Overflow/GPH Help

[nanoreefer17]

Starting a new build, 26x26x18 cube and have a 24x24x16 sump built. I want to move about 1000gph I'm thinking through the sump. It will e sps dominant, and I am going pretty high end on equipment. I am thinking single drain, with a secondary emergency drain, and then a single return pump that will split into 2 pipes near the top to add more directional flow.

 

I am looking to do this DIY, and have done my last tank This way but want it to look clean and have all the pipes within the overflow drilled throuh the bottom so the cube sits flush with the wall. I am thinking 1 inch drain and 1 inch return, but am not enitely sure if this is sufficient in size. I have also seen multiple methods to minimize noise, but don't really know what's best?

 

Hope someone can help! Thanks

 

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

[nanoreefer17]

Bump for help, looks like I may just have to make a build thread!

 

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

[softy]

here is a GPH chart...

 

[Gil&Fin]

I am by no means a plumbing expert, but I've recently been researching flow rates.  What I am reading is that flow through the sump (open loop) "should" be about 3 to 5 times the tank volume in order for the filtration to do its thing, and flow in the tank (closed loop) "should" be 10 to 20 times the tank volume.  If my calculations are correct, you've got a 50 gallon tank so at 1000 gph through the sump, you are turning over the open loop 20 times per hour, which is many times more than the "recommended" flow rate.  Here are a couple of links that I was referring to.

 

http://gmacreef.com/turnover-flow-rate-through-sump-reef-tank/

 

http://www.3reef.com/threads/sump-display-turnover-rate.131332/

 

I know flow rates aren't the specific question you were asking and I don't want to hijack your thread, but I'm trying to learn.  Is there a benefit to making the flow rate in the open loop 20 times per hour rather than something significantly slower, say 5 times per hour?

[Re_Run]

you have to take in to consideration the max head on the pump,  the diameter of the return line how many kinks and bends and the fitting ball valves check valve you have to get the water into the tank etc etc etc a 1000 gallon an hour pump hard lined in with a few turns and router reduction and all of that very easily is reduced to 300 to 400 gph because of all of the above.

 

look at it this way 

you have a pump that is rated for 1000 gph that is a the out let of the pump but when you get to the 3 to 5 foot hight of the out put at the end (and this is in a straight line) it can drop to 400 600 depending on the pump and that is also assuming that the inside diameter of the line is the same reduce the inside you in crease the head high but lose water volume because of restriction,  the reverse also applies increase the inside diameter and you lose pressure and the head high is lower  which again is a loss in linera proportional,

 

so if you want a 500 gallon an hour turn over at about 4 ft high a safe rule of thumb is 3x time the water you are trying to move.

i know it sound like over kill but if its rated at 1500 at the zero inches at 48 in your down to say 1000 (this number will vary  depending on the pump)

now you have to take in to consideration the pipe if it a 3/4 opening you are upsizing the line to 1 inch so now another hit your down to 850 gph, then the splitter and now 2 more  flow directors again a hit 7oo gph +_ then you have to take in to account the the bends turn and twist around 5 or 6 you lose about 50 gph at each on so another 200 to 300 gph gone add in the extra length and your now in the 400 to 500 gph out of a 1500 gph pump.

 

he

 

this is how i decide what pump will do what i want it to you want a absolute minimum of 6 to 8 complete water change over an hour and that is with out sps corals with sps i do anywhere for 14 to 20 depending on how heavily stocked more pets more change over..

i look at the pumps the larger give you a higher head  or more wiggle room to play with find a pump that has the change over amount at your max head ie the length of the run from the pump to it out put and add 50% for plumbing to the needed size.  

