spectra Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 It sounds like a great idea and yes you need to charge some kind of admission. The room will cost something plus the water/salt and also the tanks to house the corals in. I can not remember what the CFM cost last year but the offset to the price was all the raffle stuff they had. They did have ones that you paid for but there were also free ones that you got with your paid enterance fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael7979 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Another name idea....... Portland Area Reefers Symposium Or PARS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JManrow Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Another name idea....... Portland Area Reefers Symposium Or PARS A possible modification might be: Portland Area Reefkeepers Symposium Or PARS ...to avoid any confusion with groups like NORML (whistle):p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePremiumAquarium Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 But the confusion could bring such a fun time to our get together LOL Garrett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwcoralfarm Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 like a few others am not sure if I am ready to setup a booth and depending on cost, not sure if I could make it worth my while. On the other hand, I think it is a great idea. Things like this unfortunately take years before they are big enough and word has spread enough to attract a large crowd. I think in an effort to offset the cost maybe interested stores could offer a discount coupon to their buyers (for the entry fee) with an in store sale of a certain amount to drum in instore sales and reduce the pressure of the regular local reefers entry fees. Also would be great if we could get local greenhouse companies (to help offset the cost)to setup a booth (just a thought, for us considering that option) Not sure if it would be worth it to them though. As well as local companies like Sunlight Supply and other businesses who can profit from this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidalsculpin Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 How about Northwest Sustainable Reefkeeping Convention? I know it sounds kind of "green chic" but hey, isn't that what it's all about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwcoralfarm Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Ha ha, don't get me wrong, these are great ideas. I just fear that by the time your done the name will be 2 paragraphs long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwcoralfarm Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 How about Northwest Coral Farmers Convention. Throw the word convention in there and you get all kinds of peoples interest. I might benefit from that one though(laugh) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 ah....you just like it because it sounds like your name.(whistle) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwcoralfarm Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 ah....you just like it because it sounds like your name.(whistle) I didn't honestly think about it until after I started to type it, but it makes sense that I would think it is a good name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I am not disputing that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveweast Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 OK.....I have a few questions..... 1) What makes you think that it is now time for an event like this to be successful in the Portland area when it has failed in the recent past ? not to mention that... at that time.... there was a well known name (Tyree) and a booming economy with many more folks in the hobby. 2) What makes you think that a small local event might be of interest to major vendors when they are curtailing their advertising expenses and focusing on major events like MACNA, IMAC, MAX, Baymac and reefaplooza ? 3) How are you planning to even come close to covering all the expenses of such an event when you can only draw from a tiny metro area ? The Portland area is only 1 million people....tiny compared to the Seattle area, the Bay area, or Southern Cal (15 million). 4) Do you honestly think that you'll draw from any outside area like Seattle ? When CFM was here, I only knew of a couple of Seattle folks who came down. They have their own frag events and would not come down for Tyree let alone for a bunch of local no names......how many of you drive up for their much larger events ? ...... how do you think they would feel about driving down for a much smaller event than the ones in their own backyard ? 5) What makes you think that there is any benefit for a local fish to participate ? these events compete with LFS. No LFS in their right mind is going expend the time and money to basically set up a small version of their store in a booth......and they get no advertising benefit (like a corporation might) since everyone knows where their store is anyway. The only ones who would benefit would be the garage operations.....who aren't as well known.......and the booth fee will be an obstacle for them. So......by my questions.....you can tell that I think that this is a lame idea that makes no economic sense. If you want to pursue somrthing like this, perhaps you should start small with a low to no cost venue.....no admission.....and try to build from there......which is what Reefaplooza did. Until you can build a following and show that you have some support and a following, you are a high risk to any vendor who must allocate his advertising dollars carefully in these dark economic