Mandinga Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 While visiting some low tide areas off the OR coast I ran across some absolutely stunning Live Rock...encrusted with corraline algae -- sortof a light pink/purple color. The base rock appears to be volcanic in structure instead of dead coral skeleton/sand...which usually comprises the majority of the rock in our tanks. Aside from pH issues, does anyone have a reason why this rock wouldn't work in warm water? The dark color of it really is a nice contrast. Has anyone tried this before? The corraline looks stunningly similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsonmfg Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Well the first thing that comes to mind is that all the life on that live rock is going to die and become one big phosphate mess... The living organisms that are living on the rock at 50 some odd degrees is going to do nothing but die in a 75-78 degree environment. I could go over a list of other reasons it won't do well but this is the first issue... If you were building a coldwater tank than you'd be stoked to get some nice local rock with coraline on it but that's not the case... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Do you need a collection permit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowpunk Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Do you need a collection permit? I think you do for rock but I could be wrong. Their is a lot of guidelines about what can and cannot be taken from where at the coast. It would be nice if we had a basic breakdown of all these rules posted somewhere on this site for people to see. We don't have a ton of cold water tanks here but it is the prime location for collecting, and proper collecting should be the goal. I don't think they are gonna miss 20lbs though :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsonmfg Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Eventually I'll be doing a small coldwater setup, maybe Steve Weast will chime in, I'm sure he know's all the collection information... He's the man when it comes to coldwater setups. I don't see them missing 20# either... but the state might disagree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I don't think they are gonna miss 20lbs though :p That's probably true, but if everyone felt that way it wouldn't take long for the cost to suffer. Either way, if what I've heard through the grapevine is true if you get caught that'll be the most expensive piece of liverock you ever saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowpunk Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 That's probably true' date=' but if everyone felt that way it wouldn't take long for the cost to suffer. Either way, if what I've heard through the grapevine is true if you get caught that'll be the most expensive piece of liverock you ever saw.[/quote'] yep for sure, fines in marine areas are some of the highest. For the record I just meant now that he has it don't sweat it, but going about it legally is always a better way. Especially since we should be held to a little higher standard as enthusiasts of the hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandinga Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 I know you definitely can't remove rock from State Parks, hopefully someone will know if collecting from non park sites would be legal or not.(scratch) I have a OR fishing and shellfish license for 2010, but I can't find anywhere on the regs for Oregon that specify the collection of rock. Why would it be any different than collecting driftwood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Here's some info on local collection: http://www.pnwmas.org/forums/showthread.php?t=12936& http://www.pnwmas.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3720& http://www.dfw.state.or.us/MRP/shellfish/regulations.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandinga Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 just called Oregon State Dept of Fish and Wildlife...they referred me to Parks and Rec because all beaches are considered State Parks and thus regulated by Parks and Rec. I spoke with the Newport office and was told the following: "There is no collection permit for rock. The taking of rock for commercial purposes is prohibited. However, the collection of rocks or driftwood in small amounts, used for personal use is allowed." Interestingly enough, past the low tide line, there is no jurisdiction and it is not regulated. I also emailed the director to find out what it would take to get a collection permit for commercial purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandinga Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 This is from one of Andy's links...anyone can get a shellfish permit, i knew that...but I would be very curious about rock. I know the animals in the tidepools wont survive, but the corraline algae??? "Here is the full thread for my collection permit and the whole project. http://www.pnwmas.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3051 As an educator or scientist you may collect after filing a scientific collection form with ODFW. But, anyone may get a shellfish permit in the state of Oregon. If you stay out of the non-marine reserve type sites listed in the ODFW rules you can collect a limited amount of listed invertebrates per day. The tricky part is fish. All fish are more closely regulated and cannot be transported alive unless you have a sci collection permit. Salmonids are strictly enforced. Non-game species are more easily approved." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgf86123 Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I'd be interested in learning more Mandinga, do you have any pics of the rock by chance? And did you put it in your tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandinga Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 I agree that there will be alot of die off -- just like LR shipped from Tonga, Red Sea, Etc...i think it'd be safe to assume that once the stuff has died and the rock has had a chance to "cure", that the die off wouldn't happen again... It would definitely be foolish to just add it to the tank without curing it first. I am more concerned with the composition of the rock and the long term interation between seawater and basalt. from WIKI: Life on basaltic rocks The common corrosion features of underwater volcanic basalt suggest that microbial activity may play a significant role in the chemical exchange between basaltic rocks and seawater. The significant amounts of reduced iron, Fe(II), and manganese, Mn(II), present in basaltic rocks provide potential energy sources for bacteria. Recent research has shown that some Fe(II)-oxidizing bacteria cultured from iron-sulfide surfaces are also able to grow with basaltic rock as a source of Fe(II).