Disappearances

[steelhead77]

Is it just me or have a couple threads gone missing today?

 

What's up with that?

[fpd4308]

I found that to be quite suspicious myself. Could big brother be watching for threads they dont approve of?

[Emerald525]

Missing threads appearing on a milk carton near you!

 

Awwwww geez steelhead I had my hands duct taped behind my back because I wasn't going to contribute to stirring this up. (laugh)(laugh) You guys keep tempting me.....DOH!

 

Be strong! Be strong...(scary)(scary)

 

Hmmmmm(scratch) What were the topics of those missing threads..

[grassi]

There was a topic today that needed to be discussed in the bod thread, like we usually do.

No raffle ticked were stolen neither unicorn killed during this process

It's all in the bod thread black on white for our successors. Unfortunately there is no big brother and sometimes we have to discuss things for pages and pages before to agree :(

[grassi]

The topic was about selling the raffle prices

[Emerald525]

I thought it was about Andy repeatedly selling the same clam or maybe I'm just tired or confused...

 

ah yes the case of the disappearing classified thread

[grassi]

Andy is violating the classifieds rules: you can sell an item only if you have it.

He sold 25 clams already and he only has one!

Unless he got powers and he can multiply them

[Emerald525]

Andy is violating the classifieds rules: you can sell an item only if you have it.

He sold 25 clams already and he only has one!

Unless he got powers and he can multiply them

 

Well I believe he still has it and I know he has some photoshop skills so I imagine he can make it look like 25!

 

So Andy how about that clam!

[Lowman]

None of the threads that were deleted broke any forum rules. They should not have been deleted, or moved to the BOD forum, IMHO.

[Emerald525]

Bob, I don't think the threads were deleted they were just pulled to be reviewed by the rest of the board members. While I don't personally agree with the decision to keep raffle winners from selling their won items in the classifieds, I do think it is reasonable to pull the thread for review by the rest of the board before the thread gets out of hand as it was clearly heading down that path. This way one person isn't making the decision and it gives them time to review before all the drama unfolds.

 

If this was the position of the board, I do think this should have been stated at the time of the raffle. It's also not clear to me why it is so upsetting to the sponsors for someone to sell their item they won on the classifieds particularly if it wasn't even the sponsor who donated the item.

[grassi]

I didn't say that the threads broke any rule, we just needed to discuss it in the board.

As you know some new rules, if needed, are made in this way.

The threads will be back soon or a reason for removal will be communicated soon.

 

I was kidding about the clam

[414driver]

Bob, I don't think the threads were deleted they were just pulled to be reviewed by the rest of the board members. While I don't personally agree with the decision to keep raffle winners from selling their won items in the classifieds, I do think it is reasonable to pull the thread for review by the rest of the board before the thread gets out of hand as it was clearly heading down that path. This way one person isn't making the decision and it gives them time to review before all the drama unfolds.

 

If this was the position of the board, I do think this should have been stated at the time of the raffle. It's also not clear to me why it is so upsetting to the sponsors for someone to sell their item they won on the classifieds particularly if it wasn't even the sponsor who donated the item.

 

In the famous words of the Bartels & James ads...."we appreciate your support" !

[reefboy]

key word here is "donation" not " donation with strings attached" the fact the some one would care if there "donation" is sold is pretty petty.

 

Now put thread back up and move this to it lol.

[fpd4308]

Bob, I don't think the threads were deleted they were just pulled to be reviewed by the rest of the board members. While I don't personally agree with the decision to keep raffle winners from selling their won items in the classifieds, I do think it is reasonable to pull the thread for review by the rest of the board before the thread gets out of hand as it was clearly heading down that path. This way one person isn't making the decision and it gives them time to review before all the drama unfolds.

 

If this was the position of the board, I do think this should have been stated at the time of the raffle. It's also not clear to me why it is so upsetting to the sponsors for someone to sell their item they won on the classifieds particularly if it wasn't even the sponsor who donated the item.