 

 first lay out the pumping route you want size everything just like your going to install it.  for every fitting , curve,  turn  multiply by 50 gph average is around 5-6 so 250 to 300 GPH  now add 100 gph for every 1/4 in you have reduced or increased the line size including splitters. the will be 2 or 3 normally so now your at 450 to 600 gph save that number for later.,  the length of the run ie how long is it what your head height will be.  A pump's out flow rating is are  measured at o inches t it goes down for every inch you go up.  Most pumps for a tank your size have a max head of around 3 meters or 9 ft you at about half so aprox. a loss. of about 1/2.   Look at the chart that comes with the pump normally they will have it on the side of the box so you can check before you buy. find that point and check the out flow 1500 becomes about half so about 750 minus the amount for the plumbing and you now have an effective flow rate of 150 gph to 350 gph depends on the pump 

still with me?  now look at the pump you think you want and there you go does it match yes ding ding ding winner. to little not a winner  keep looking one other thing to keep in mind is the quality of the pump the cheap the pump normally the higher the wattage used watts= engery usage= heat and $$$ =heat transfer to your tank .

 

if you have any question please feel free to call me 971-203-1526. you can text me a pick and i can give you a better idea of what you will need.

 

hear are a  couple of tanks i've set up 

[nanoreefer17]

Probably going to be about 3ft head height, with 3-4 kinks. I wanted to,move 1000gph because it will be heavily stocked sps, and I was considering using my return for flow in the display. I would settle for 750gph, but to do that I think I need about a 12-1300 pump to be safe.

 

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

[Re_Run]

sorry was offline for a couple of days. can yo tell me what pump it is your planning on using make and model.  I'll look it up and 

get back to you whit my thoughts on it,  but that sounds about right i personally would go large then it needed restrict the flow its easier

to go down than up. were you thinking an A/C or D/C pump there are advantage to both.  Ilike a few different applications

i you want to send me a few pics of your set up as it is i would be more than happy to take a look at it and maybe do a quick sketch up of what i would do in the same system.  I think have a pic of the plumbing layout of one about the size of yours let me look not aying your would be the same just something to give you a few ideas f you want it. But think your off to what will be a great build.

[LadAShark]

I am by no means a plumbing expert, but I've recently been researching flow rates. What I am reading is that flow through the sump (open loop) "should" be about 3 to 5 times the tank volume in order for the filtration to do its thing, and flow in the tank (closed loop) "should" be 10 to 20 times the tank volume. If my calculations are correct, you've got a 50 gallon tank so at 1000 gph through the sump, you are turning over the open loop 20 times per hour, which is many times more than the "recommended" flow rate. Here are a couple of links that I was referring to.

 

http://gmacreef.com/turnover-flow-rate-through-sump-reef-tank/

 

http://www.3reef.com/threads/sump-display-turnover-rate.131332/

 

I know flow rates aren't the specific question you were asking and I don't want to hijack your thread, but I'm trying to learn. Is there a benefit to making the flow rate in the open loop 20 times per hour rather than something significantly slower, say 5 times per hour?

So the 1000 gallon tank I'm building requires 20,000 gallons per hour through the main tank? Good to know x.x

[Blackice]

4 mp60qd would work for that 1k tank.

[LadAShark]

4 mp60qd would work for that 1k tank.

http://m.marinedepot.com/products/em1237/ecotech-marine-vortech-mp60wqd-propeller-pump-w-wireless-quietdrive-driver

 

FOUR of these things? That comes to 2700 dollars! I mean, that's doable, but seems a bit exaggerated for water flow. There are 5000 GPH pumps for ponds you can easily find for like 30-40 bucks, and if those don't do, I could just get an ice eater, which is used in saltwater by oyster farmers, and in freshwater for koi ponds.

Edited June 2, 2016 by LadAShark

[LadAShark]

4 mp60qd would work for that 1k tank.

http://m.marinedepot.com/products/em1237/ecotech-marine-vortech-mp60wqd-propeller-pump-w-wireless-quietdrive-driver

 

FOUR of these things? That comes to 2700 dollars! I mean, that's doable, but seems a bit exaggerated for water flow. There are 5000 GPH pumps for ponds you can easily find for like 30-40 bucks, and if those don't do, I could just get a 370 dollar 20,000 gph pump. I'm sure there are alternatives to the mp60wqd. If a single one took care of my job I'd be ok with it, but 4 seems a bit... off.

 

Woops somehow double posted... Sorry.