they post before they hit the submit button.

 

We have this happen about once every year or two. Where something is posted and/or someone gets offended by a post. If everyone would just take the extra second to think before hitting the "submit" button alot of this "flare-ups" could be avoided, (aleast I think).

 

Just remember not everyone thinks exactly like you do!

 

Kim hope you have had a chance to cool down and that you have decided to stick around and stay a member!

[Emerald525]

I too totally understand...I avoided that thread because I have learned that topics like that are very flamable....like politics and religion....a lot of people have firm beliefs or feelings regarding these things and often times it is better to avoid the discussion. You cannot run around insulting others beliefs, because for whatever reasons they are justified and typically you have no idea what experiences they may have had that led them to those conclusions.

 

 

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

Ca2OR, I was not going to call out anyone who posted in the thread or started the thread. However for you to post in this thread and say you avoided it, is simply not true. I am confused by your comments that you avoided the thread because you in fact posted twice and after my comment that I do not like the thread on many different levels.

 

Once was to post the "This thread is worthless without pictures" and secondly some comment about how you were from Southern California and implied that there were a lot of latinos there.

[Emerald525]

I'm sorry to hear this, but as you and Beth know I'm vietnamese and I went through times where people look us down because we're asain or different skin color, but I told my self if I walk straight and keep my head up work hard and pay my taxes I don't give a f what people got to say or think about me, you and Beth are always welcome at my place.

 

Westside Aquarium

 

Tim

 

I hear you Tim and you are right for the most part I don't care what some people say or think but like I said this forum felt to me like home and felt to me like a family. Beth can attest I am rarely brought to tears over anything but I opened myself up to the people here which made me also more open to getting hurt.

[reefnjunkie]

in reply

 

See how slow I type Kim, in the time it took my to Compose the following you have replied twice-DOH!

 

anyway here was the reply before the 2 you threw up.

 

Hey Kim, sorry to read the title of your thread-which makes me ask rhetorically if the thread you referenced was the one in which I posted a link and was titled 'Anyone catch this?' or at least I think that was the title.

You PM'd me with "how you felt" and we exchanged a few mails.

If it is that thread, I posted it early A.M. before leaving for the day basically, and came home to a few mails yours being one.

 

My thread was titled accordingly since I don't watch that channel I had not heard what I had viewed hence the title of the thread.

The thread got into the whole "opinionated" replies you referred to and I did not care to let it continue, especially since some of the replies-topic related or not came from ignorant people-IMO- one person primarily but he and I will never see eye to eye which is why I chose to close the thread. I see know that the thread was closed.

I was not meaning to be racist/sexist or whatever and as I let you know my feelings on any color, race, sex, mammal, reptile, or whatever regarding the "laws of our land"

 

Anyway as I mentioned or agreed with you, this forum is a forum for reefing, regardless if there is a category "out of bounds" or not and you wont be seeing me post those "out of bounds threads/links" anymore. As a matter of fact its better for me and a majority/minority of the forum that I frequent here less-this was decided last week after you and I exchanged.

 

I'm sure nobody noticed but for me to make 2 replies all weekend, well that's a record.

If/when I decide to move on, it will go unnoticed, and un advertised. I had been back into reefing for at least a year before I stumbled across this forum-

 

Sorry to those of you who may have felt my impact to be negative to this site, if in fact it has came across that way-never my intent, but it is what it is.

 

So I am starting to ramble which means its a good time to close. Good luck in your choice and I want to publicly apologize if I was the catalyst to your decision.

 

Hope that reads ok, its a little bouncy

 

I will still need to be part of the SPS GOC because I am greedy but that's obvious.

 

Later folks

[Algae]

I can empathize with your feelings over this. Unfortunately (maybe fortunately) I cannot go back and see the thread. There are a few people in this club that have beliefs and politics that are diametrically opposed to mine. Strangely enough some of these people have become people that I can call friend.

I truly enjoy seeing people of different backgrounds and histories posting. If I wanted an "Old White Fart Male Club" I'd turn off the computer and stare at myself! You are right that we are a dysfunctional family, but we are still a family.

 

PS: I love Guatemala, have spent time in the country, have friends living there and would love to find a way to spend 6 months a year in Guat.

