MReef20

Hi all, I'm struggling a bit with my tank being out of balance, and I think that it has lead to a case of dinos 😭 I pretty much test weekly, and until lately all parameters (except for phosphate) were pretty stable and in normal ranges.  This included nitrates, which had been running about 1-1.5 ppm.  Since the phosphate had been running really high (about .5ppm), so I started dosing Tropic Marin Elmi-Phos to help, and it worked like a champ.  I had originally bought NoPox, but didn't end up dosing it as I wasn't having both a nitrate and phosphate issue. 

Some additional background/equipment can be found in a previous thread: https://www.pnwmas.org/forums/topic/48280-a-few-general-parameter-questions/?tab=comments#comment-469896

I've managed to keep my phosphate levels to about .19 or lower, dosing the TM about once a week.  However, a couple of weeks ago, I noticed that I started getting algae film on the glass quicker, and started seeing what looked like turf algae on the rocks and a few areas of cyano.  Around the same time, I noticed the nitrates tanked - I figured that the algae was using up all of the nitrates as fuel.  Since then, I've taken a fairly "aggressive" approach regarding manual removal, including scrubbing rocks (outside of the tank if I could, and others in the tank).  I even turned off the skimmer for a few days, wondering if the skimmer was removing too many nutrients and started adding some microbacter 7 at the same time.

Well, I'm starting the think that I've transitioned from the algae/cyano phase to potentially the algae/dinos phase.  Whatever the case - it's not pretty!  Here are the most recent test results from Sunday:

Ammonia: 0

Nitrate: less than .1 ppm

Phosphate: 19 ppm (Hanna)

Alk: 7.7 (8.5 is the target)

Calc: 435

Mag: 1320

pH: 7.96

Here's what's strange, but also probably not - just related to the lack of nitrates.  Some corals (stylo, birdsnest, anacropora, montis, etc.) and my clam look absolutely fine/happy.  However, all of my Milli's are extremely washed out, and my RBTA has been ticked off as well.  Ricordea and hairy mushroom (and really zoas for that matter) don't look great.  Like I said, I think this is directly attributable to lack of nitrates, but what surprises me is that the Milli's are so mad.  Inverts all seem ok.

I have chaeto, but it's struggled since day 1, probably being out-competed for nutrients.  I mostly feed frozen food or freeze dried shirmp fortified with vitamins, selcon, and garlic, and occasionally feed some reef chili (with a touch of reef roids).

Thoughts on my best course of action?  Start dosing nitrates?  How do I make sure that the nitrates don't just add more fuel to the algae fire?

Thanks!

That's wild!

Always love floating canopies - really helps draw the focus to the tank.  Looks great!

Looks like they're having a blast!  Those are some sweet pieces - where'd you pick those up?

On 10/18/2020 at 9:17 PM, pdxmonkeyboy said:

I would be most worried about your phos numbers.  I would not be carbon dosing as that will drop nitrates as well and yours are low enough. 

New rocks leach phosphate. There is a conctratiin gradient between the water and rocks and the rocks will leach into the water until they are exhausted.  I have about 400lbs of rock in my system and have gone through 4 bottles of lanthium chloride in 5 months. 

Given how quick, easy and effective lanthium is i really have no idea why people run gfo.  Its a PIA.  Its messy, there is no way to tell when its exhausted, it clogs, and if you use too much it can kill everything. 

Awesome!! 

Great thoughts.  I had ordered some Tropic Marin Elimi-Phos and dosed it for the first time tonight - tested before using the Hanna = .52, wanted to decrease it about .1 ppm at a time.  Just tested = .38.

I plan to dose tomorrow and the next day or until I get below .1...then I'll start to track and see how often I need to dose to keep down.  Will continue all other maint. practices.

13 hours ago, Gumby said:

I would if you decide to tweak numbers try to go for one at a time. It is easier on your tank and easier to find what works best and what doesn't. For your PH for a test run see if you can open some windows for a couple of hours. If your ph raises than you know that co2 is part of the problem. My tank is down in the basement with not a lot of windows. I ran a 1/4" refrigeration line over 30' from the nearest window to my skimmer. I was able to raise .15. Going to put get some houseplants. Going to add algae to refugium. Trying soda lime also. Testing to see one at a time which one will work best for consistency and highest PH.