[8] In recent work at Loihi Seamount, Fe- and Mn- oxidizing bacteria have been cultured from weathered basalts. Well the first thing that comes to mind is that all the life on that live rock is going to die and become one big phosphate mess... The living organisms that are living on the rock at 50 some odd degrees is going to do nothing but die in a 75-78 degree environment. I could go over a list of other reasons it won't do well but this is the first issue... If you were building a coldwater tank than you'd be stoked to get some nice local rock with coraline on it but that's not the case... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowpunk Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 good info, sounds like you did a little homework. That's good to know, because one day I do plan on having a cold water tank setup in my home... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnGross Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 I collected native volcanic rock to use as base rock in my tank because the rocks were neat shaped. I washed them, boiled them, and then left them in a bucket of saltwater out on the porch for awhile. I haven't had any problems with them in my tank and they are super porous. You can collect rocks on blm land as long as you don't use power equipment and the rocks are at the surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveweast Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Unless you're creating a PNW coldwater marine biotope, our local rock is a poor choice for live rock. It is heavy, non-porous, and difficult to aquascape with. The local basalt rocks are like granite-like bowling balls and provide minimal space for colonizing bacteria (hence the common use of submerged bioballs in coldwater tanks)....and no significant denitrification. Moreover, none of the sea life....including coralline....will survive in warm water. In fact, the coralline is very difficult to keep alive in a coldwater system. It is very susceptible to being over grown by nussiance algae. The rules linked in prior posts are correct....I collected my rock in about 90 ft of water off of Anacortes, Wa......and no where near a reserve. Since coldwater aquarium keeping and rock collection is such a niche activity, the rules are quite vague....or non existent. The deeper the water.....the better the coralline growth. The coralline continues to SLOWLY spread in my system. Next month, it will be time to collect rock again....as I'm upgrading my small cold system to 400 gals. It's no easy feat....you need a chase boat....lift bags.....lots of air....coolers.....and strong arms on the boat. A single 12 inch rock can weigh 25 lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandinga Posted March 24, 2010 Author Share Posted March 24, 2010 Great info there Steve! Good luck with the new tank, and rock gathering... it sounds fascinating. I agree with you that the Basalt is heavy, non porous, and generally not great for harvesting beneficial bacteria. I have introduced about 20 lbs into a LR tank at home. It is day 4 and the corraline already appears to be partially taken over by diatoms. At this rate, I doubt there will be much left after a month... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsonmfg Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Unless you're creating a PNW coldwater marine biotope, our local rock is a poor choice for live rock. It is heavy, non-porous, and difficult to aquascape with. The local basalt rocks are like granite-like bowling balls and provide minimal space for colonizing bacteria (hence the common use of submerged bioballs in coldwater tanks)....and no significant denitrification. Moreover, none of the sea life....including coralline....will survive in warm water. In fact, the coralline is very difficult to keep alive in a coldwater system. It is very susceptible to being over grown by nussiance algae. The rules linked in prior posts are correct....I collected my rock in about 90 ft of water off of Anacortes, Wa......and no where near a reserve. Since coldwater aquarium keeping and rock collection is such a niche activity, the rules are quite vague....or non existent. The deeper the water.....the better the coralline growth. The coralline continues to SLOWLY spread in my system. Next month, it will be time to collect rock again....as I'm upgrading my small cold system to 400 gals. It's no easy feat....you need a chase boat....lift bags.....lots of air....coolers.....and strong arms on the boat. A single 12 inch rock can weigh 25 lbs. Glad you chimed in Steve! Eventually I'll be picking your brain for coldwater advice once I'm ready to start a coldwater cube. I was picking up another tank from James the other day and he mentioned that you were coming in later that day to talk tanks... Figured you had some bigger plans now that your back. 400 gallons of coldwater should be pretty sweet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikep503 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I have had live rock with anemones from the Oregon coast with great success. With slow acclimation I had no troubles keeping the anemones alive for over a year and noticed no real difference in tank parameters.(popcorn) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berger9953 Posted March 27, 2010 Share Posted March 27, 2010 I just came back from the Bandon Dunes area, and I was going to pick up some rock, good thing i forgot!!! I didn't know it was illegal!!DOH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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