The Zoa fighting thing is weird, however (nutty).

[theJenchild]

I would first like to pre-face that I am writing on behalf of myself, and not on behalf of the board or the officers as I have not discussed this reply with them. Although I'm quite sure that they feel the same way.

 

Kim, I am sorry that anything said on this forum has offended or hurt you. No one should be made to feel that way.

 

Everyone, this is a family forum about saltwater aquariums and matters relating to them. We are a tight knit, small, local community where racism, sexism, cruelty, or discrimination of any kind will not be tolerated. Threads with these types of content will be immediately locked and/or deleted with consequences for the poster as well as people who have replied with hateful content. I suggest that you consider taking these types of conversations or thoughts to forums that allow their presence, as this one does not.

 

The out of bounds forum is a place for people to share things that are important in their lives with others that they have formed relationships with. Contrary to the forum's description, this is not "anything goes." This forum is subject to all of the rules of the club including no discriminatory, inflammatory, or sexually explicit postings. Please do not abuse this out of bounds space. If you have a puppy, gardening, Tv, movie, car question.....post it here. If you have a little johnny joke that would make my mother blush or a comment that could be interpreted as discriminatory.....take it somewhere else. I thank all of you for being adults about all of this and respecting what this club is about.

[CA2OR]

Re: Considering no longer being a member of this forum

 

I too totally understand...I avoided that thread because I have learned that topics like that are very flamable....like politics and religion....a lot

 

 

 

Ca2OR, I was not going to call out anyone who posted in the thread or started the thread. However for you to post in this thread and say you avoided it, is simply not true. I am confused by your comments that you avoided the thread because you in fact posted twice and after my comment that I do not like the thread on many different levels.

 

 

 

Once was to post the "This thread is worthless without pictures" and secondly some comment about how you were from Southern California and implied that there were a lot of latinos there.

Maybe what I should have said was I avoided "engaging" in the cnversation....the comment about pics was to be a smartars...the comment about So Cal and such was only to give an idea that several people of all races know what it feels like to be a minority as people think it is "cool" to pink on, degrade, or otherwise insult "minorities" when all of us, regardless of race, would/could be a minority. As stated all of us have our own beliefs for our own reasons, I myself see both pro's in cons in all situations including immigrants and so on from my experiences...but one thing that has always stood true is that I don't knock anyone from any background pursueing happiness either within their borders or others. I do acknowledge impacts of such decisions again both pro's and con's.

 

And that is no "implication" there...there ARE a lot of latino's there, and Native American's, African American's, those of Asian decent, European decent, and everyother decent or mixture there of there....dude there are a LOT more people there then here for sure...and almost any other state you can think of. And yes it irritates me to have people tell me that I should learn another language to communicate in the country I was born in, but that is the world we are turning into...it is getting smaller and smaller, but the reason it bothers me is because when I was in other countries it sure didn't feel like they had any interest in learning English and if I wanted something I had to learn how to say it. I also get irritated when I hear people from other countries slam our country when they moved here...if you don't like it go home....but at the same time I don't get mad when I see people flying mexican flags on their cars as I believe in having pride in yourself and your heritage.

 

I have seen over and over people that are born here fail just as those that have migrated here legally and illegally. I have worked side by side with some that weren't totally legal here and considered them friends....also worked with some that I couldn't stand.

 

So what I should have said here and in that thread, and will say now...is don't try to pull me into a conversation with racial or prejiduce undertones as I will most likely not be in agreement with you....I am not racist nor prejiduce against anybody....and I am not "proud of it" because I don't think you are supossed to feel "proud" of something that we as humans are supposed to do or feel....with the exception of liars, and for some reasons homeless 20 or 30 somethings piss me off, point being is I typically do not tollerate conversations like these as the ignorant stand points or perspectives, in my perception of things, aren't worth the time and thought to entertain. So I understand why you or anyone else would find offence in threads such as that one. I apologize at the comment regarding pic's...pathetic attempt to make light or defuse the topic....had no place....but do not mistake me for racist, prejiduce, or ignorant as I am not.

 

To some ignorance is bliss....to me ignorance is no excuse.