That's good advice and thanks for the tips on the pH - I think I'd like to work on the phosphate first for now as I don't like how high it is.

1 hour ago, bler said:

IMHO, I think the first thing to consider is how is all your livestock doing?

It doesn't look like anything is too far out of whack, I'm not sure about chasing a 'perfect' pH.  Mine is running in the high 7's but was in the low 8's before the fires.. everything is still doing great and growing so I'm not going to make any major changes or try to 'fix' it.  My alk is dropping slightly but I've added a bit of livestock recently so it was to be expected and making slow minor adjustments to my 2 part dosing schedule.

Water chemistry will change, it does in nature.. I personally think keeping reefs is about managing large swings in chemistry and not overcorrecting, creating even more problems that will need to be corrected again.  Slow and steady wins the race  

https://www.melevsreef.com/articles/dont-chase-the-ph

Everyone's doing great.  Agree that chasing numbers can be dangerous - I more so started watching it once I started thinking that could be affecting phosphate.

Totally agree, whatever I do I don't want to do anything too drastically - and I'd like to stay away from chemicals as much as possible.

1 hour ago, TheClark said:

Lanthium chloride dosing into a filter sock is a good way to do a controlled lowering of phosphates.  Go very very slow though and test every day.  You can calculate how much will be removed per dose.  Rocks may re-release po4, so keep dosing until it comes down and stays down.  Then running GFO as needed is a possible long term solution.  In short, just read up on the technique if interested.  Too much to describe in one short paragraph

As far as the testing disparities, that is tough.  It is either human error (easy to do, we all do it), expired test kits, bad test kit batch (it happens).  If you have a buddy or an LFS that can do a test to compare that would help.  Then go after the kit that is giving the bad results.

Thanks - I'll look into it.  It very well could be human error 🙂, but I've tested multiple times and gotten similar results.  I hadn't thought about potentially bad kits, so I suppose that is a possibility.  Like I said, I tend to trust the Hanna - that number just seemed really high.  May be time to go for an ICP test. 

Not sure the exact type of all, but looks like a mix of Fiji, Pukani, and some that kind of has a Tonga like texture?  Also a little bit of what I would call "base" rock.

Hi all, been tracking my parameters for a few weeks, and a few things have me stumped and could use some input on.  Tank is a 40 breeder AIO with a Tunze skimmer - been running since June.  Inhabitants include pair of clowns, orchid dottyback, pistol shrimp/goby combo, and cuc.  Mixed reef.

Levels from this morning:

Salinity: 35ppt (refract)

pH: 7.72 (Apex - calibrated two weeks ago)

Ammonia: 0ppm (Red Sea)

Nitrate: Around .1ppm (Red Sea)

Phosphate: .48 (Hanna), .12 (Red Sea)

Alk: 8.2dkh (Red Sea)

Mag: 1200ppm (Red Sea)

Calc: 440ppm (Red Sea)

Questions:

1. The testing disparity between test kits for Phosphate is interesting.  I've got a Hanna checker (thanks to the raffle!), but I recently also got a red sea phosphate test kit.  I know that the Hanna is going to be the more accurate checker, but I'm surprised at the seemingly big difference between the two. 

2. The high phosphate level concerns me, but I'm not really sure the best way to lower and not "shock" the tank or introduce other issues (e.g. cyano, dinos).  I started dosing NoPox, but I stopped as I don't have a nitrate issue and I don't want to take them too low.  I picked up some Phosguard, but I'm worried it will drop levels too quickly.  I was thinking the next best option might be running some GFO?  I'm not sure what could be causing the high phosphates - I don't feel like I feed too heavily, and I do about a 10% water change weekly.  I do feed reef chili 1-2x weekly, and I sometimes mix in (sparingly) mix in some reef roids.  I did use dry rock to start the tank, but it was natural rock (vs. man made) and I "cooked" it for a few weeks initially.