times. If some of you are really interested in this concept, you should be attending these other events to see first hand how they function....like MACNA, Reefaplooza, IMAC, MAX, or Baymac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveweast Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 A few more thoughts..... This past June, I decided to fly down to San Jose and attend the BAYMAC convention. It was on the small side....with maybe 15 vendors plus local club booths from all over the bay area......plus about 8 speakers. I was surprised to see only about 100- 150 total attend. This past July, I decided to fly down to Long Beach to attend IMAC.....which is a mini version of MACNA. It was extremely slick with many vendors large and small.....and many speakers. There were many booths with frags for sale. The convention filled three decks of the Queen Mary. The event was well supported by vendors like Seachem, Reef Nutrition, Quality Marine, and JenDub.....but, the people attending were in short supply. I'd be surprised if they got 1000 over the three days. On the final day when the raffles were held....I was walking around the raffle tables to see what was donated. There was everything fromm epoxy to chillers. They had boxes in front of each raffle item.....you just dropped your $1 raffle ticket into the box that represented the item that you wanted to win. Most of the raffle boxes were empty!!! With $10 of tickets, I could have "won" skimmers, chillers, and lights!!! In my conversations with the vendors, they were all lamenting that it was this way at all the events.....and that they were cutting back dramatically on donated items and being more careful in which event thay attend. Teco chillers was there.....and since I needed a better chiller for my cold system, I bought one there. I got a great show deal....but, I was their only sale. I'm really thankful though that there wasn't a 1hp chiller on the raffle table.....which I could have "won" for a few tickets.....they only had small chillers that were being raffled off. The moral is.....these economic times are devastating to our hobby.....and it isn't going to get better anytime soon. Any event (an especially a new event) should be set up with that in mind. Have your first CFM in a backyard or a store.....somewhere free....don't worry about vendor support.....build a following......start small and eventually graduate to the big boy pants. That's how Reefaplooza started.....and this year... it is being held at the Orange County fairgrounds (no more backyards for them). I hope to attend MACNA next month.....I'm really curious to see the economic impact on the largest event in the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael7979 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 All great pionts Steve! I know where you are going from with the "start small and grow as needed" thinking. I assumed that this is what Issac had in mind when he started this thread. You have to do what the people will support. But you do need to start somewhere. And if renting a small hall is the only place you can hold the event, then I think asking for a small cover fee to help cover it is not asking to much. I wouldn't want the vendors to not want to come because of an extra exspense that the hobbyists/buyers could help offset. I know the economy is in the toilet but all these events started somewhere with someones ideas. They just need to be followed thru with and see where they end up! Just my thoughts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 I will do my best to answer your questions. OK.....I have a few questions..... 1) What makes you think that it is now time for an event like this to be successful in the Portland area when it has failed in the recent past ? not to mention that... at that time.... there was a well known name (Tyree) and a booming economy with many more folks in the hobby. The NW needs an event like this. I would consider the past efforts by Steve Tyree a Success. I attended the first year and noticed a significant growth by the second year. I am also interested in having someone well known like Steve Tyree participate. 2) What makes you think that a small local event might be of interest to major vendors when they are curtailing their advertising expenses and focusing on major events like MACNA, IMAC, MAX, Baymac and reefaplooza ? Major vendors may be something we add down the road but I would not expect any for the first couple years. 3) How are you planning to even come close to covering all the expenses of such an event when you can only draw from a tiny metro area ? The Portland area is only 1 million people....tiny compared to the Seattle area, the Bay area, or Southern Cal (15 million). This event would be marketed Throughout the NW including Seattle. Also even if the first year turn out was slim it is still worth doing. This is something that could be great for the local community. 4) Do you honestly think that you'll draw from any outside area like Seattle ? When CFM was here, I only knew of a couple of Seattle folks who came down. They have their own frag events and would not come down for Tyree let alone for a bunch of local no names......how many of you drive up for their much larger events ? ...... how do you think they would feel about driving down for a much smaller event than the ones in their own backyard ? I would imagine that if marketed properly a handful of Seattle residence would make the treck. Again even if the first year turn out is not extreme I would consider it a success just because we made it happen. There is always room for growth. 