 

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

[grassi]

As our secretary said I believe this forum is not the place where to post any kind of content that is against our mission.

But words were written and words are powerful and they stayed there for long.

We can't have somebody sitting there all the day and night to moderate all the threads.

I'm just asking to everybody to think before to post: keep your ideals, but think if what you are writing is a manner that can be helpful for our mission and our club and it is not offensive for the rest of us.

 

 

I was lucky in my life to meet good people and great thinkers. My graduation dissertation was about the neo-communitarism, so I had the pleasure to study some of the most amazing minds that discussed a lot of sensible manners.

Between our loved corals reading I would like to suggest a book.

The author is Amitai Etzioni, Professor of International Relations at the George Washington University and the book is "The monochrome society".

Some of you will love his writings because his conclusions are neither “liberal” nor “conservative”.

Hope this helps

[andy]

I hope you stick around, I think you're a great addition to the club.

 

My other thoughts on the topic: http://www.pnwmas.org/forums/showthread.php?p=175675#post175675

[Ocean In a Box]

We can't have somebody sitting there all the day and night to moderate all the threads.

Unfortunately this is what is needed in a public forum. Thats why we need mods. And maybe a few more. Not to babysit, but perhaps when needed lock down a thread or delete until the board can review content. Far too often and I know 1st hand postings can be misinterpreted real fast and spiral out of control. Before you know it, feelings get hurt, friendships are lost, and in some cases businesses can be ruined. IMO this board does need moderators to step in and pull the plug fast as threads start to get off subject or as Jen said out of text of what the website represents. I have many times wondered why certain threads are allowed to stay active.

[dsoz]

Thats why we need mods. And maybe a few more.

 

I thought that there were 6 different mods, each numbered. However, I have only seen 2 or 3 of them active.

 

dsoz

[jgf86123]

I have nothing to do all day long, I can be a mod if more are needed.

 

I will have more to say once my thoughts are collected and I am a bit cooled down, Kim, we talked the day it happened and hopefully we're still friends, well as much friends as you can be without actually meeting someone LOL.

 

An don't forget, we'll be at your house this weekend, either Saturday or Sunday, so be prepared to face the craziness that is me!!!!!!!!

[CCR]

Didn't see the weekend thread. In the infamous works of Rodney King. Can't we all just get along. What is crap like this even doing in this forum. It's not cute. It's not funny. Has no place here. Not on a "topic list"

 

It is not right to discuss matters that are offensive in nature to being a human. Use another place if you must. Not here. And after you do. Please stay out.

 

Just more for the people to read. To question why this FISH CLUB is here with this kind of crab.

[andy]

To question why this FISH CLUB is here with this kind of crab.

 

'cuz we love us our inverts, too! (whistle)

[USCG CWO]

I thought that there were 6 different mods, each numbered. However, I have only seen 2 or 3 of them active.

 

There are six of us mods. I believe two of them moderate under Mod 1 and Mod 2. The rest of us mod under our user names. The BOD also has mod powers.

 

It is hard to police every post that is started on this forum and as such there are "report post" buttons in every thread. It is the yellow diamond with exclamation point under the users name. If you come across a post you find offensive or disturbing please report it. One of us mods or a Board of Director will take it for action.

 

Shane

[racefan]

Emerald525, Please don't let an ignorant few run you off.

 

I am a moderator on a classic Chevy truck board. The way it's done over there is it's a hard fast rule NO POLITICS, if a thread even starts going that way it's either locked and/or deleted. The way they do it is each area has it's own moderators they are responsible for and watch over. They assigned what ever area you spend most time in.For example I spend a lot of time in the Gen Disc, forum so I mod that one & it's sub areas. Then there is a "Team Leader" forum that only shows up to mods where they can post to each other. As jgf86123 said I can volunteer if needed.

[reef165]

WAW, I'm just glad she has a voice and dosnt get deleated and the ones she has accused of being racist dont have a chance to defend themselves, there posts just seem to disapear.

[Guest Moderator1]

I didn't close this thread, but thought about it all day. So I applaud the mod who closed it!!!! It is sad that Emerald is considering leaving the forum. I understand why she would want to at this point. We need to readjust our focus on what is important here, reefing and education, not politcal banter.

 

Nuff said