 

Kim I think you make some good points. It just gives me a little heartburn when someone, in a leadership role, posts a thread then closes it as soon as they don't like what the membership has to say about it. Doesn't seem very democratic! If this needed to be reviewed by the BOD then maybe that should have occurred before the leadership made an arbitrary decision and posted it. As far as the sponsors being upset, I also wonder what the complaint is. They/we donate the items to a raffle, not a giveaway. My assumption is that they are donated to the club so the club can sell raffle tickets and make money. It seems silly to try to say what a person can do with the item once they have spent money for tickets and won the item. This is the only rafffle I have ever seen where this is an issue. If it was a free giveaway or something like that I could understand but some people put a lot of money into the raffle. I understand that the club needs the sponsors and I commend all those that sponsor the club but it is the membership that really makes up this club and their opinion should not be ignored to cater to sponsors. Sponsors come and go but some of the club members have been around for a long time.

Alex I appreciate you being the one person who spoke on the board to explain what is happening with the posts, threads, ect. That is a stand up thing to do and what I would expect from the people in club leadership positions. Well Done.

[Emerald525]

Kim I think you make some good points. It just gives me a little heartburn when someone' date=' in a leadership role, posts a thread then closes it as soon as they don't like what the membership has to say about it. Doesn't seem very democratic! If this needed to be reviewed by the BOD then maybe that should have occurred before the leadership made an arbitrary decision and posted it. [/quote']

 

Doug I hear you and I didn't like that the thread was closed or moved either and that 414's classified ad was shut down when there was nothing in the forum rules and nothing stated at the raffle about selling items. However I also get to see the other side since I live with a board member and it is easier for me to give them the benefit of the doubt. I think closing the thread was more in seeing that people were getting upset and that that the drama and flaming were soon to follow and that Roy realized this should be reviewed by the other board members.

 

Being a board member can be truly a thankless and difficult job. The board members are doing this on their free time and they have work, school, families and lives outside of this forum so it's not always easy to act quickly and to respond to people's concerns quickly which I think is the rationale for sometimes making a decision quickly and then reviewing it later. Again I do not know what the best way to handle these things and am forever thankful I am not a board member!

 

As far as the sponsors being upset, I also wonder what the complaint is. They/we donate the items to a raffle, not a giveaway. My assumption is that they are donated to the club so the club can sell raffle tickets and make money. It seems silly to try to say what a person can do with the item once they have spent money for tickets and won the item. This is the only rafffle I have ever seen where this is an issue. If it was a free giveaway or something like that I could understand but some people put a lot of money into the raffle.

 

I don't understand this either Doug which is why I asked Roy this very question. When I saw the classified ad for the raffle item the thought that it was offensive was even on my radar and truly I only asked as to get more information not to stir anything up. I don't get why the sponsors care or people care. I wish a sponsor who cared would chime in but I know that's not going to happen because they are afraid they will get flamed. Is the concern that someone just got a regulator cheaply and that you lost a sale? Is it looked upon by sponsors like re gifting? I don't get why a sponsor who didn't even donate the item to begin with is upset about the item being sold because I don't think the regulator was donated by a local sponsor. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

 

 

I understand that the club needs the sponsors and I commend all those that sponsor the club but it is the membership that really makes up this club and their opinion should not be ignored to cater to sponsors. Sponsors come and go but some of the club members have been around for a long time.

Alex I appreciate you being the one person who spoke on the board to explain what is happening with the posts, threads, ect. That is a stand up thing to do and what I would expect from the people in club leadership positions. Well Done.

 

And I agree with this position as well. We have a lot of great sponsors who give a lot of support to this club and they are very much appreciated. I give those sponsors my business and plenty of it because I'm a freakin coral addict! I do feel this forum is different in that the members make this club and that we should not cater to the few sponsors who get upset with every group buy and every sale thread that a member does. As Jody said it is petty and only adds negativity and tends to pit sponsors against members. I get tired of hearing that a sponsor doesn't like that members are selling in the classifieds or they don't like the group buy that's being done so they are going to pull their membership or not going to donate anymore. I don't respond well to threats but I do like to hear the rationale and the other side.

[JasonH]

I think Kim makes some very good points. Let's all remember that the Board members have volunteered their time to help manage the forum so that we can continue to use it. They are not an evil cabal of "leadership" that are depriving us other our "rights" to use this board.

