Phosar Issues

[drock59]

Ive been running Warner Marine Phosar(basically same as phosban,rowaphos,etc) for a couple of weeks.

 

Ive read that using too much to start can have less than desired effects on coral. Needless to say, my Caps. look terrible and some other corals have lightened up considerably.

 

Is there any way to ease this problem without stopping the Phosar usage? How long should these symptoms last????? Looking for other people with experience using phosphate remover.

 

P.S. All other params are in order. This is the only thing I have changed in my system.

[Michael7979]

Dan, I don't know but what do you think a WC would do?

 

Probably won't do anything but it might dilute anything that might be leeching into the system from a large start up dose.

[ocboat]

I know you said that your water parameters were in line but I have read that sometimes a GFO product can cause a decline in alkalinity.

[drock59]

Params are fine. Just tested today.

 

Im planning on the WC but see how it goes. Kind of annoying...trying to help things thrive more and I end up washing everything out. :(

[impur]

Maybe its polishing the water and its now clearer, which might lead to some bleaching of corals? Just a thought.

 

I'm using phoslock and have not notice anything like what you are describing.

 

Good luck Dan.

[andy]

Here is an interesting article on GFO use.

 

From the article:

Quite a large proportion of aquarists using GFO in reef aquaria have reported undesirable effects on corals. These reported effects include tissue recession and bleaching. Many advanced aquarists have associated these effects with the first addition, or with a later change, of the GFO. While many or all of these reports may be coincidence, there are enough reports that aquarists should be wary. Listed below are a number of possibilities that may be the cause:

 

1. A sudden drop in phosphate may stress certain organisms. This stress might be particularly important to corals with algal symbionts. The level of symbionts existing in a coral may depend to some extent on the availability of nutrients. A sudden drop in nutrients may imbalance the organism, leaving it with too many zooxanthellae for the newly-reduced nutrient levels. Especially if these corals are already living on the edge of survival, such stress may tip the balance toward disease.

 

2. In some cases, phosphate levels may drop below natural seawater levels, and phosphate may become the limiting nutrient. If this limitation is severe enough, corals and other organisms using phosphate may well be stressed, stop growing, and become more susceptible to disease.

 

3. Similar effects may result from a drop in certain trace metals. Since the effects of GFO on trace elements have not been clearly established in aquaria, it is possible that one or more critical elements may drop below optimal levels.

 

4. The release of soluble iron hydroxide itself may irritate certain corals, although many aquarists dose chelated iron without such effects. The iron hydroxide may, however, nucleate the precipitation of calcium carbonate in sub-optimal places, such as tissue surfaces. It may also bind directly to tissues.

 

5. The GFO may actually release certain metals other than iron from its surface. I have not seen any data on the chemical purity of these materials, and such issues may be a concern with some or all brands.

 

6. The drop in alkalinity and/or pH caused by abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate would not be expected to be very great in most aquaria, and typically isn't especially large, as reported by the aquarists themselves. In the cases from which I've seen data, the effect is not as great as the variability between aquaria or between dosing events in many aquaria. Still, such changes might be important in some circumstances where conditions are already marginal.

 

7. Since GFO binds organic materials, the addition of a significant amount of fresh surface area may rapidly drop the dissolved organic levels. Such a drop may stress corals by rapidly increasing the available light levels, or by reducing a food source, or both.In order to minimize such difficulties, many aquarists start off using GFO more slowly than the directions might suggest. Such caution seems warranted in most cases.

 

In order to minimize such difficulties, many aquarists start off using GFO more slowly than the directions might suggest. Such caution seems warranted in most cases.

[Nyles]

As with anything you do you have to do it slowly... I started my phoslock running 1 tsp for a month, and 4 tsp carbon on my 155 gallon. Then month later doubled both, then 2 months later doubled the carbon again with no ill effects. As will anything you add or remove good or bad it should be done slowly over the course of a few days so you don't shock the corals.

[WAVES]

Im with Nyles, I think most people only have problems with GFO when they use too much at once. You can use lots, but you have to add it slowly. IMO it only effects SPS if you put a ton in all at once.

 

Id bet it will pass (the issues), but be prepared for it to occure again when you refresh the media.

[drock59]

So.....I just dumped a ton in there.

 

Obviously not the most graceful way to do it.

 

SO the question is, where do I go from here? I take a water change will not do much as the PO4 level will not change. Best bet would be to reduce the amount of media I am using then?

 

Or should I just wait it out. Most of my acros look great, but my Caps look terrible and I have one efflow that has lost a bit of flesh.

[andy]

FWIW, I filled a reactor 1/3rd full and just went with it -- no problems here, but I didn't have a PO4 problem to start with so there wasn't much of a drop possible.

[Nyles]

I tend to run it on the thin side anyhow. This is only an opinion what Im about to say and I have not experienced what you have just went through but if it was me, I would recude the media and feed a "little" heavy a couple days... then slowly start adding the media back.. (wait a few weeks)

 

I would find it hard to believe removing phosphate would have ill effects, so there is something else there that possibly "burned" the coral from not being use to it. Just take it slow and get where you need it to be. Just remember that phosban product does not need a lot to do a lot, the most I run in a few months is 4 tsp in 2 months in my 155 (about 200 gall volume) and the growth is much better than without. Use sparingly and change often (1-2 months) or use lots and change less often, but I prefer to clean it out once every couple months and refresh. 4 tsp seems to be overkill for my tank, its more of a "Extra" precaution, but I guess this depends on how loaded your food is with phos and how much food you feed and your fish load.

 

There is no right answer there without finding the sweet spot for your system.

 

I hope that helps.

[drock59]

UPDATE: i have had to stop using the Phosar as ive been losing corals and tissue left and right.

 

My gut feeling is that somehow the phosar has cleaned up my water and the light is actually burning my corals. I am reducing my photoperiod and will see what happens.

[Michael7979]

Hey Dan,

I'm sure you rinsed that stuff but check this out! From Kips website......... (for others that might be interested)http://www.kipsreef.com/forum/showthread.php?t=552

[uhuru]

I tried phosar when I had a dino outbreak, didn't do a thing for dinos but threw my ca/alk parameters out of whack and caused major lightening of coral tissue

[drock59]

another update: Ive stopped now for almost a week with no signs of things getting better.

 

I have changed about 20 gallons of water and started running carbon to try and get any remnants of the Phosar out of my system. I dont think anything is getting worse, but my green slimer lost some tips along with an efflo.

[Ron Popeil]

what do your phosphates test now?

 

im having similar problems with my corals because i cant seem to keep my phosphates down regardless of the amount of media i use. it goes down and way up on a weekly basis. i really dont believe the water clarity coral burning connection dan, it must be something else beyond the regular water parameters.

[drock59]

Well popeil, as you well know, I can test my phosphates with my salifert test until I am blue in the face and it wont tell me anything, so I dont really know what my phosphate levels are.

 

Ive also been reading about some Salifert Alk tests that were way off recently. this issue is mostly effecting Caps + 2 others corals, and I know Caps are especially susceptible to changes in Alk/low alk.

 

My plan is to buy a new alk test, change my bulbs and do some massive water changes. If that doesnt work, I am at a total loss.

[Nyles]

got my vote on water changes.

[drock59]

Ya, like I said earlier, I have been changing a lot of water but it is now time for the "SERIOUS" water change.