3. I've been struggling with low pH, and I'm not sure exactly why.  I can't ever really get the pH higher than 7.9 or so.  The room the tank is in gets good air circulation and I've even tried keeping a window open during the day with little change.  I haven't tried taking some tank water outside and aerating to compare.  The tank isn't in a spot where I can easily run the skimmer air line outside, so I'm wondering if my next best bet is a scrubber?  I'm not really that concerned about the pH in general, but I thought I remember reading somewhere that low pH can sometimes affect phosphate levels?

4. I've been tracking my tank's weekly consumption, and typically my mag falls from 1280 (my target) to around 1200 in a week.  Alk usually drops from 8.5 (my target) to around 8.1-2.  Calc typically drops from around 450 (my target) to 430-440.  I test on Sundays and that's when I typically add BRS supplements to get the numbers up to the target.  Most of that seems like pretty typical usage, except I feel like that is a pretty decent drop in Mag.  Thoughts, or does this seem like a reasonable consumption?  I figured it could also be due to salt mix - currently am using Coralife.

Thanks for the help and input!

Look like happy clowns to me!

I'm assuming they were acting fine when you picked them up? What are you using to test for salinity/ammonia?

No chance they where they came from was running lower salinity?

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/tunze-osmolator-universal-3155-auto-top-off.html

A little pricier, but uses an optical sensor vs. float switch (has a float switch for emergency shut off).  I think you can change it to "nano" mode as well.  Been serving me well (I've also an AIO), just make sure it's not near real turbulent water or bubbles as that can impact the operation of the optical sensor.

Looks like your cycle is coming along nicely!

20 minutes ago, MReef20 said:

some use hypo salinity/copper for ich.

I guess hypo salinity isn't exactly the right term...more like lowered salinity.

I picked up a really nice clam and RBTA from Aquatic Dreams in Spokane. 

Not sure what most use, but I think it can be a pretty basic set up - hang on back filter, etc.

Really not sure what meds are typically used - some use hypo salinity/copper for ich.

On 9/17/2020 at 9:22 AM, Danielie21 said:

Since I don't have a quarantine tank setup or the equipment yet that will be taken care this weekend while there, is there anything I should look for eq wise and medicine I never used a qt in my last setup since everything i got was from other reefers.

Are you setting up the QT for fish or corals? Or are you going to set up one for each?

Welcome Bryce!  I'm in the Tri-Cities...great looking tank!  I also have a 40 breeder (AIO).

3 hours ago, Danielie21 said:

Does anyone have an online place they like and trust to order from, since the only lfs is petco im a little worried about them.

I've ordered from LiveAquaria a couple of times and have had pretty good success.

55 minutes ago, Danielie21 said:

Tomorrow ill get some salt in there and set my heater temp. I've watched a yt video about having your salinity lower and temp low to help speed up the cycles. Has anyone tried this or just normal 1.026 and 78 temp.

I'd probably just set it up as normal - 1.026 and 78, and then add a few pinches of food to get things going...but if you are wanting to move things along a little quicker, maybe add some Dr. Tim's?

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/one-only-saltwater-live-nitrifying-bacteria-dr-tims.html

Looking good btw!

1 hour ago, Danielie21 said:

I'm wondering about my lights granted I don't need them right now but whst does everyone run for temp? The Red Sea 90k has 3 options to run 15,20,23k all with some moonlight as well. I have no clue on led lights I was running t5 with daylight and blues.

IMO, 15k will probably be the most "natural" looking light, 20k will make the corals "pop," and I'm not sure about 23k, but I probably wouldn't go that blue...I'd probably start with 15k because I like the look.

I'd highly recommend a screen top...like stated above really minimizes the chances of jumping (or stuff somehow falling in).  Especially if you are considering adding certain fish such as wrasses.

Bulk Reef Supply has some good DIY kits: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/diy-aquarium-screen-top-kits-1-4-netting.html

And you can get some nice low profile clips so that the top sits flush with the tank: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/diy-aquarium-screen-top-hanging-clips-red-sea.html

Amazon variety (would have to measure glass thickness): https://www.amazon.com/Aquariums-Acrylic-Support-Holders-Universal/dp/B07WHX7SX8/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=aquarium+top+clips&qid=1599716147&sr=8-7

Looks great - love the lights! 

How do you like the Nero pumps?