 

They were responding to a person who had a concern. I don't know whether the result was right/wrong, but the intent was reasonable. Let's give them time to discuss and try to do what is best for the club. Unless we're willing to step up and fill the positions, let's at least give them the benefit of the doubt. If nothing else, they have proven that they are willing to re-evaluate the initial decision.

 

I know it's not the same thing, but I've done one of the 'share the love's with a fairly expensive coral (red yuma) and would be very irritated if it ended up being sold*. I understand that's different - that was given away, and the restriction of selling was outlined at the beginning. I'm just saying I can see the other side of the argument.

 

(*disclaimer, was fragged and one was given to Mr. S, totally okay with that being sold to benefit the TfT program)

 

I should really just stay our of these discussions, though, I tend to get myself into trouble.

[Lowman]

The club was founded to serve MEMBERS for the betterment of the hobby, exchange of information, and to educate the public about how rewarding a hobby we are in. There was much discussion whether or not to allow sponsorships to be sold. I HATE the fact that some of the sponsors of the club hold us hostage over petty crap sometimes, like this issue. If a new person to the site was to put some stupid condition on their paying the fee, we would laugh them off the site.

 

And, while we in Salem on Sunday, a group of us visited the local stores. When asked by a paying member of the club if they honored the club discount, that member was told that no that particular store wouldn't honor the discount. [language filter]???? Why would we allow a store to get the cheap adertising they have and not hold up to their end of the sponsorship agreement.

 

I put tickets in almost all the bags at the party. If I could sell the item I won, I probably would. I really don't need another piece of recyclable paper laying around the house for my dog to chew up.

[fpd4308]

If I could sell the item I won' date=' I probably would. I really don't need another piece of recyclable paper laying around the house for my dog to chew up.[/quote']

 

That magazine looked pretty good. You can donate it to me, I promise I won't sell it....lol...btw I also noticed the hemming and hawing around about the club discount at a particular store.

[Mohaynow]

to enter a raffle for a very usefull item that some people actually need, just so you can re-sell the item is, in my opinion, in very bad taste. However I do agree that it is silly to complain about what someone is doing with their own stuff. I wonder if the sponsor's would complain if we took the donated prizes and lit them on fire?

[Emerald525]

I think Kim makes some very good points. Let's all remember that the Board members have volunteered their time to help manage the forum so that we can continue to use it. They are not an evil cabal of "leadership" that are depriving us other our "rights" to use this board.

 

I know it's not the same thing, but I've done one of the 'share the love's with a fairly expensive coral (red yuma) and would be very irritated if it ended up being sold*. I understand that's different - that was given away, and the restriction of selling was outlined at the beginning. I'm just saying I can see the other side of the argument.

 

I should really just stay our of these discussions, though, I tend to get myself into trouble.

 

No need to stay out of the discussion point well taken. Okay that makes sense to me now if you give something away and then they turn around and sell it that is a bit tacky I agree. It is taking advantage of your good will. What confused me is I don't think the sponsor who donated the regulator to begin with was the one complaining. I could be wrong but that's what my understanding was.

 

 

And, while we in Salem on Sunday, a group of us visited the local stores. When asked by a paying member of the club if they honored the club discount, that member was told that no that particular store wouldn't honor the discount. [language filter]???? Why would we allow a store to get the cheap adertising they have and not hold up to their end of the sponsorship agreement.

 

I put tickets in almost all the bags at the party. If I could sell the item I won, I probably would. I really don't need another piece of recyclable paper laying around the house for my dog to chew up.

 

What store was this Bob? I agree they should honor the discount if they are a sponsor. I honestly always forget about the discount.