5) What makes you think that there is any benefit for a local fish to participate ? these events compete with LFS. No LFS in their right mind is going expend the time and money to basically set up a small version of their store in a booth......and they get no advertising benefit (like a corporation might) since everyone knows where their store is anyway. The only ones who would benefit would be the garage operations.....who aren't as well known.......and the booth fee will be an obstacle for them. I think this event would be more for local coral farmers but LFS's could benefit too. LFS may gain a few new customers. New customers are of great value to any type of business. So......by my questions.....you can tell that I think that this is a lame idea that makes no economic sense. If you want to pursue somrthing like this, perhaps you should start small with a low to no cost venue.....no admission.....and try to build from there......which is what Reefaplooza did. Until you can build a following and show that you have some support and a following, you are a high risk to any vendor who must allocate his advertising dollars carefully in these dark economic times. If some of you are really interested in this concept, you should be attending these other events to see first hand how they function....like MACNA, Reefaplooza, IMAC, MAX, or Baymac. We will enjoy our small and LAME event. You gotta start some where! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 I started this thread to gauge support for such an event. For the most part it seems like people like the idea. I think despite the obvious road blocks it could be great for the local reef scene. I just don't understand where the negativity and animosity comes from. This could be a fun and cool thing that doesn't have to break the bank. It was really expensive for the CFM to come to the NW because they had to haul a bunch of stuff up here. We could have a low cost and fun event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 So, how much money will you be donating to get our event off the ground? We really appreciate the support! A few more thoughts..... This past June, I decided to fly down to San Jose and attend the BAYMAC convention. It was on the small side....with maybe 15 vendors plus local club booths from all over the bay area......plus about 8 speakers. I was surprised to see only about 100- 150 total attend. This past July, I decided to fly down to Long Beach to attend IMAC.....which is a mini version of MACNA. It was extremely slick with many vendors large and small.....and many speakers. There were many booths with frags for sale. The convention filled three decks of the Queen Mary. The event was well supported by vendors like Seachem, Reef Nutrition, Quality Marine, and JenDub.....but, the people attending were in short supply. I'd be surprised if they got 1000 over the three days. On the final day when the raffles were held....I was walking around the raffle tables to see what was donated. There was everything fromm epoxy to chillers. They had boxes in front of each raffle item.....you just dropped your $1 raffle ticket into the box that represented the item that you wanted to win. Most of the raffle boxes were empty!!! With $10 of tickets, I could have "won" skimmers, chillers, and lights!!! In my conversations with the vendors, they were all lamenting that it was this way at all the events.....and that they were cutting back dramatically on donated items and being more careful in which event thay attend. Teco chillers was there.....and since I needed a better chiller for my cold system, I bought one there. I got a great show deal....but, I was their only sale. I'm really thankful though that there wasn't a 1hp chiller on the raffle table.....which I could have "won" for a few tickets.....they only had small chillers that were being raffled off. The moral is.....these economic times are devastating to our hobby.....and it isn't going to get better anytime soon. Any event (an especially a new event) should be set up with that in mind. Have your first CFM in a backyard or a store.....somewhere free....don't worry about vendor support.....build a following......start small and eventually graduate to the big boy pants. That's how Reefaplooza started.....and this year... it is being held at the Orange County fairgrounds (no more backyards for them). I hope to attend MACNA next month.....I'm really curious to see the economic impact on the largest event in the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePremiumAquarium Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Steve you have excellent points! That being said, I still want a local event. I want it to be small and I want all of PNWMAS and any body else that we can get to come to be there. I want a very low cost booth, even free would be nice. It would be cool to have this event in someones garage or shop but as Michael stated a small hall or hotel convention room would also work quite well and probbably wouldn't be too much. I think that every farmer/frag vendor that comes should bring their own setup! I think this would work far better and be far cheaper. If they couldn't set up with their own stuff than I don't know what to tell them lol. We have some much stuff laying around as hobbyists that even those that don't have a small garage operation should be able to come up with a tank a pump, some water and some light. This could just be a ton of fun and I don't want anyone to get discouraged. The more encouragment and hype that we can give this thing the better. No one should expect a profit but rather to merely have a great day as a hobbiest interacting with other hobbiests and those with similar operations. I have changed my status from maybe setting up a booth to yes please I would like to and will try my best to make sure that I have the day(s) free Who has a garage or open space with a few electrical plugs??? LOL Isaac, get on it! Garrett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePremiumAquarium Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Oh and if you need some help, give me a call or send me a PM. I wouldn't mind contributing my genius! Garrett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 Good to hear Garrett! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveweast Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I started this thread to gauge support for such an event. For the most part it seems like people like the idea. I think despite the obvious road blocks it could be great for the local reef scene. I just don't understand where the negativity and animosity comes from. This could be a fun and cool thing that doesn't have to break the bank. It was really expensive for the CFM to come to the NW because they had to haul a bunch of stuff up here. We could have a low cost and fun event. If your goal is to be a CFM lite right off the bat....then you're doomed. CFM was a dismal financial disaster. It was commercially poorly attended.....and sales were below expectations. Let me tell you....I've never met someone as frugal as Tyree. He put on that event on a shoestring and it still never saw black ink. If your goal is to organize a local frag swap/sale that might someday grow into something more....then OK....that will work. I don't care either way....I'm not frag trader or buyer. I don't have a dog in the fight.... I just have insight and experience in the trade that most folks don't have from my relationships with retailers, wholesalers,speakers, and trade show promoters. Before you start promoting the benefits to the LFS (the real ones....not the garage operations), you might want to talk to them about how they feel about it. There's a reason why the main stores......Upscales, Soutas, and Fantaseas.....were not present at CFM. I don't view my take on this as "negative"....just constructive criticism where there's been nothing but pollyana coolaid drinking. A dose of reality and a broader view of the world is needed here. I think your assessment of how deep this local market is overestimated. What you're trying to do has been been done throughout the country. Learn from those folks what has worked and what has not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theJenchild Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I'd be interested in attending an event like this. Although I understand the financial considerations, I also believe that participation is voluntary and those that would like to be involved likely understand that the goal would be more to promote aquaculture and local trade as opposed to straight profit. Either way, I'd love to see something like this happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwcoralfarm Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Yes all good points from everyone. I think that a good point to remember is that, while yes we are in an obvious economic slope, and yes it has made times harder for everyone. However there is still money out there being spent. A friend of mine races Hydro plane boats. I usually go with him to be his pit crew and just to hang out. I was surprised to see that they let anyone sign a waiver and take a boat out for a drive, in fact they strongly encourage it. They use this as a means to drum up business for their hobby and to get new people hooked. So my point being that this kind of an event is exactly what is needed, albeit it needs to be done right, it should still be done. Instead of sitting on the back burner and hoping that we make it through this, let's do something to bring in new people and show people what it is all about. I have been asked before "why do you pay so much for algae" while the person was staring down at my Tyree sunset Monti. JUst to make a simple point, this shows a real ignorance to what it is we love and do. In my closing argument, real simply, if there is money to made out there then we should do everything we can to get everyone we can involved in the hobby and I think a Symposium, exhibition, market, show, trade, convention, is an excellent way to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveweast Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 So, how much money will you be donating to get our event off the ground? We really appreciate the support! My financial support of this club is probably second to none. I personally 100% financed two summer BBQ's so it could be a free event ( $1000 donation each BBQ) and gave the club a $500 donation at its start up. I would happily donate further for a worthy cause. I just want to quickly summerize my suggestion..... Try to use Reefapalooza as a model....not CFM. http://www.reefapalooza.org/ RAP was born from a meager backyard frag swap annual event that was geared as a fun, non profit event that had minimal, if any, expenses. If it tried to jump a few steps on the ladder, it would not be what it is today. Keep the short term goals acheivable......while still keeping in mind the ultimate goal. Trying to immediately be something more will just end in disaster. Good luck with your project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowman Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Why don't we see if the Seattle group would want to get in on something. Maybe if we pool our resources we can have a nice show/. Maybe one year have it in Portland, the next in Seattle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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