 

to enter a raffle for a very usefull item that some people actually need' date=' just so you can re-sell the item is, in my opinion, in very bad taste. However I do agree that it is silly to complain about what someone is doing with their own stuff. I wonder if the sponsor's would complain if we took the donated prizes and lit them on fire?[/quote']

 

Let's find out! (clap)(clap)We need a good bonfire to get everyone out of this rainy weather downer!(rock2)(rock2) Lowman's got a magazine I hear he wants to donate to the cause!(laugh)(laugh)

 

Bonfire!!!(rock2)(rock2)

 

Disclaimer: No unicorns, pedestrians or cyclists will be harmed in this process and no pictures of guns or unicorn meat will be posted and the charred remnants of the donated items will be recycled;)

[fpd4308]

to enter a raffle for a very usefull item that some people actually need' date=' just so you can re-sell the item is, in my opinion, in very bad taste. However I do agree that it is silly to complain about what someone is doing with their own stuff. I wonder if the sponsor's would complain if we took the donated prizes and lit them on fire?[/quote']

 

I agree that to enter just to resell is bad form but we should remember that the raffle is so the club will make money. As long as they are paying for their tickets then the true goal is being met. Also we should remember that sometimes we get something, get it home and find that it does not work with our system. I know I have gotten things thinking they would work great and then had to sell them because they didn't work out.

[414driver]

I agree that to enter just to resell is bad form but we should remember that the raffle is so the club will make money. As long as they are paying for their tickets then the true goal is being met. Also we should remember that sometimes we get something' date=' get it home and find that it does not work with our system. I know I have gotten things thinking they would work great and then had to sell them because they didn't work out.[/quote']

 

Which..in my case....is exactly what happened. I thought I needed to run CO2 with my planned reactor media...then discovered...after the party and researching it further...that I didn't need it. Had I been better informed I would have told my wife not to plug that sack.

[Rick]

Has the BOD made a decision on this?

 

Is it true that the BOD pulled a classified thread where a raffle prize was put up for sale?

 

Was it due to a sponsor complaining?

 

I'm with others (which I am sure are the majority) in that I feel that each person should be allowed to do whatever they want with items they received from buying raffle tickets including selling the items. My RO/DI unit is the result of another member (BOD actually) winning a raffle and then selling it to me. I don't think there is anything wrong with doing so. With raffles in particular you take somewhat of a gamble that what you get will work out and quite often find afterwards that it isn't really what you need however it may work well for others. If they are not allowed to sell them then what is the suggested method to get them to the people that do need them? Or are they just stuck with them? Why would the BOD choose to discourage people from buying raffle tickets? Do they not realize that is what they are doing? People (myself included) will think twice about buying tickets if they might find themselves stuck with something they can't sell if it doesn't work out for them.

[fpd4308]

My RO/DI unit is the result of another member (BOD actually) winning a raffle and then selling it to me.

 

I think Rick makes a good point here. If people are allowed to sell the things here it keeps the prizes within the local community that they were donated too. Instead of going to another site and selling it there. Other members can benifit from a person winning something that didn't work out and then selling it withing our community.

[ReefSafari]

to enter a raffle for a very usefull item that some people actually need' date=' just so you can re-sell the item is, in my opinion, in very bad taste.[/quote']

 

I disagree, I don't think its in bad taste at all, its thier choice, they won the drawing...(scratch)...

 

I wasn't able to make it to the party but from what I understand, people could PURCHASE raffle tickets and put them into some container for the prizes they wished to try and win, correct?

 

Ok...If the club was raising money, heck I would buy a ticket for each thing and put one in each one, I personally didnt "NEED" anything that was listed as prizes, and if I won, SWEET! thats awsome, but if I won something that I could not use, I would sell it...plain and simple, or trade it for frags...

 

I would be looking at it as more of a way for our club to raise money, not me trying to win something I really needed or wanted to sell for dirt cheap...It makes it sound like those buying tickets where just in it to possible get something cheap to resell, I honestly don't think that is the case.....and honestly so what if it was...This should have been made clear before the tickets where sold, not after the person won it.

 

Honestly if I won the item that could not be sold, I would give it back....thats just me...I wouldn't want to deal with it...The sponsor DONATED this to the club, the club then had the choice of what to do with it, They chose to SELL tickets for a raffle, someone PURCHASED a ticket and won the item for that ticket price, that item is now 100% thier property, they should be able to do whatever they want with it.

 

I feel if the sponsor has this type of view, they should not donate to any further parties...Donations with strings attached are not donations, once the item is donated, its no longer thiers....period.

 

Just my .02....(scary)